[2vs2] Ostheer still can't compete

I just want to make sure whether I'm the onyl one experiencing this. And especially with this other thread about revamping the factions for the new patch which will further decrease the effectiveness of Ostheer in many regards (StuG nerf, Elefant nerf, Pak target weakpoint nerf, nerfing Panthers vet), I'm afraid Ostheer will become unplayable.

1) Currently 2vs2s have dumbed down to ever increasing medium tank spam in which all allied factions outperform the Ostheer. It's hardly possible to compete with this. The StuG is the last grasp to win but will get seriously ouperformed by the 60 range TDs of the Allies. And this medium tank spam - which Ostheer struggles to fight - will be made worse with the Elefant damage nerf, no target weakpoint and less StuG penetration.

2) Artillery pretty much counters the whole Ostheer faction. Be it a mortar pit or a Land matress or Katjuscha later. The support weapons which Ostheer needs are easily deleted. And there is hardly a way to counter that as Ostheer.

3) Ostheer still doesnt have any advantage in the infantry department. Penals pretty much destroyed any chance of fighting infantry without an MG42 nearby.

TL;DR: Ostheer is on the backfoot on all stages of the game. Even lategame. It needs adjustments to IMPROVE the faction. Not nerf it further.

Well, I always said that the Eastern Front Armies need to be upped to the point of the Western Front Armies in terms of balance (think Forward Retreat Points, repair rates, etc... as well) and not the other way around, nerfing everything to the ground will not lead to any viable solution.

The Ostheer/Wehrmacht having shit infantry (Grenadiers), shit tanks and the lack of features like the Forward Retreat Point and repair rates like the OKW is what makes me prefer to play the OKW on the Axis side, same goes for the Allies.

I almost never play Soviets, mostly play UKF and after that USF because I love the tank crew feature but that's about it, UKF gives me everything I need to have a fun playing experience.

The Eastern Front Armies are for people who want a challenge playing with a handicap almost all of the time.

The problem with ostheer is that they lack aggression without vehicles.
Early game aggressive ostheer play requires either g43s, double 222s or a flame Half-track that the enemy isn't prepared for.

Mid game aggression requires medium tanks which means p4 since stug can't pressure infantry at all and ostwind sewers you when they get a medium tank.

Late game means brummbarr, Pwerfer and panthers which is where ostheer starts to shine but in 1s it's nearly impossible to get to. In 2s it's hard but more doable with an OKW mate or if ost ally went heavy t3.

In team games ALL of ostheers aggression is hard countered by the allied TDs with 60 range when they reach critical mass and force a retreat before you can take a shot. And your reward for not losing your tank is getting to enjoy the longest repair times with the least efficient and task burdened engineers in the game.

When I play Ostheer in team games I more often than not find myself getting an elephant and pwerfers since I can strike back without getting ruined by allied meta.

TLDR: ost relies on vehicles for aggression, Allies have loads of counters to all tanks (they need it to compete with okw armor) and ost repair times are really bad. 1v1 meta is callins and t3, team game meta is t4 and elephant to find some form of aggression. Another possibility is using lefh to counter allied rocket artillery and TD spam but make sure they can't kill it.

That's my analysis of ostheer.


Ostheer does well with okw since they provide the hammer you can attack with.
Ostheer is turtle play and okw is more aggressive so they function well together.

Once upon a time Ostheer was designed around the Soviet faction, and vice versa.

Then Ostheer and Soviets have been endlessly mucked with to accommodate the imbalances of WFA and the Brits.

The problem with ostheer is that they lack aggression without vehicles.
Early game aggressive ostheer play requires either g43s, double 222s or a flame Half-track that the enemy isn't prepared for.

Mid game aggression requires medium tanks which means p4 since stug can't pressure infantry at all and ostwind sewers you when they get a medium tank.

Late game means brummbarr, Pwerfer and panthers which is where ostheer starts to shine but in 1s it's nearly impossible to get to. In 2s it's hard but more doable with an OKW mate or if ost ally went heavy t3.

Ostheer does well with okw since they provide the hammer you can attack with.
Ostheer is turtle play and okw is more aggressive so they function well together.

On point analysis. Specially the part about "turtle play". OH is basically designed to creep, not to split push yolo flank with grens as USF/SU/OKW.

OP
I'm not sure if it's just due to OKW performance or not, but OH was still enjoying of a nice W/L (random, cause AT can be whatever). Double OH is a challenge indeed, but it's not like you can't do it. It requires a different mindset (you can't play it as if you were playing double OKW ez mode )

I find ostheer way easier in 2v2s compared to OKW, easy access to strong team weapons and the like. Very adaptable in the face of different factions as well based on your commander pick, expecting a strong penal opening? 4/5 gren build will wreck brit openers and soviets alike. Meanwhile you can also rush go double mgs, pio then 2 grens for a more defensive opening that still has soft counters against scout car rush, mp40s on pios and a well positioned mg42 drops a scout car in seconds.

brits destroyed the play for ost hard...much more in teamgames...

ost is only there to support the OKW player with mgs and mortar and some callins. Thats it.

but in teamgames...u have only arty/ call in spamer on alli side.

Imo part of the reason Ostheer feel so weak is that their medium armor lost all of its sock value.

There was a time when Ostheer player had to defend until they could field a PZIV and then they could start pushing.

Currently allied medium are more cost efficient and their TDs can shut PZIV from range 60.

PZIV need some breathing room.

Once upon a time Ostheer was designed around the Soviet faction, and vice versa.

Then Ostheer and Soviets have been endlessly mucked with to accommodate the imbalances of WFA and the Brits.

I agree, I believe the balance between OH and Soviets is pretty good atm, but if the other factions come into play, they just destroy everything. Insane repair speed, over the top abilities, FRPs, etc. really makes it hard to compete with them...

Ofc I'm just a casual noob but I'd like to share my view on this.

The overall performance of OH units is pretty decent and especially the support weapons MG42 and the mortar do very well in all kind of situations. The only thing lacking is - as others pointed out before - the depressing repair rate which puts you on the backfoot at the time you have to mainly rely on tanks. Also FRP's just increase the pressure when you cant get your tank(s) back to the front in time.

As stated in another thread - the mod/balance team should quit the fine tuning and instead focus on actual improvements (like equal repair rates, general solution to FRP's, ...).