My FBP Suggestions & things that surprise me

About FBP: I think the Tiger Ace fuel cost change is great. It shouldn't cost only manpower. However the 8 min resources penalty doesn't seem much to me. I think this should be at least 13 min if not more.

About other things.
Why does the British UC only cost 260 manpower? Why does it take 3 fausts to go down?
Why does the soviet scout car cost 190 manpower and 15 fuel? Why does it take 1 faust (and a few shots) to go down?

This doesn't seem fair to me at all, i think the UC should be more expensive at least.


Now about something else, and i wonder why nobody has started crying about this yet tbh
Don't you think the sturmtiger deserves a nerf or at least a change? It's a pretty silent insta squad AND tank wiper. Yes a blob deserves to be punished. But the sturmtiger can also just pick of squads one by one without the owner of those squads can do anything about it. It seems ridicilus to, but maybe that's just my opinion.

Maybe luchs should be a bit more expensive as well? It costs 115 fuel to make a luchs. To make a t-70 it costs about 160 fuel and to make a stuart costs 130 fuel. Idk about aec, but as i believe that comes rather quick too but at least it isn't such a good anti infantry tank. Making the luchs a bit more expensive would seem only fair to me.


If something else comes to my mind during the FBP patches or other games i see, i'll post here in the OP and post a new reply.
Do with this what you want, these things are just something i think really should be changed and maybe we can discuss options?

imo the most OP thing about the sturmtiger is that it can literally shoot through anything. Meaning if the map if garrison or forest based you will often never see it coming. The ability it has to wipe ect I don't think is that bad because it's slow, takes a full minute (and is immobile) to reload and requires the opponent to not be looking to be fully effective. A cost increase however, would not go amiss.

imo the most OP thing about the sturmtiger is that it can literally shoot through anything. Meaning if the map if garrison or forest based you will often never see it coming. The ability it has to wipe ect I don't think is that bad because it's slow, takes a full minute (and is immobile) to reload and requires the opponent to not be looking to be fully effective. A cost increase however, would not go amiss.

It's pretty silent and has a pretty good range which means it can shoot from the fog of war. This means that it doesnt even need to require your opponent not looking. Reload time doesn't matter, you can't replace vet 3 squads with vet 0 squads against vet 5 stg's volks.

One of the biggest issues is its range. I don't think it should be able to fire from beyond most units line of sight.

It's pretty silent and has a pretty good range which means it can shoot from the fog of war. This means that it doesnt even need to require your opponent not looking. Reload time doesn't matter, you can't replace vet 3 squads with vet 0 squads against vet 5 stg's volks.

You have a point, but how do you fix it without making it no longer worth the effort of saving up for? tbh it's whole premise was poorly thought out when it was originally designed by relic. Also I have a question. Out of curiosity how many times have you seen a sturmtiger that is higher than vet 3?

Sturm tiger shouldn't be able too shot thro things. when it comes to the luchs, yeah the cost looks cheap but for me the most important thing is the timing. Doesn't it come around the same time as t70/stuart etc. If you increase it, its going to be coming far too late.

UC just should be a little bit more venerable to small arms fire

All excellent points - if anything UC can go the Kubel route and be less tanky so that it can't soak up a ton of small arms fire without going down (at the very least it would force you to blow munitions early on for self repair).

The other thing I'd love to see added is a buff to Guards... they were so overnerfed last patch and for their now more expensive cost they barely hold their own against LMG Grens nevermind other elite infantry.

The only other no-brainer things I'd like to see added are the buffs to orphan doctrinal units like Greyhound and Soviet Light AT Gun...

About FBP: I think the Tiger Ace fuel cost change is great. It shouldn't cost only manpower. However the 8 min resources penalty doesn't seem much to me. I think this should be at least 13 min if not more.

I haven't done the numbers, but you're still paying a lot of resources for the Tiger Ace, on top of not being able to call a 2nd one. The resource penalty duration is adjustable, of course!

About other things.
Why does the British UC only cost 260 manpower? Why does it take 3 fausts to go down?
Why does the soviet scout car cost 190 manpower and 15 fuel? Why does it take 1 faust (and a few shots) to go down?

This doesn't seem fair to me at all, i think the UC should be more expensive at least.

Technically, the UC is supposed to be the only mobile anti-garrison tool. Thus, the best fit for this unit is an easy-come easy-go unit. That means less manpower cost and less durability, and some fuel cost added. With the Pathing, the unit will already be stronger.

Even in the revamp mod, I don't feel we've figured out the unit properly (it's currently too strong there).

Now about something else, and i wonder why nobody has started crying about this yet tbh
Don't you think the sturmtiger deserves a nerf or at least a change? It's a pretty silent insta squad AND tank wiper. Yes a blob deserves to be punished. But the sturmtiger can also just pick of squads one by one without the owner of those squads can do anything about it. It seems ridicilus to, but maybe that's just my opinion.

Scope works by adjusting the extreme outliers (usually nerfing, rather than buffing), and knowingly ignoring the obvious commer-ups. Everybody is already queueing with the Elite Armour commander in their loadouts. Is there somebody on this forum that can't see the Sturmtiger meta coming in teamgames after the patch hits (similar to how we got DSHK meta after Maxim nerfs)?

Maybe luchs should be a bit more expensive as well? It costs 115 fuel to make a luchs. To make a t-70 it costs about 160 fuel and to make a stuart costs 130 fuel. Idk about aec, but as i believe that comes rather quick too but at least it isn't such a good anti infantry tank. Making the luchs a bit more expensive would seem only fair to me.

The Luchs costs 60FU, which is fair given that that generalist T-70, with way more utility costs 70FU. With respect to timing, it should come out earlier than the generalist beasts, otherwise why bother? You're never going to build a Luchs at the same time that a T-70 is out.

That's because you need something to kill the T-70, and now you also need to keep the Luchs safe?

The biggest offending things for the Luchs are:
- The near-absence of moving penalties for scatter
- The fact that it never misses vs non-infantry, even when moving

That means you can use your cheap early luchs to kill off all ultra-light vehicles, no sweat, and then chase after retreating infantry.

The biggest offenders for the Luchs rush are:
- Repair speed insanity
- lava nades
- the insane scaling of Volks which comes after the Luchs rush
- Poor AT options for Soviets/UKF (PIATs should get a range increase, and PTRS should get a responsiveness fix)

If you fix those issues, the tier remains an effective shock tier to complement the more conservative MedHQ tier. If MechHQ doesn't offer efficient light vehicles early enough, it just won't get built ever.

I agree that the ST shouldn't be able to shoot through multiple houses/obstructions.

It should be able to shoot through 1 house at a time, etc

If you don't see it, than it doesn't see you as well. Also, the commander is easily noticeable that it's been picked, meaning if you haven't seen any ability used from any other commander than chances are he went ST, and it's LOUD AS Hell, not quiet.

Allies have plenty of units/abilities for scouting.

It's a unit that requires prediction, timing.

On the other note a buff to the commander ability could be useful.

As for the light vehicles, I mean is it okay for allies to have a fast light tank/light vehicle, yet people bitch about libel wagens/luche.

Soviet m3 eat kubels/ and they can cause serious bleed if well micro, plus they come out fast.

UCs come out fast as well and can cause MP bleed.

Luches/kubels are one of the few viable light vehicles that can cause a shock if the opponent isn't ready for em, but because the Allied player has to adjust to it it's a problem. When 9/10 games the axis player is adjusting to the allied strategy

You have a point, but how do you fix it without making it no longer worth the effort of saving up for? tbh it's whole premise was poorly thought out when it was originally designed by relic. Also I have a question. Out of curiosity how many times have you seen a sturmtiger that is higher than vet 3?

It doesn't vet fast. You can have 40 kills with it and still not be vet 2 (ive tested it). But it vet doesn't matter. It's the fact that you can one shot vet 3 squads with it which you can't replace bcs you will get shred to pieces :/

Sturm tiger shouldn't be able too shot thro things. when it comes to the luchs, yeah the cost looks cheap but for me the most important thing is the timing. Doesn't it come around the same time as t70/stuart etc. If you increase it, its going to be coming far too late.

UC just should be a little bit more venerable to small arms fire

In all my games i play, stuart and t-70 come at least 3 min later then luchs ^^

I haven't done the numbers, but you're still paying a lot of resources for the Tiger Ace, on top of not being able to call a 2nd one. The resource penalty duration is adjustable, of course!



Technically, the UC is supposed to be the only mobile anti-garrison tool. Thus, the best fit for this unit is an easy-come easy-go unit. That means less manpower cost and less durability, and some fuel cost added. With the Pathing, the unit will already be stronger.

Even in the revamp mod, I don't feel we've figured out the unit properly (it's currently too strong there).



Scope works by adjusting the extreme outliers (usually nerfing, rather than buffing), and knowingly ignoring the obvious commer-ups. Everybody is already queueing with the Elite Armour commander in their loadouts. Is there somebody on this forum that can't see the Sturmtiger meta coming in teamgames after the patch hits (similar to how we got DSHK meta after Maxim nerfs)?



The Luchs costs 60FU, which is fair given that that generalist T-70, with way more utility costs 70FU. With respect to timing, it should come out earlier than the generalist beasts, otherwise why bother? You're never going to build a Luchs at the same time that a T-70 is out.

That's because you need something to kill the T-70, and now you also need to keep the Luchs safe?

The biggest offending things for the Luchs are:
- The near-absence of moving penalties for scatter
- The fact that it never misses vs non-infantry, even when moving

That means you can use your cheap early luchs to kill off all ultra-light vehicles, no sweat, and then chase after retreating infantry.

The biggest offenders for the Luchs rush are:
- Repair speed insanity
- lava nades
- the insane scaling of Volks which comes after the Luchs rush
- Poor AT options for Soviets/UKF (PIATs should get a range increase, and PTRS should get a responsiveness fix)

If you fix those issues, the tier remains an effective shock tier to complement the more conservative MedHQ tier. If MechHQ doesn't offer efficient light vehicles early enough, it just won't get built ever.

The thing is that the luchs is well supported. You have fausts from volks and a raketenwerfer to protect the luchs from the t-70. The t-70 however doesn't have at backing him up and doesn't have fausts backing him up. Luchs still penetrates t-70 and with all it's support it will easy win the fight.
Imo it doesn't matter the luchs is less at then t-70 and stuart. It will still be worth it if it's a bit more expensive if you support it well like you always do.

It's difficult to fix these things yes i know, but after the patch okw will remain op and i just don't want us to fall into another axis op year like we just had for 1.5 years with allies

Yeah, Sturmtiger is annoying as hell. Not only can it wipe infantry out of nowhere, but also medium tanks.
I had it so often, that my tank got stuck or tried to rotate around something because of the wonderful pathing and then there is no escape from the mighty stumtiger shell. Sturmtiger can almost one shot a Comet and that's just ridiculous. And don't forget how freaking cheap it is.

The thing is that the luchs is well supported. You have fausts from volks and a raketenwerfer to protect the luchs from the t-70. The t-70 however doesn't have at backing him up and doesn't have fausts backing him up. Luchs still penetrates t-70 and with all it's support it will easy win the fight.
Imo it doesn't matter the luchs is less at then t-70 and stuart. It will still be worth it if it's a bit more expensive if you support it well like you always do.

If PTRS had a decent reaction time, you would be able to at least use them vs the Luchs. Also, if the Luchs didn't hit every single hot, it wouldn't be as good vs vehicles, as you can't really stop-shot with long bursts.

WFA teching is already non-sensical enough with uber-expensive support weapons and stuff that you only build once per game. A better fix is increasing the teching cost, rather than the unit cost (which also affects late-game and replace-ability).

However, for Luchs, it's mostly a lack of counters (handheld AT, and conscripts sucking), and those accuracy issues we missed while making WBP.

It's difficult to fix these things yes i know, but after the patch okw will remain op and i just don't want us to fall into another axis op year like we just had for 1.5 years with allies

I don't know how the decision-making works up there at Relic, however you have to take it up to them Hopefully, with the Ardennes Assault fixed, we will be able to patch the game more frequently.

Yeah, Sturmtiger is annoying as hell. Not only can it wipe infantry out of nowhere, but also medium tanks.
I had it so often, that my tank got stuck or tried to rotate around something because of the wonderful pathing and then there is no escape from the mighty stumtiger shell. Sturmtiger can almost one shot a Comet and that's just ridiculous. And don't forget how freaking cheap it is.

If I were to correct you, I would say it one-shots everything. If you're not too unlucky, the Sturmtiger will apply the beautiful permanent immobilize critical, and good luck getting that tank moving after that.

For people that complain they can't vet their Sturmtigers, you aren't aiming them at the right targets.

Might I add the Soviet mortar still being utter shit?

I agree that the ST shouldn't be able to shoot through multiple houses/obstructions.

It should be able to shoot through 1 house at a time, etc

If you don't see it, than it doesn't see you as well. Also, the commander is easily noticeable that it's been picked, meaning if you haven't seen any ability used from any other commander than chances are he went ST, and it's LOUD AS Hell, not quiet.

Allies have plenty of units/abilities for scouting.

It's a unit that requires prediction, timing.

On the other note a buff to the commander ability could be useful.

As for the light vehicles, I mean is it okay for allies to have a fast light tank/light vehicle, yet people bitch about libel wagens/luche.

Soviet m3 eat kubels/ and they can cause serious bleed if well micro, plus they come out fast.

UCs come out fast as well and can cause MP bleed.

Luches/kubels are one of the few viable light vehicles that can cause a shock if the opponent isn't ready for em, but because the Allied player has to adjust to it it's a problem. When 9/10 games the axis player is adjusting to the allied strategy

If you cap a point the sturmtiger knows you are there. However you don't know the sturmtiger is there.

Axis have plenty of abilities to scout 2.

A buff?! You crazy?

Allies light vehicles don't come fast ^^

The allied player has to adjust to them, how? Being forced to callin guards or a small at gun?

"When 9/10 games the axis player is adjusting to the allied strategy"
Dude ^^ , 3-4 volk, one kubel, luchs, raketen, mg, command panther. I'm sorry but okw never needs to adjust to the allied strategy

If you cap a point the sturmtiger knows you are there. However you don't know the sturmtiger is there.

Axis have plenty of abilities to scout 2.

A buff?! You crazy?

Allies light vehicles don't come fast ^^

The allied player has to adjust to them, how? Being forced to callin guards or a small at gun?

"When 9/10 games the axis player is adjusting to the allied strategy"
Dude ^^ , 3-4 volk, one kubel, luchs, raketen, mg, command panther. I'm sorry but okw never needs to adjust to the allied strategy

A buff to the tank commander ability with its poor ass adjustment to the site range as well as the artillery that comes a minute later.

Thanks buddy not not everyone plays OKW. And what? You expect to see something different then penal spam? Riflemen LMG blobb? You expect to see something different than a fast T70? Stewart?? Don't cherry pick here.

I prefer OH over OKW any day. But being forced into building tier 2 every game for an AT gun isn't fun to fend off light tanks.

A buff to the tank commander ability with its poor ass adjustment to the site range as well as the artillery that comes a minute later.

Thanks buddy not not everyone plays OKW. And what? You expect to see something different then penal spam? Riflemen LMG blobb? You expect to see something different than a fast T70? Stewart?? Don't cherry pick here.

I prefer OH over OKW any day. But being forced into building tier 2 every game for an AT gun isn't fun to fend off light tanks.

You don't have to go luchs, tier 1 is just as good but you don't have a light vehicle but you can do without it.

I think you misunderstand me or i misunderstand you. There is no fast t70 as soviet against okw. You have to be a noob to fuck up your early game as soviet against okw or you are playing against luvnest or devm. Penal spam is fine by me, easy to counter. Rifle lmg blob? Wait till you get to see my vet 5 stgs volks, they out gun you on every range

I'm not chery picking anything and nothing is forcing okw to play tier 2, you can easily survive without tier 2. The thing is that IF you go tier 2 against soviets it's very, very hard to beat the okw player for the soviet player.
I'm trying to get balanced factions here, and atm OKW is the most op faction so i'm trying to see where the problem lays and i think it lays with tier 2 and volks. 2 core things of OKW.

If you cap a point the sturmtiger knows you are there. However you don't know the sturmtiger is there.

Axis have plenty of abilities to scout 2.

A buff?! You crazy?

Allies light vehicles don't come fast ^^

The allied player has to adjust to them, how? Being forced to callin guards or a small at gun?

"When 9/10 games the axis player is adjusting to the allied strategy"
Dude ^^ , 3-4 volk, one kubel, luchs, raketen, mg, command panther. I'm sorry but okw never needs to adjust to the allied strategy

I admire your zeal for trying to talk some sense into those guys but believe me no one here is intrested in balancing the game. Axis have tons of 1v1 unit advantages, require less side techs, have more blob friendly units, less micro heavy units (due to tankiness), superior quality units for the same price, tiers allow for more diversity and versatility, have better unit compositions, less rely on a specific doctrine.

But people here love to argue and they will always find an argument that for this or that reason things should stay the same. If you're an axis only player (like intelligence209 here) then ofcourse nothing should ever change because otherwise these brainless friendly factions might stop being so retard friendly. Btw in another topic Im trying to convince people about the obvious fact that conscripts need rebalancing or price adjustment. But I still encounter trolls that try to defend the status quo even saying that soviets dont need main infantry to be balanced. Basically I regret ever buying this game.

You don't have to go luchs, tier 1 is just as good but you don't have a light vehicle but you can do without it.

I think you misunderstand me or i misunderstand you. There is no fast t70 as soviet against okw. You have to be a noob to fuck up your early game as soviet against okw or you are playing against luvnest or devm. Penal spam is fine by me, easy to counter. Rifle lmg blob? Wait till you get to see my vet 5 stgs volks, they out gun you on every range

I'm not chery picking anything and nothing is forcing okw to play tier 2, you can easily survive without tier 2. The thing is that IF you go tier 2 against soviets it's very, very hard to beat the okw player for the soviet player.
I'm trying to get balanced factions here, and atm OKW is the most op faction so i'm trying to see where the problem lays and i think it lays with tier 2 and volks. 2 core things of OKW.

rifle lmg beat vet 5 stg volks, wut u on about mate. Though i do think volks needs nerf for the sake of cons, and riflemen then need to be nerfed too for the sake of volks