Kick out 4vs4 maps

I know in the Poll are Steelwork Essen, Vielsam and Lanzerath Ambush missing.

There is a Reason. So pls do your 3 Votes in each poll 1.

(Because i think its not possible that people have more Votes for a poll on this forum)

My reasoning for voting for Lorch, Steppe and Red Ball:

Lorch: Approximately half of the map is just wasted in design that does not accommodate any space for tactical gameplay: the south VP is just one long lane seeing the opponents clash head-on repeatedly, which is just not fun. Plus the castle remains in the middle are one huge labyrinth that is not conductive to maneuvers and flanking, plus one side can lock it down easily with barbed wire and units. Not fun.

Steppe: The south always turns into a huge clusterfuck of head-bashing, area-lockdown, arty-fest silliness, while the middle can be dominated in late game by long-range supertanks. Again, not fun.

Red Ball: Again, the lanes on the flanks serve lockdown gameplay instead of flanking, especially the northern part where there are not enough sight blockers to allow for infantry flanking without constantly getting into HMG fire. Could become a decent map with redesign, but this version was not fun in vCoH and it is not fun in CoH2.

Montargis, most vetoed by both allies and axis. Lorch with its southern 2 vps which have very limited access by infantry/armour and hamburg for me personally because I dont like the map design.

Montargis: The resource placement is horrible
Hill(the big one): Bad map design
Steppes: This map favors axis big time

I know in the Poll are Steelwork Essen, Vielsam and Lanzerath Ambush missing.

There is a Reason. So pls do your 3 Votes in each poll 1.

(Because i think its not possible that people have more Votes for a poll on this forum)

Yeah, I would've voted for Vielsam three times.

Hill 331 has way too many level changes, unless you like shooting the ground a lot. And it plays like a maze on the sides.

City 17 is always a mess. Never any real fun play until the end, but even then most dont like the heavy tank arty fest it becomes on the middle VP.

Lorch - everything Torniks said and its a mortar fest. Its usually pretty fun to play if your not stuck in the bottom. If you wanted to play a 1v1 you wouldn't be playing a 4v4. I have to fight the urge to drop if I get stuck down that rabbit hole. Really cool looking map, I can see why it got put in though.

Personally I like Steppes, Redball, and Hamburg (even though its not overly balanced). Those are always fun with a lot of free moving action.

My votes:

Montardis Region: My apologies to the mapmaker - changing resource placement was a cool idea, but in practice it works out horribly. One team dominates the two fuels and just wins the game through vehicular superiority. The game is decided in literally the first few minutes, especially because there like thirty very strong garrisons around the fuels, so it's nigh impossible to actually force an enemy out of there. Also the corner VP's are stupid, other than a cheeky ninja cap using an infiltration unit from the house, there' almost zero interaction from both sides with a corner VP, they might as well just not exist. And the map is just too damn big, vanilla factions not having FRP's is already kind of a problem in teamgames but on this map it's hugely exacerbated, takes units half a match to get anywhere.

Lorch Assault: Top of the map is an urban garrison mortar/MGfest. Especially that church in the middle, which is practically invincible so whoever gets an MG in there first just wins the middle for a long time, meanwhile the other side has to spam mortars/leigs to have a chance. And there are just really durable houses *everywhere*, so instead of tactically using or denying important garrisons, you're constantly having to brute force your way through with indirect fire because there are ten million places to garrison an MG and have it cover a VP. Also battling over the southern VP's feels incredibly unrewarding and unfun, it's just one lane of you two bashing heads over and over. Meanwhile the castle VP is just "who can get their first with automatic weapons and then barbed wire it off". Which heavily favors OKW because Sturms are perfect for both things, and ofc Volks get their STG's. Good luck taking that VP as Brits or Soviet unless you blob into there (are Shocks even a thing atm)

Red Ball Express: Lane-style only. Sure you can flank once you control an entire lane, but a decent player will just at an HMG at that corner and deny any of that action.

I LOVE MONTARGIS

Lanzerath is such an imbalanced map it is so biased towards the right side it's un-fucking-believable

Yeah, I would've voted for Vielsam three times.

+1

After the success of 2v2 crossing in the woods, it should have been evident why it's a bad idea to add 3v3 maps to the 4v4 pool (e.g., Redball, Hill 331).

Also, Lorch assault probably needs a major makeover for the south section. I've no idea what it should look like, though. Maybe just replace the southern-most star with 1-2 territory points, and see how a 4-star map would look like.

The cliffside on the south side should also be reduced to allow more room for flanking at the town.

After the success of 2v2 crossing in the woods, it should have been evident why it's a bad idea to add 3v3 maps to the 4v4 pool (e.g., Redball, Hill 331).

Also, Lorch assault probably needs a major makeover for the south section. I've no idea what it should look like, though. Maybe just replace the southern-most star with 1-2 territory points, and see how a 4-star map would look like.

The cliffside on the south side should also be reduced to allow more room for flanking at the town.

Redball is fine for 4vs4.

NO 4vps! That like having 2 VPs!

3 or 5 Vp.

I really hope you're running these polls so you can improve the maps and not just reduce the already small map pool. I'd rather play some mediocre maps than shrink the pool.

My votes went slightly different than my list here, but that's purely due to personal taste. For example, there's no fixing the issue I have with Vielsalm or Steppes, which is that superheavy tank destroyers dominate it. There are just going to be certain maps that are open, and those are two of them. The maps I'm about to list have more tangible room for improvement. Again, these are not necessarily the maps I voted for- I'm just offering some critique on maps that obviously need it.

Lorch Assault: I feel the entire southern part of this map is wasted space. One lane means flanking basically can't happen aside the occasional castle infantry flank. Once someone locks down south, good luck taking it back. It's a nightmare. The castle does not lead itself to any kind of interesting play. There's little to no opportunity to use any kind of strategy. It's just a contest of who can spam more CQC troops like shock troops, rangers, and panzergrenadiers. The north is okay. Some people like urban combat with lots of buildings, but I don't. I think that's just a personal taste thing. The middle is the only part of the map I like.

Lanzerath Ambush: I actually like Lanzerath Ambush quite a bit. However, the top has such an advantage on the right side VP it isn't even funny. They have all the cover and the open ground. Trying to assault this position from the south is about as fun as bashing your head against the wall. The top has an easier time defending middle, too. They have a lot more room to maneuver, whereas the south players only have a few roads and that little passageway through the forest right in front of mid-VP.

Lienne Forest: I actually really like the left and middle of Lienne Forest. However, the right side is just cancer. I hate absolutely everything about it. It's not open or close quarters enough to lend itself to fun infantry skirmishes. It's just one lane so tank fights aren't fun on it, either. Whoever takes it first usually keeps it all game, because it's so insanely difficult to dislodge MG, mortar, and emplacement spammers in the right forest. It needs to decide what kind of gameplay it lends itself to, because right now it sucks for both infantry and tank combat.

Also, Lorch assault probably needs a major makeover for the south section. I've no idea what it should look like, though. Maybe just replace the southern-most star with 1-2 territory points, and see how a 4-star map would look like.

Montangris Region: This map was cancer in coh1, not sure why this map was brought to coh2.

Red Ball Express: A great map but it is and always was a 3v3 map. Map is too cluttered with 8 players. Barely enough flanking room for 6.

Lorch Assault: OUT OUT OUT. Poor design makes part of the map too cut off. Too much clutter makes flanking very difficult. This map needs a major rework to be feasible, just like faceoff at rostov.

After the success of 2v2 crossing in the woods, it should have been evident why it's a bad idea to add 3v3 maps to the 4v4 pool (e.g., Redball, Hill 331).

Also, Lorch assault probably needs a major makeover for the south section. I've no idea what it should look like, though. Maybe just replace the southern-most star with 1-2 territory points, and see how a 4-star map would look like.

The cliffside on the south side should also be reduced to allow more room for flanking at the town.

I would just remove 1 top and 1 south vp (the castle one), to make it standard 3 vp map.

I would just remove 1 top and 1 south vp (the castle one), to make it standard 3 vp map.

This would make the map a clusterfuck since there will be 4 people fighting over 1 VP. It would be better to create a passage in the castle to allow troops and tanks to drive through.

Redball is fine for 4vs4.
....

fine as it is complete cluster fuck and cockblock for both side? or fine as in it is a well designed map?

fine as it is complete cluster fuck and cockblock for both side? or fine as in it is a well designed map?

The only thing map author should remove is the dumb forest on the right side of the map, which was not there on original version. Otherwise, I see no problem with it. Flanking is still possible until midgame.

I really hope you're running these polls so you can improve the maps and not just reduce the already small map pool. I'd rather play some mediocre maps than shrink the pool.

My votes went slightly different than my list here, but that's purely due to personal taste. For example, there's no fixing the issue I have with Vielsalm or Steppes, which is that superheavy tank destroyers dominate it. There are just going to be certain maps that are open, and those are two of them. The maps I'm about to list have more tangible room for improvement. Again, these are not necessarily the maps I voted for- I'm just offering some critique on maps that obviously need it.

Lienne Forest: I actually really like the left and middle of Lienne Forest. However, the right side is just cancer. I hate absolutely everything about it. It's not open or close quarters enough to lend itself to fun infantry skirmishes. It's just one lane so tank fights aren't fun on it, either. Whoever takes it first usually keeps it all game, because it's so insanely difficult to dislodge MG, mortar, and emplacement spammers in the right forest. It needs to decide what kind of gameplay it lends itself to, because right now it sucks for both infantry and tank combat.

I've actually found that superheavy TD's tend to dominate more on maps like Essen or City 17 where it's more urban and it's easy to lock down any possible flank routes, all the roads will be mined, etc. They basically make any area around the middle VP inaccessible to your tanks because they can aim at areas your armor is funneled through and that's how they dominate with those superheavies. Whereas on Steppes there's a lot, lot more breathing room for Allies to make balls-deep flank with Mark Target+a bunch of mediums to take down an Elefant/Jagdtiger.'

I agree on Lienne Forest. The middle is an interesting dynamic where one side gets an awesome garrison, but later on have a disadvantage due to being blocked off by the railway. And the left is an urban fight, wrestling for control of the garrison next to the VP and surrounding garrisons. The right is just.... ugh. Especially once a Bofors or such goes down.