I was talking with WhiteFlashReborn the other day about his map. I think it one of the best 1v1 maps in the map rotation, but i think it has some unbalanced things on it. I will make a list:
.The negative cover road outise the bases
.High resources income map
.The south garrison cutoff
.The 2 garrisons in the middle of the map that are not equal
I talked to him on discord and he told me why the map was like this and his points were really reasonable but i think those should be changed. I want to know what people that know the game and experienced think about it.
Crossroads by WhiteFlashReborn
6 Jul 2017, 00:45 AM
#1
Posts: 712
6 Jul 2017, 01:10 AM
#2
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
The northern cutoff house wreck is problematic as well. Since it's a sight blocker the northern player can have a real issue if OKW manages to get a sturmpioneer behind it. The only way to dislodge them from that position is to charge them, or take the east exit. It is one of the better maps though, no doubt. Just high resources are more beneficial for the axis imo. As they need to reach that critical mass where their armor overwhelms the allied player.
6 Jul 2017, 07:22 AM
#3
9 
Posts: 1094 | Subs: 20
Yeah the main issue is the northern cutoff house ruin. It's too dominant as a shot and lineofsight blocker. Especially if you are playing Ostheer in the North and try to use Paks... you are going to have a hard time.
Secondly, I find the base entrances quite nasty. Red cover and a weird angle makes coming out of your base really difficult.
So basically what the others have said.
Maybe I'd push the VPs a little bit so they are more in line and easier to tripple cap, otherwise matches tend to drag out.
Secondly, I find the base entrances quite nasty. Red cover and a weird angle makes coming out of your base really difficult.
So basically what the others have said.
Maybe I'd push the VPs a little bit so they are more in line and easier to tripple cap, otherwise matches tend to drag out.
6 Jul 2017, 08:28 AM
#4
Posts: 587
2 too many strat points, who can easily be removed without changing the map that much.
Reason for removing: Don't mess with teching, don't mess with timing, don't overreward those factions with early aggresion and mapcontrol, leading to even earlier light vehice's (sov, USF and okw).
At the same time the map lay-out is like langres where 1 faction will have acces to 1 vp, muni and fuel, making games take unreasonably long to close out.
Muni is also impossible to deny the enemy, and with the extra strat points can even lead to an overflow of grenades (see vonivan vs devm, riflenades were everywhere). So I suggest moving the muni points somewhere more harrasable.
And it's my subjective opinion that there is way to much green cover near the left fuel.
Other than that, the map is ok and even one of the better one's in rotation.
Reason for removing: Don't mess with teching, don't mess with timing, don't overreward those factions with early aggresion and mapcontrol, leading to even earlier light vehice's (sov, USF and okw).
At the same time the map lay-out is like langres where 1 faction will have acces to 1 vp, muni and fuel, making games take unreasonably long to close out.
Muni is also impossible to deny the enemy, and with the extra strat points can even lead to an overflow of grenades (see vonivan vs devm, riflenades were everywhere). So I suggest moving the muni points somewhere more harrasable.
And it's my subjective opinion that there is way to much green cover near the left fuel.
Other than that, the map is ok and even one of the better one's in rotation.
Being bad at the game isn't something balance patches can fix.
6 Jul 2017, 08:41 AM
#5
Posts: 712
2 too many strat points, who can easily be removed without changing the map that much.
Reason for removing: Don't mess with teching, don't mess with timing, don't overreward those factions with early aggresion and mapcontrol, leading to even earlier light vehice's (sov, USF and okw).
At the same time the map lay-out is like langres where 1 faction will have acces to 1 vp, muni and fuel, making games take unreasonably long to close out.
Muni is also impossible to deny the enemy, and with the extra strat points can even lead to an overflow of grenades (see vonivan vs devm, riflenades were everywhere). So I suggest moving the muni points somewhere more harrasable.
And it's my subjective opinion that there is way to much green cover near the left fuel.
Other than that, the map is ok and even one of the better one's in rotation.
When i talked with Whiteflash i told him about the two extra points, i told him that because i heard Tightrope saying that in one of his casts but he told me that it has the same amount of points that every other 1v1 map has. He also told me that it is a high muni map because that means more explosions, abilities being used etc, i told him that i disagree with that and that it should be changed.
6 Jul 2017, 08:51 AM
#6
Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7
Also fuels are not equal, there's a big wooden log near southern one, which allows the northern player to hide some nasty CQC unit behind, like spios or commandos, further hardening the defence of fuel for southern player. Tis has to be implemented on other part of map as well, or removed all together
6 Jul 2017, 08:51 AM
#7
Posts: 587
When i talked with Whiteflash i told him about the two extra points, i told him that because i heard Tightrope saying that in one of his casts but he told me that it has the same amount of points that every other 1v1 map has. He also told me that it is a high muni map because that means more explosions, abilities being used etc, i told him that i disagree with that and that it should be changed.
Since im prickly about this, i went ingame and counted the strat points yet again.
kholodny: 10 strat points (5 on each side)
Fayomville: 10 strat points (5 on each side)
Our beloved crossroads: 12 strat points (6 on each side).
Kindly request that flash counts the strat points aswell, for clearly he has made a small error.
And more explosions and abilities is not a good thing
Reason for that, (apart from what i said earlier) would be that the choice between upgrading and throwing grenades/using abilities becomes far less punishing and that is not good for competitive match-making.
Not to mention demo's.
There is a reason every good map has 10 strat points, 2 muni points, 2 fuel points and 3 vps with the high resource points being harrasable/easy to cut-off.
Don't fix something that isn't broken.
Being bad at the game isn't something balance patches can fix.
6 Jul 2017, 11:23 AM
#8
Posts: 875 | Subs: 6
I would say it's my favourite 1v1 map, but I agree with the critiques everyone has raised here.
6 Jul 2017, 12:03 PM
#9
Posts: 69 | Subs: 1
first of all I would like to remove map from 2v2 pool: too small, short distance between base sectors.
6 Jul 2017, 12:05 PM
#10
Posts: 875 | Subs: 6
first of all I would like to remove map from 2v2 pool: too small, short distance between base sectors.
You must be thinking of Crossing in the Woods.
6 Jul 2017, 12:47 PM
#11
Posts: 69 | Subs: 1
You must be thinking of Crossing in the Woods.
Right, now I realized my mistake lol.
And about crossroads, another problem imo is large undestroyable hedgerows in front of base sectors. Other maps don't have such terrain
6 Jul 2017, 13:15 PM
#12
5 Posts: 243
No, one of the most imbalanced map. Needs to change drastically.
- Because It's too much midpoint heavy and It's much easier to harass north side high fuel.
-Beside mid-VP you rarely see people harassing other VP's cause of lacking natural harassment route.
-The map is turning into flat war zone too quick and dragging the games so long.
- Comparing the other "popular" maps It has more areas you never see.
- Because It's too much midpoint heavy and It's much easier to harass north side high fuel.
-Beside mid-VP you rarely see people harassing other VP's cause of lacking natural harassment route.
-The map is turning into flat war zone too quick and dragging the games so long.
- Comparing the other "popular" maps It has more areas you never see.
6 Jul 2017, 14:19 PM
#13
1 Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4
- Need to move the muni points. practically impossible to control both at the same time.
- Needs another base exit in the middle
- Need to look at and even out both sides of the map. The west is all green cover, the east has almost none. Favors one player too heavily.
- Needs another base exit in the middle
- Need to look at and even out both sides of the map. The west is all green cover, the east has almost none. Favors one player too heavily.
Tobis "Complete Throw"
Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
6 Jul 2017, 15:28 PM
#14
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
I don't think the south garrison cut-off is too bad since it has no south facing windows meaning it's of no use in holding the opposing players cut-off in most cases.
The northern-center garrison *is* kind of strange though - mostly just because it's pretty easy to collapse by accident by errant tank crushing. Could maybe just use a smidge more health to compensate for having less windows?
The northern-center garrison *is* kind of strange though - mostly just because it's pretty easy to collapse by accident by errant tank crushing. Could maybe just use a smidge more health to compensate for having less windows?
6 Jul 2017, 21:01 PM
#15
Posts: 1467 | Subs: 4
I don't think the south garrison cut-off is too bad since it has no south facing windows meaning it's of no use in holding the opposing players cut-off in most cases.
Ambient building callins are stronger and can punish a retreating squad into the south base in a way you cannot in the North base.
7 Jul 2017, 13:55 PM
#16
1 
Posts: 1838 | Subs: 17
As mentioned before the destroyed house that acts as a sight/shot blocker in the north greatly favours the south player as they can cap the point without being scene as well as at guns having difficulty around that house.
Middle area the wooden house has more windows facing west compared to the other stone house which has 1 window in all directions. Problem here is significant firepower difference.
Far right side there is green cover near the fuel point which favours the north side player as the opposite side has yellow cover.
As Tric just mentioned, the big wooden house by the south side cut off is very prone to infiltration units which is a big advantage to the north side (spawn squad to finish off retreating units or cap the cut off quickly).
Middle area the wooden house has more windows facing west compared to the other stone house which has 1 window in all directions. Problem here is significant firepower difference.
Far right side there is green cover near the fuel point which favours the north side player as the opposite side has yellow cover.
As Tric just mentioned, the big wooden house by the south side cut off is very prone to infiltration units which is a big advantage to the north side (spawn squad to finish off retreating units or cap the cut off quickly).
7 Jul 2017, 14:51 PM
#17
Posts: 515
...
Far right side there is green cover near the fuel point which favours the north side player as the opposite side has yellow cover.
...
I remember when testing and talking to Whiteflash about the map's design and development prior to its release, that having green cover on the right side of the map near the fuel was a very intentional choice, as to give the north player a positional advantage as an incentive to go for the right side fuel rather than "his" fuel on the left side. If you look at the left, it has the same design, where there is a stone wall offering green cover to engage squads fighting on the point.
7 Jul 2017, 16:16 PM
#18
Posts: 587
I remember when testing and talking to Whiteflash about the map's design and development prior to its release, that having green cover on the right side of the map near the fuel was a very intentional choice, as to give the north player a positional advantage as an incentive to go for the right side fuel rather than "his" fuel on the left side. If you look at the left, it has the same design, where there is a stone wall offering green cover to engage squads fighting on the point.
Except this falls short when the southern players moves 10 meter up and uses all the green cover provided by the graveyard fence.
Being bad at the game isn't something balance patches can fix.
11 Jul 2017, 00:31 AM
#19
Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21
Yeah the main issue is the northern cutoff house ruin. It's too dominant as a shot and lineofsight blocker. Especially if you are playing Ostheer in the North and try to use Paks... you are going to have a hard time.
Secondly, I find the base entrances quite nasty. Red cover and a weird angle makes coming out of your base really difficult.
So basically what the others have said.
Maybe I'd push the VPs a little bit so they are more in line and easier to tripple cap, otherwise matches tend to drag out.
I support this, except for maybe the VPS change, you can still cap the VPS if you have an advantage over your opponent, however tactically if you do, you could be cutoff and flanked easier, which is what makes this map more fluent.
Moving the ruined house, or maybe having a small shack-ish house facing the cutoff, like how it is on the southern part of the map, but with a more tactical angle, could be a better idea. The house could also be attached to the part of the base that has hedges, so it's even with the house down south perspective wise.
You could fix the red cover road issue with yellow cover artillery holes, or by having the road slightly destroyed, if possible.
9 Aug 2017, 13:54 PM
#20
19 Posts: 1295 | Subs: 1
Uploaded a revised version of Crossroads. Please try it out and post feedback here. The more detailed the better.
Thanks all
Changes: https://imgur.com/a/ok9H0
Map here: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=501836252
Thanks all
Changes: https://imgur.com/a/ok9H0
Map here: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=501836252
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