FBP EFA positions and issues

The most problematic thing being the stug vs the new Jackson, something you didn't bring up because I suspect you haven't even played the FBP.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/62683/fbp-update-v1-2/post/624817

Thanks for the trust bro

Other stuff

I´m fine with your opinions, I don´t agree with them however. As for your remark on repeating the stug nerfs, they are a central theme in the now enlarged Ostheer problem. Tier 3 and Tier 4 have been nerfed. Tier 3 is the crutch and the Stug is the crutch of tier 3. If you can´t see the rising problem, along with the Jackson shitting on the entirety of tier 3 now, then I don´t know what to say.

I didn´t say anything related to the SU85 not being fine. I made a point for the ISU152 and the IS2. The only point I make for the T34/76s is that, although it is cheap and reliable for a 80 fuel vehicle, it enhances the reliance on doctrinal vehicle because it lacks any kind of late game capability.

Oh yes.

Bulletins are unneeded aswell, if you know what you're doing.

Yeah I feel the same. Suppression bulletin might be bugged according to MR Smith, so he claims Maxim is fine now in FBP.

I Agree with what you're saying, but I feel the t34/76 is not as bad as you think. You can get 3 for not much more fuel than a tiger and they're on the field much earlier. working together and well handled they singlehandedly win games. I agree with the price increase, maybe 90fu/270mp

I Agree with what you're saying, but I feel the t34/76 is not as bad as you think. You can get 3 for not much more fuel than a tiger and they're on the field much earlier. working together and well handled they singlehandedly win games. I agree with the price increase, maybe 90fu/270mp

Hm good points. Perhaps my views on the T34/76s are indeed wrong.

I do like to think that the Call-In fixes will help to alleviate the OST Panzer IV/ Tier 4 problem to a degree since the worst offenders that crap on the PZ4 will be locked behind tech as will the heavy call-ins which most affect the nerfed StuG. Theoretically if you know your opponent is stalling for those then you can tech past Tier 3 into Tier 4 with the 50-70 "extra" fuel you get from the new Price Premium if they opt for a no-tech call-in. I think Mr. Smith has hinted that either the StuG nerf is getting rolled back a bit or Panther will enter scope as well too. Not sure how the buffed Jackson will enter into the equation though and I do tend to agree that OST still needs more help with Tier 4 viability overall.

Soviet-wise I don't really agree aside from the obvious fact that Conscripts do need fixed. I haven't tried the 1.2 version yet but the 1.1 ISU-152 is a lot easier to use now and I find the live version IS2 to be very useful as a heavy hitting spearhead with its KT levels of armor. Stock Soviet T3 and T4 is pretty balanced - rushed T34/76 Spam can be effective or not (if you fail to achieve critical mass and find yourself on the wrong end of a KT). Likewise SU-76 spam can be effective in bottleneck situations or complete shit when they get easily blitzed around or lol-circle strafed by a lowly 222. Soviets are also getting many underappreciated buffs in the FBP.

What the Ostheer Panther needs is the OKW Panthers stats.

With the ability to fight off infantry somewhat reliable due to better MGs I think it can farm enough vet to become relevant soon enough.

I do like to think that the Call-In fixes will help to alleviate the OST Panzer IV/ Tier 4 problem to a degree since the worst offenders that crap on the PZ4 will be locked behind tech as will the heavy call-ins which most affect the nerfed StuG. Theoretically if you know your opponent is stalling for those then you can tech past Tier 3 into Tier 4 with the 50-70 "extra" fuel you get from the new Price Premium if they opt for a no-tech call-in. I think Mr. Smith has hinted that either the StuG nerf is getting rolled back a bit or Panther will enter scope as well too. Not sure how the buffed Jackson will enter into the equation though and I do tend to agree that OST still needs more help with Tier 4 viability overall.

Soviet-wise I don't really agree aside from the obvious fact that Conscripts do need fixed. I haven't tried the 1.2 version yet but the 1.1 ISU-152 is a lot easier to use now and I find the live version IS2 to be very useful as a heavy hitting spearhead with its KT levels of armor. Stock Soviet T3 and T4 is pretty balanced - rushed T34/76 Spam can be effective or not (if you fail to achieve critical mass and find yourself on the wrong end of a KT). Likewise SU-76 spam can be effective in bottleneck situations or complete shit when they get easily blitzed around or lol-circle strafed by a lowly 222. Soviets are also getting many underappreciated buffs in the FBP.

Good points, good points indeed.

I do like to think that the Call-In fixes will help to alleviate the OST Panzer IV/ Tier 4 problem to a degree since the worst offenders that crap on the PZ4 will be locked behind tech as will the heavy call-ins which most affect the nerfed StuG. Theoretically if you know your opponent is stalling for those then you can tech past Tier 3 into Tier 4 with the 50-70 "extra" fuel you get from the new Price Premium if they opt for a no-tech call-in. I think Mr. Smith has hinted that either the StuG nerf is getting rolled back a bit or Panther will enter scope as well too. Not sure how the buffed Jackson will enter into the equation though and I do tend to agree that OST still needs more help with Tier 4 viability overall.

Soviet-wise I don't really agree aside from the obvious fact that Conscripts do need fixed. I haven't tried the 1.2 version yet but the 1.1 ISU-152 is a lot easier to use now and I find the live version IS2 to be very useful as a heavy hitting spearhead with its KT levels of armor. Stock Soviet T3 and T4 is pretty balanced - rushed T34/76 Spam can be effective or not (if you fail to achieve critical mass and find yourself on the wrong end of a KT). Likewise SU-76 spam can be effective in bottleneck situations or complete shit when they get easily blitzed around or lol-circle strafed by a lowly 222. Soviets are also getting many underappreciated buffs in the FBP.

One of the problems with ost t4 is that there's not a lot of incentive to build it. The panther is just decent, a little lackluster, especially in comparison to stug spam, and the pwerfer and brummbar are useful but not that useful in 1v1s.

One of the problems with ost t4 is that there's not a lot of incentive to build it. The panther is just decent, a little lackluster, especially in comparison to stug spam, and the pwerfer and brummbar are useful but not that useful in 1v1s.

Pretty much yeah - currently StuG spam is almost always better. Assuming the StuG nerf goes into effect then you'll have incentives to build the Panther more as StuGs will actually struggle somewhat against heavy tanks and to a lesser extent advanced mediums. That and the fact you won't get punished by call-in spam for investing a million fuel into T4 only to end up out numbered like you do now.

But otherwise yeah - you never really *need* Panzerwerfer because mortars do just fine for indirect fire and Brummbar is too expensive to go for first unless you want to rely solely on AT Guns and Shreks for AT. Which is a shame because it's actually really good but not realistic to go for at all in a competitive match so any incentive to build it is way outweighed by the risk you take in getting crushed by medium vehicle swarms.

I like it, but it is also tricky. This would mean that t1 has suppression, at and ai (penals) and a mobile platform (m3). Why get t2? You can then cruise your way into tier 3 and up.

Also as far as I know, the maxim suppression bulletin might be bugged, thus making the maxim way better than it actually is. Don't know if it needs further nerfs. It is so useless in live version..

i still would buy T2 for the at-gun, the mortar (a bit lame),sniper. T2 still strong.

T1+T2 still good.

i still would buy T2 for the at-gun, the mortar (a bit lame),sniper. T2 still strong.

T1+T2 still good.

Perhaps in a 3v3 or 4v4, but not in a 1v1. But I really like the idea man. Great one!

It's a small grievance but I agree with OP that Soviet heavies are in a pretty bad state.

Individual problems: the ISU-152 being really underwhelming for its cost. At least it isn't totally defeated by tiny changes in elevation with the FBP patch but it just doesn't ever feel worth the investment. If I want to break up pakwalls/wipe squads or blobs I'd buy 1-2 Katyusha to do the same thing for much less cost and without requiring LoS. The incredibly slow RoF means it doesn't perform at all in a tank-busting role either. You'd expect it to hit super hard if it fires every ten years but it often bounces on anything above a p4 and doesn't deal that much damage when it pens. I feel it's very overshadowed by the IS-2 which does pretty much anything the ISU-152 does while having a turret and not having to switch shells either.

The KV-2 feels like a 230 fuel Brummbar with a lower RoF, worse accuracy, and worse mobility. It becomes a lot better when immobilized but this doesn't really make up for it's mediocrity in normal mode as this makes it incredibly vulnerable to almost any offmap, let alone the JU87. I know the JU87 being stronk is another thread, but regardless of how strong the JU87 is, the time required to get out of immobilization and naturally sluggish movement of the KV-2 means it will take an incredible amount of damage. And while the JU87 is the most extreme example, the time required to switch modes means even most normal artillery offmaps can seriously cripple a KV-2 with no chance to dodge it.

The KV-1 as OP mentioned is hardly used because it also doesn't feel up to the cost. The KV-8 feels good to use because it actually is very strong against infantry and team weapons, so it being a slow damage soak fits with its role, like a turreted Crocodile. The KV-1 hits anything like a wet noodle while handing out veterancy to enemy tanks. And it's impossible to use as a damage soaker for SU85s or some playstyle like that because of repair times, although that's a more general problem.

All the Soviet heavies suffer from pretty dumb veterancy, especially Vet 1. Besides Tracking, which does make sense for the ISU-152, all the Secure Modes on the KVs and IS2 make little sense. There might be that one case where you don't have any infantry to cap a VP and you must absolutely cap it right then and the KV is the only thing there... but I'd much rather have a Vet 1 ability that's incredibly useful in all kinds of situations, like Blitz. The KV-1 hulldown is a nice start but I really wish for something better for the other KVs and IS2.

I don't understand the fascination with vet1 abilities and would much prefer that vet level 1-3 all provide a passive bonus to combat or survivability. Squeezing vet bonuses into two levels of vet I think makes for too sharp a curve for balancing.

I don't understand the fascination with vet1 abilities and would much prefer that vet level 1-3 all provide a passive bonus to combat or survivability. Squeezing vet bonuses into two levels of vet I think makes for too sharp a curve for balancing.

Me neither but every single EFA unit has an (often uninspired) vet1 ability so I guess that's just the way they designed vet to work at first and scrapped it for some units un WFA and brits. In coh1 IIRC wehr infantry and support vet1 was just passive health regen, no combat bonuses.

It's a small grievance but I agree with OP that Soviet heavies are in a pretty bad state.

I couldnt put it better myself. The problem is that soviet heavies besides is2 are bad at what they're supposed to do. ISU 152 is bad at being a heavy TD. Its not on par with Ele or JGDT. KV-1 was supposed to be a meatshield but health wise its on panther level which is joke. KV-2 is a monstrocity without a purpose. KV-8 is made of plastic.

But that capping points on tanks is like the most retarded ability ever. I would like to meet the guy that came up with this bullshit idea. Axis tanks get blitzkrieg which combined with their natural tankiness and panzer tactician makes them unkillable.

KV-1 was supposed to be a meatshield but health wise its on panther level which is joke.

Makes sense for balance reasons as it is "only" 145fu, and its armor is on par with a Tiger's, even better if you stack the armor bulletins. I would love a costlier but actually meaty KV-1, but I think it doesn't really change the fact that CE repair speed means your KV-1 will spending the majority of the match sitting in base repairing.

Makes sense for balance reasons as it is "only" 145fu, and its armor is on par with a Tiger's, even better if you stack the armor bulletins. I would love a costlier but actually meaty KV-1, but I think it doesn't really change the fact that CE repair speed means your KV-1 will spending the majority of the match sitting in base repairing.

Meh. Meat shields tanks are kind of a joke, as all they are are veterancy vending machines for at, and I see no reason to use them over spotting infantry with snares to shield for your tanks, especially since most of them are pretty toothless for tanks that can't flank. I can't remember the last time I saw a kv-1 or normal Churchill.

Meh. Meat shields tanks are kind of a joke, as all they are are veterancy vending machines for at, and I see no reason to use them over spotting infantry with snares to shield for your tanks, especially since most of them are pretty toothless for tanks that can't flank. I can't remember the last time I saw a kv-1 or normal Churchill.

The KV-1 is a useless pseudo heavy tank that has 800 hp and has lackluster performance.

Btw a fun fact about unit design and its realism in comparison to ww2 facts is that before the german invasion of the soviet union german main tank was panzer IV. It was after the pIVs clashed with newly manufactured t34s that they found out that pIV are inferior to t34 in almost every way. They couldnt even penetrate its armor because it was sloped. Based on t34 germany designed panther and tiger tank was supposed to match KV1s armor because KV1 unkillable for german tanks before that. So much for historical accuracy. Soviet tanks were actually on par or sometimes superior to german tanks while also being cheaper. To counter panthers and tigers soviets designed t34/85 which had all the cons of t34/76 like its mobility but was far better armored. It had a stronger gun which made it able to take head on german tanks being the best allied tank at that time.

Btw a fun fact about unit design and its realism in comparison to ww2 facts is that before the german invasion of the soviet union german main tank was panzer IV. It was after the pIVs clashed with newly manufactured t34s that they found out that pIV are inferior to t34 in almost every way. They couldnt even penetrate its armor because it was sloped. Based on t34 germany designed panther and tiger tank was supposed to match KV1s armor because KV1 unkillable for german tanks before that. So much for historical accuracy. Soviet tanks were actually on par or sometimes superior to german tanks while also being cheaper. To counter panthers and tigers soviets designed t34/85 which had all the cons of t34/76 like its mobility but was far better armored. It had a stronger gun which made it able to take head german tanks being the best allied tank at that time.

Fun fact: they didnt have radios (only command tank), bad optics, very cramped vehicle interior (due sloped armour btw)(=bad reloading time,especially if the upper ammo is empty and they need to reach the bottom of the tank for new ammo + 1 penetrating hit nd atleast 2 crew members are dead, (very)bad trained crews and a huge variance of Quality for the used materials.
So yes coh does not really represent units historically, i still dont get Your point.