FBP V1.1 UPDATE

wow calm your tits dude, if u srsly think the jackosn is fine at 135 fuel.......lol please since the jadpanzer cost more should it also get the jacksons speed, turret, damage, access to HVP shell etc no.

You know that the J4p still rapes the jackson 1vs1 right? and don't forget on vet2 the HP boost for the J4p etc

So pls...

Btw you get a j4p faster out from manpower and fuel then a Jackson Its like 100 fuel difference or something^^

Let me ask you 1 thing:

Do PIV, J4p, Su85 etc die to 3 pak shots?! So why Jacson should?

Wat?

This is EXACTLY what I said:

After playing around in the mod for an evening, I find the fact that a jackson can survive three PAK shots and a faust to be a little much. They can survive a teller mine and a PAK shot too.

I think 520 to 560 health may be more appropriate. 560 works for the M10 nicely. And the StuG G for that matter.

I didn't say that the Jackson should die in three PAK shots at all. So I'm not sure why you're asking me this question.

Wat?

This is EXACTLY what I said:



I didn't say that the Jackson should die in three PAK shots at all. So I'm not sure why you're asking me this question.

I guess you did not got my irony.

J4p, piv, jackson, su85 and co die to 4 paks shots. --> Now jackson as well.
Aka they survive as well 3 pak shots and a faust or not?

So why jackson should die to 3 pak shots if we would remake his Hp again.

I think the reason a decent health, high mobility, high range, and high penentration tank, with a turret seems so taboo for ostheer players in particular is due solely to the fact that it's extremely hard to counter. Ostheer has no vehicles with 60 range so they must either close in with infantry to provide sight for a stug or pak but they simply can't do that unless they can manage to force off all their infantry with AT nades, bazookas etc which is difficult with squishy 4 man squads. And if they do manage this, the Jackson can so easily back up and continue to kite ostheer forever with its high mobility. The Stug would be an ideal counter to the Jackson if it could get sight but it has only 35 and a fixed gun.

This means ostheer is forced to dive one of their vehicles (p4 or panther) to hunt down a longer range tank destroyer through the fog of war with no infantry support or sight while on the move with accuracy penalty. Before it was possible to kill a Jackson if the USF player made a mistake but now that it can soak an additional shot makes things that more hopeless for ostheer against a USF player that doesn't charge his tanks in.

The whole ostheer faction is designed around being defensive until tanks hit the field and all the allied factions have a tank destroyer that can out range them. The new Jackson can do that better that SU or Brits with higher mobility, more robust infantry and a more aggressive play style.

Where I agree with the mod team is that it needed a health buff buff but only against OKW.

My suggestion
"To push the M36 into the role of heavy tank hunter, we have increased the unit’s health and accuracy to better allow the unit to be more aggressive when assaulting hostile tanks, but have slightly reduced the range and increased the cost to compensate.
• Health from 480 to 600
• Accuracy from 0.06/0.045/0.03 to 0.06/0.05/0.04
• Fixed an issue where HVAP Rounds were unresponsive when switching targets
• Range from 60 to 55
• Cost from 350/125 to 400/145"

Those were good changes.

Jackson is getting put in this weird limbo where it gets to be a slugger in a game where people are used to tank destroyers being something that has to be flanked and is no longer a problem.

This is not what a Jackson is, at all. If a StuG is vehicle equivalent of MG42 (requires positioning, can be flanked), then the Jackson in this comparison is more of a Fallschirmjaeger (high DPS glass cannon).

Do not confuse the Jackson's identity crisis with the real issue: americans do in fact need a strong anti-tank platform. But they can't have it both ways. Either the M36 gets to be cheap or it gets to be effective. Decide which and stick to it. Hell, make it cost 180 fuel and then suddenly it will be okay if it eats mediums for breakfast if they try flanking it. This means getting two of them will be more expensive than a goddamn Jagdtiger and therefore I expect having 2 Jacksons to instill as much fear into Axis tanks as a Jagdtiger / Elefant do to Allies.

I guess you did not got my irony.

J4p, piv, jackson, su85 and co die to 4 paks shots. --> Now jackson as well.

WTF.

I'm not really using panzerfausts on P4s and JP4s.

I think SU85s and JP4s having the health that they have is appropriate being that they are unturreted and extremely vulnerable to flanks.

Also, none of the units listed have a 200 damage gun that can go up to 240 damage.

Reduce the jackson's damage to 160 and sure, boost its health, adjust its cost etc. But the Jackson's got damage on its side, which isn't shared by other units. Additionally, their survivability really denies the stock sherman a role.

Also the Jackson has 40 sight, which is invaluable.

the new jackson is fine, people are like really tripping becuz they are so used to jackson being killed so fast they want it to stay that way.i used the jackson many times in new patch it actually feels like a solid tank now.even with the range, it can easily get snuck up on into range by mediums, and it will die if in range to other tanks... charging it still. the jackson is not OP in anyway in the patch.. i played against it with jp4 and stugs as my counter and the jackson didnt stand a chance... it misses quite alot tbh. and if ur far it wont always penetrate

If you want to nerf Jackson against medium increase pen and decrease rof. Why nerfing its range when it's the only thing that makes it better than heavies when engaging them

i really dont think jackson needs any kind of nerf. its not OP in any way. it has its weaknesses. theres so many ppl that are just complaining just to complain hoping they get wat they want so things stay easy for them

I have no idea how lowing penetration is supposed to make a Jackson more effective at countering heavies.

The 600 health just seems suspect to me. I think it's entirely a fixation on having Jackson survive two Elefant/JT shots than anything else.

560 health functions well with the M10 which likewise feels like a solid tank. The main thing is that 600 health makes it so a single jackson can survive a teller mine AND a pak shot. It can take three pak shots and a panzerfaust and still be alive.

560 and a teller mine and a pak kills it, and 3 pak shots and a panzerfaust kills it. But if only ATGs are being used it will still take 4 shells to kill.

560 health puts it in the threshold of dying to combined arms and tactics. An almost dead Jackson is still throwing 200+ damage shells.

I think the reason a decent health, high mobility, high range, and high penentration tank, with a turret seems so taboo for ostheer players in particular is due solely to the fact that it's extremely hard to counter. Ostheer has no vehicles with 60 range so they must either close in with infantry to provide sight for a stug or pak but they simply can't do that unless they can manage to force off all their infantry with AT nades, bazookas etc which is difficult with squishy 4 man squads. And if they do manage this, the Jackson can so easily back up and continue to kite ostheer forever with its high mobility. The Stug would be an ideal counter to the Jackson if it could get sight but it has only 35 and a fixed gun.

This means ostheer is forced to dive one of their vehicles (p4 or panther) to hunt down a longer range tank destroyer through the fog of war with no infantry support or sight while on the move with accuracy penalty. Before it was possible to kill a Jackson if the USF player made a mistake but now that it can soak an additional shot makes things that more hopeless for ostheer against a USF player that doesn't charge his tanks in.

The whole ostheer faction is designed around being defensive until tanks hit the field and all the allied factions have a tank destroyer that can out range them. The new Jackson can do that better that SU or Brits with higher mobility, more robust infantry and a more aggressive play style.

Where I agree with the mod team is that it needed a health buff buff but only against OKW.

My suggestion
"To push the M36 into the role of heavy tank hunter, we have increased the unit’s health and accuracy to better allow the unit to be more aggressive when assaulting hostile tanks, but have slightly reduced the range and increased the cost to compensate.
• Health from 480 to 600
• Accuracy from 0.06/0.045/0.03 to 0.06/0.05/0.04
• Fixed an issue where HVAP Rounds were unresponsive when switching targets
• Range from 60 to 55
• Cost from 350/125 to 400/145"

Those were good changes.

The new Jackson misses half the time at max range, standing still vs a moving target, and lacks the penetration to reliabily damage Big Cats, it has to close in now to do it's job so it will expose itself in order to hunt down armor.
It might make USF playable in the late game and that is good, no faction should lose instantly all momentum because the enemy got tanks and they failed to triple cap during the early game, US deserves a decent AT plataform that suits their agressive playstyle.

i think the 1.1 changes to jackson should be kept with the addition of :

• Range from 60 to 55
• Cost from 350/125 to 400/145

and go from ther

i think the 1.1 changes to jackson should be kept with the addition of :

• Range from 60 to 55
• Cost from 350/125 to 400/145

and go from ther

The range is out of question since the Jackson gets hardcountered by the JP4 and is much less effective against range 50 tanks. The Jackson suffers from a severe delay between the target entering his range and the outgoing shot. You'd know that ofc... if you actually played USF.

We'll have to see about the jackson.

My apologies, however, I was just calling bullshit at:



At best, the new Stug is stronger than the old one vs USF because of cheaper and better HMG, and a TWP that can be used on the move.

If your main issue vs USF was infantry all along, why not add Ostwind to your HMGs and snipers?

Did you try building Ostwinds in the mod? Have you actually played the mod?

Yes I played the mod. Yes I used the new Ostwind. I like the new Ostwind, I like the new USF and I love the call in changes! But my concerns are not with the Synergy of Ostheer. Rather the fact that tier 4 still ins't viable because you can't go ahead without getting a deep tier 3 build vs USF. This means you will most likeley never get to tier 4 since you need tier 3 to crutch yourself through the game.

This is not a fault of your balance design. This is a faction design flaw that you guys have to work with. The new TWP is really nice and its mg performance is indeed better. But a Jackson can kite it forever and be protected by usf infantry with bazookas and bars, to which the stug is very vulnerable (rightfully so).

A Jackson in its balance preview state played right, is something that can basically shut Ostheer down when supported by a USF heavy infantry play.

This post needs more attention.

The Panther needs something. The so called scope is absolute bullocks since it makes you infexible to react and to install needed changes.

I don't see how nerfing Ostheer anti tank options (StuG, Elefant) and buffing the Jackson will fix anything. Currently in 2vs2 Ostheer is already on the backfoot.

You might want to consider to actually play some 2vs2s as Ostheer and face T-34, Comet, Sherman 76mm spam. Then you will figure the only option currently is the StuG. The Panther is not viable at all.

Now you indirectly nerfed the Panther out of the game versus US players. Though one could argue that it already was nerfed out of the game already. Let's say you pissed on the dead corpse of the Ostheer Panther then. :/

They won't listen. But they are not to blame either, if the scope strikes back that is.

Maybe get a sniper and hmg to figt blobs and pak to counter jackson ? Use combined arms, that´s what is ostheer all about

Interesting, I thought Ostheer was all about synergy and having all means at your disposal to deal with the enemy forces. Meanwhile in reality world, we have an entire tier that is basically never seen in a 1v1 because you need to crutch on tier 3 or lose.

Tell me how the balance preview creates a more viable and cost efficient tier 4 with more cost efficient, and effetive, units?

Tell me how the balance preview creates a more viable and cost efficient tier 4 with more cost efficient, and effetive, units?

If callins are delayed this helps a bit?

Interesting, I thought Ostheer was all about synergy and having all means at your disposal to deal with the enemy forces. Meanwhile in reality world, we have an entire tier that is basically never seen in a 1v1 because you need to crutch on tier 3 or lose.

Tell me how the balance preview creates a more viable and cost efficient tier 4 with more cost efficient, and effetive, units?

In EFA Revamp you have a panther that deals 200 damage. This makes him far more interesting in enganging heavies and Jackson (3 shots to kill). Pwerfer and Brummbaar are already strong enough to fulfit in their roles.

The problem is that panther EFA changes never make it into FBP

The range is out of question since the Jackson gets hardcountered by the JP4 and is much less effective against range 50 tanks. The Jackson suffers from a severe delay between the target entering his range and the outgoing shot. You'd know that ofc... if you actually played USF.

The delay is minuscule in most cases.

Honestly range or cost can be adjusted since it is a very good TD stat-wise and Jadgpanzer hardcountering is fine.

The delay is minuscule in most cases.

Honestly range or cost can be adjusted since it is a very good TD stat-wise and Jadgpanzer hardcountering is fine.

I find that delay quite bothersome when your tank is being rushed upon.

What's fine about your only decent heavy ANTI-TANK unit getting hardcountered by a tank for the same cost? Why should I build this tank against OKW in the first place?
I find it quite funny how your first idea about the Jackson may have been benificial to 1v1 but would have screwed USF in 2v2+ even more, despite claiming this patch to be adressing teamgames.