Looking for advice 2v2 Axis

Hey guys!

Over the last weeks I have played a lot of 2v2 with a friend. After we started on the Allies side (UKF + Soviets), we decided to go for Axis as they seem much stronger at this point. We are currently at 55% winrate and hovering around rank 900-1k in the 2v2 ladder. Slowly improving but we seem to hit a wall any time we get high enough in ranks. Here is what we normally do:

- I am going for Wehrmacht with Lightning War, Elite Troops and Spearhear or Mechanized Assault. A standard build order is like MG, Gren, Gren, MG, Mortar, Tech, Gren, (T2 + 222 if we need fast vehicle), rush StuG or P4 as fast as possible to counter SU-76 and the likes. In the later game I try to get 2-3 P4 (or Panthers if I can afford them) and a Tiger from doctrine.

- I normally dont build PAKs or other light vehicles besides a fast 222. Sometimes get a sniper, sometimes get 2 Mortars or some PGrens if we need them. Almost never: Ostwind, Brummbär. Never: Panzerwerfer

- He goes for OKW with Spec Ops, Luftwaffe and Breakthrough. A normal build order is Sturmpios + Kubel, 3-4 Volks, Püppchen, Tech to Mechanized, get a Luchs, then go for the Schwerer HQ and get some tanks rolling. He often back-techs somewhere in between to get healing + FRP, but we only use more than one ISG against Simcity Brits. Lategame we try to get a Walking Stuka and the Command Panther + another tank.

- He never gets Pumas (they have such bad aim!), the IR-Halftrack or the Flaktruck.
Almost never: MG34, JP4

We do win most games in the early game, but we have huge problems with enemies stalling and turtling and getting their defenses up. Then we lose the game in late midgame or lategame against too many Soviet tanks + blob (f*** Lend Lease!) or huge indirect fire like 2 Mortar Pits defended by PAKs, MGs and BRACE + Katyushas or the occasional Priest/Calliope player.

Often we have the feeling the "let us do our little game" early on and keep bleeding us while they save for completely unexpected masses to overwhelm us at some point. We hold most of the map in an average game, but we don't seem to outscale the enemy as they just turtle hard with a lot of AT and MGs. Very rarely we get rekt early on by really good US or Soviet players who don't send their blob en masse but split and flank and just own you left right and center with superior infantry.

So here are some questions we have for you guys:
- Do you think OKW + Wehrmacht is "strong enough" atm?
Would going double OKW be better in the current meta?
- Are the commanders and the build orders fine? Ofc you need to adapt in games, so please consider this as more of blueprint. Would you recommend any other commanders for 2v2?

- Do we miss out on any obviously strong units/combinations that would help us?

- What can we do against the stalling/turtling? Base rushes? More harass on their cutoff? Build more/faster fuel caches to win the tank game?

- StuGs or P4s or Panthers? What is the ideal combination?

- How to play vs early Mortar Pits or Soviets with the 120mm mortar? Rush them with Luchs/222 or try to counter-bombard them with ISGs?

- Any other help/advice for our Axis 2v2 is welcome! Please help us step up our game!

Thanks in advance!

1 Play OKW
2 Abuse FRP in the middle of the map
3 Infatry spam + Leig
4 Get shwerer HQ in the middle of the map
5 cover most of map resourses
6 Stall till KT or Jagd

1 Play OKW
2 Abuse FRP in the middle of the map
3 Infatry spam + Leig
4 Get shwerer HQ in the middle of the map
5 cover most of map resourses
6 Stall till KT or Jagd

To 1: So double OKW is better than OKW + Wehr? We are always concerned of a) no serious MG to prevent Penals/blob spam and b) no fuel caches so we might lose lategame even harder...

To 3: So LeIG/ISG is supreme to Luchs rush? In double OKW would you go 2x FRP/LeIG and skip early Luchs?

To 2 and 4: But are they not raped by indirect fire? We keep losing to ppl turtling with tons of mortars, is a building in the middle of the map not easy prey for them?

To 6: We are mostly overrun by a horde (3-5) of fast and hard punching tanks like M4C, T34/85 and Comet. Are you sure stalling for KT/JT is the right direction? I fear it's just gonna get circled and buttf***d.

One or both of you is going to have to get some form of indirect fire.

If you don't get PAKs, he doesn't get Pumas or JP4s, are you relying on stugs and raketens for your dedicated AT?

If you don't get panzerwerfers, is your ally getting stuka zu fuss?

What may be occurring is that you have a strong strategy that works as long as your opponents don't adjust. The higher you get in the ranks, the less you can rely on a specific strategy to win, and the more you have to adapt your strategies within a single match. Higher level players adjust their strategies as gameplay develops. Players that adjust for what their opponents (or allies) are doing are often those who populate the upper ends of the ladder.

Double OKW is really strong but if you want one Ostheer player I recommend getting German Mechanized doctrine and getting an LEFH to counter any emplacements they get. It also comes with spotting scopes which are excellent for your tanks and on vet 3 Half-track (huge vision boost at vet 2 or 3). This will allow your mortars and leIGs to bleed them a lot more. I also suggest 1-2 p4s with an elephant/ JT. P4 kills infantry and Elephant kills their TDs. I would also recommend a Pwerfer since they will deal with anything your tanks cant including ATGs and blobs. You'll need 2x pios for repairing, one sweeper and one flamer depending on map and enemy. If double USF go double flamers. Against medium spam get a stug

I fear it's just gonna get circled and buttf***d.

If your opponents play bettet then your team they gonna outplay you with wooden pistol.


You should just try what I tell to achive new high then you can move futher

One or both of you is going to have to get some form of indirect fire.

If you don't get PAKs, he doesn't get Pumas or JP4s, are you relying on stugs and raketens for your dedicated AT?

If you don't get panzerwerfers, is your ally getting stuka zu fuss?

Our dedicated AT normally consists of my mates Raketen, my StuGs and a rushed P4. My mate often gets a Stukka zu Fuss but it's not enough often. But you are right, we have to adapt more and stick to the plan less.

Double OKW is really strong but if you want one Ostheer player I recommend getting German Mechanized doctrine and getting an LEFH to counter any emplacements they get. It also comes with spotting scopes which are excellent for your tanks and on vet 3 Half-track (huge vision boost at vet 2 or 3)

I will try this, sounds very interesting. Didn't even consider this commander so far. Thanks a lot!

If your opponents play bettet then your team they gonna outplay you with wooden pistol.

You are right there, I was just talking about the mobility of the KT/JT in comparison to being "swarmed" by a horde of T34/85 or the likes. You will need to protect it with other AT like PAKs/Raketen and that is when the bleed from mortars/indirect fire starts to hurt again.

- Do you think OKW + Wehrmacht is "strong enough" atm?
Would going double OKW be better in the current meta?

OKW + Ostheer is a decent combination at the moment being able to beat any Allied strategy at any skill level. Double OKW is easier to execute and less punishing therefore less rewarding.

- Are the commanders and the build orders fine? Ofc you need to adapt in games, so please consider this as more of blueprint. Would you recommend any other commanders for 2v2?

OKW's commander loadout and build order looks fine to me except Luftwaffe: Swap it with Fortifications doctrine. You as Ostheer should consider adding a commander that grants access to scopes like Jaeger armour. Two commanders with Tiger and one strong air strike are enough. Do not build more than one PIV! You should rather save for Panther and Panzerwerfer than investing into more PIVs. I recommend your first tank to be a PIV as front stabilizing allrounder and your second tank to be a StuG if you need AT capabilities as soon as possible. If you feel comfortable enough with PaKs and PIV as your main source of AT you should advance to Tier IV and purchase what fits your current needs most (AT + damage tolerance? Panther! Indirect fire vs team weapons? Panzerwerfer! Want to troll? Brummbar!).

- Do we miss out on any obviously strong units/combinations that would help us?

Jaeger Armour (Scopes, Reconnaissance and Elephant: at least the first two of them are useful in every situation) in combination with Spec Ops (flares for more vision for your Elephant and Command Panther of course). If you combine mark target of Command Panther and all your team's vision granting abilities you will see how the Elephant turns every Allied vehicle into burning wrecks in no time.

- What can we do against the stalling/turtling? Base rushes? More harass on their cutoff? Build more/faster fuel caches to win the tank game?

I don't warrant that my plan will work in 100% of situations but if they turtle one side of the map your team should fortify the other side to a) guarantee you reach late game and b) to ensure that your team at least holds its "natural" ressource points and one VP. If you encounter emplacements (mortar pits, bofors etc) you can try out double Snipers with Infrared Halftrack/Scopes to spot counter Snipers. Due to using two Snipers as your primary attacking force you will barely take casualties (provided you keep your Snipers alive) which will give you enough Man Power to construct caches. Since your opponent has invested most of his MP in static units he won't be able to overrun your Snipers - not even speaking of OKW support. Keep your Snipers draining hostile Man Power (which might trigger your opponent to execute dangerous, crude pushes that you can use for your advantage) and rush out one PIV while your mate can go for Stuka -> T4 Flak Halftrack -> whatever tank you need. You should save for Elephant in the long run to dominate hostile armour. Your OKW mate can alternatively go for Howitzer and the 300 muni barrage of Fortifications Doctrine.

- StuGs or P4s or Panthers? What is the ideal combination?

See above. General rule: Never more than one PIV!

- How to play vs early Mortar Pits or Soviets with the 120mm mortar? Rush them with Luchs/222 or try to counter-bombard them with ISGs?

See above. Walking Stuka works best against 120mm mortars. An very aggressive but risky approach would be to build two mortars then two Grenadiers as soon as you see UKF on the loading screen. While you hold a central point of the map with a garrisoned MG42 (the garrison was successfully rushed by Sturmpioneers in the best of worlds) that covers your two mortar teams your mate spots possible emplacement constructions with Kubel's vision. Your mortars will help your OKW mate to dominate engagements against Tommies and other Allied infantry and two of your Grenadiers will support him of course. Build a flame HT as soon as possible to push your advantage and be sure it is covered by AT.

Double OKW is easier to execute and less punishing therefore less rewarding.
...
OKW's commander loadout and build order looks fine to me except Luftwaffe: Swap it with Fortifications doctrine. You as Ostheer should consider adding a commander that grants access to scopes like Jaeger armour. I recommend your first tank to be a PIV as front stabilizing allrounder and your second tank to be a StuG if you need AT capabilities as soon as possible.
...
Jaeger Armour (Scopes, Reconnaissance and Elephant: at least the first two of them are useful in every situation) in combination with Spec Ops (flares for more vision for your Elephant and Command Panther of course).
...
If you encounter emplacements (mortar pits, bofors etc) you can try out double Snipers with Infrared Halftrack/Scopes to spot counter Snipers. Keep your Snipers draining hostile Man Power and rush out one PIV while your mate can go for Stuka -> T4 Flak Halftrack -> whatever tank you need.

I cannot thank you enough for this long and helpful answer. We won't switch to double OKW and I will try the Jaeger Armour commander. Also I tried the German Mechanized in the last few days and scopes + leFH destroys everything a Brit player could build in any 2v2 map. So I guess vision is much more important than I/we thought.

I never really considered the Elephant tbh because it seems slow and easy to circle with T34s and stuff. But will give it a shot in combination with Command Panther and some StuGs. Also I won't build more than a single PIV now and instead focus on the T4 units. My mate will rush a Stuka if we face too many Soviet Mortars. Obviously we are not gonna get a Luchs in this scenario because of fuel delay on Stuka, but is he building the FRP before the Stuka or back-teching to it? The strategy with double snipers sounds very entertaining but micro-heavy. Will report back on results.

Thanks again for your effort and answer! This is the kind of feedback and advice I was looking for!

You are right there, I was just talking about the mobility of the KT/JT in comparison to being "swarmed" by a horde of T34/85 or the likes. You will need to protect it with other AT like PAKs/Raketen and that is when the bleed from mortars/indirect fire starts to hurt again.

Mines and fausts. Or just having supporting at like raks, schrecks, or other tanks around. And as others have stated, one of you should get indirect fire.