Unofficial Revamp mod (EFA & WFA & Brits)

I agree, just raising the fuel cost by 15 is already a balance. Also raising the CP just means the player has less incentive to expend fuel for the unit since by that time, there are non-infantry threats. The design of Greyhound should, IMO, be about being able to call it in and wreak havoc, but you are forced to choose between Greyhound and things like teching up, unlocking BAR, ambulance, etc.

I'd rather fuel cost be raised further but keep CP at 3. Any doctrinal unlock that is anti-infantry, needs to compete with other anti-infantry strategies.

EDIT: Wow! Just found a cool bug with the MG34! Seems if you capture one with Shock Troops, they can get 5 Star Veterancy! Will post screenshot shortly.

EDIT 2:

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/844844403657833515/F3877A2D51D0BC6622172E30338417BEA5423FA2/

Hmmmm... Seems all captured OKW weapons have the same bug.

That's kind of a feature.

Everybody receives the full bonuses of captured team-weapons/vehicles and OKW equipment is no exception. Vet-5 has been brought down to line with other factions, therefore receiving any less than that would make captured equipment feel bad.

We might refine it in the future, so that those squads show 3 stars when they are receiving vet5-equivalent bonuses. However, for logistic purposes, I don't expect this to happen until we feel there are no more changes needed in the mod.

WHy 4 CP ? What the reason have light vehicles with stats like this in 4 CP ?

That's because the changes make the Greyhound the king of the light vehicles, and it never goes bad, even in the late-game.

3 CP and people could use it to completely wreck enemies in low-resource maps (e.g., Caen, etc).

Somethng bother me for a while.
- Assault Enigineer planting mines (the same mines as doctrine Rifleman) seems too slow like rifleman one. Is it possible to make plant time faster like other engineers ?
- Give both Grenedier and Osstruppen blity to build cover too since they are performing better in heavy cover.

- Give both Grenedier and Osstruppen blity to build cover too since they are performing better in heavy cover.

Imo no mainline infantry should be able to built heavy cover (accept live conscripts).

There should be utility left for other units.

Then remove ability to build sandbag, bunker, fighting position and other emplacements from all mainline infantry (whether doctrine or not). Since all of them provide heavy cover to infantries .
Too much works for support/engineers units just for build covers Kappa.

That's because the changes make the Greyhound the king of the light vehicles, and it never goes bad, even in the late-game.

3 CP and people could use it to completely wreck enemies in low-resource maps (e.g., Caen, etc).

Imo remove its kingness and make it more accessible, USF is already struggling to reach CPs since they don't build anything ,the unit is just going to be too late. (And it is going to be even worst in teamgame)
Arguments are the same as for Paratroops, yeah they are great but come too late..

That's kind of a feature.

Everybody receives the full bonuses of captured team-weapons/vehicles and OKW equipment is no exception. Vet-5 has been brought down to line with other factions, therefore receiving any less than that would make captured equipment feel bad.

We might refine it in the future, so that those squads show 3 stars when they are receiving vet5-equivalent bonuses. However, for logistic purposes, I don't expect this to happen until we feel there are no more changes needed in the mod.

"Vet-5 has been brought down to line with other factions"

I can see it, so when does OKW gets caches ?

"Vet-5 has been brought down to line with other factions"

I can see it, so when does OKW gets caches ?

When other factions get the bonuses 5 vets still give. They still benefit from osts' caches too in team games. Also, when volks are balanced.

When other factions get the bonuses 5 vets still give. They still benefit from osts' caches too in team games. Also, when volks are balanced.

So, you mean having to score an insane amount of kills to reach the full potential that other units reach in 3 starts, because vet 5 now is basically overglorified vet 3. cit. Mr.Smith.
Volks aren't balanced ? that's new honestly, i though those firing rom the hip WW1 mg's while shooting free semi auto rifles that have same stats of stg - 1dps were riflemen, all weapons with insane dps to the point that even obers struggle with them until vet 2.

Maybe you meant panzerfusiliers ?

So, you mean having to score an insane amount of kills to reach the full potential that other units reach in 3 starts, because vet 5 now is basically overglorified vet 3. cit. Mr.Smith.
Volks aren't balanced ? that's new honestly, i though those firing rom the hip WW1 mg's while shooting free semi auto rifles that have same stats of stg - 1dps were riflemen, all weapons with insane dps to the point that even obers struggle with them until vet 2.

Maybe you meant panzerfusiliers ?

No I meant volks. Although, in the revamp they actually probably are decently balanced. Garands do not have the same dps as stgs lol. Not even close.

Pfusies too but they're a bit better balanced in the revamp as well, especially since they're more than 6 pop lol.

A lot of people use obers wrong IMO. They aren't really supposed to get shot at; that's what volks are for. But when they're at max range behind the resr of your army, they'll do work. Actually very balanced unit IMO.

So, you mean having to score an insane amount of kills to reach the full potential that other units reach in 3 starts, because vet 5 now is basically overglorified vet 3. cit. Mr.Smith.

Getting to veterancy 5 is now around the same as getting veterancy 3 when comparing OKW units to everyone else. This means they get those extra veterancy bonuses earlier which have been adjusted to abilities and non-combat stat passives. Highly ranked OKW units also give less experience to the enemy as well, on-par with the others when maxed out.

Imo remove its kingness and make it more accessible, USF is already struggling to reach CPs since they don't build anything ,the unit is just going to be too late. (And it is going to be even worst in teamgame)

Then we have the issue of having the same M8 Greyhound that no one builds. 4CPs is also not that far away. In most cases if you're being aggressive with USF, you'll have those CPs when the majority of light tanks are arriving, if not slightly after.

Furthermore, the M8 can still tackle other lights the same way a T-70 can while also having 24/7 recon vision while the T-70 needs to pop the hatch open and shutdown its main gun.

Then we have the issue of having the same M8 Greyhound that no one builds. 4CPs is also not that far away. In most cases if you're being aggressive with USF, you'll have those CPs when the majority of light tanks are arriving, if not slightly after.

Furthermore, the M8 can still tackle other lights the same way a T-70 can while also having 24/7 recon vision while the T-70 needs to pop the hatch open and shutdown its main gun.

From my experience, the luchs usually comes out when I, as the okw player, am at 2 - 2.5 cps (2 if i have excellent fuel control, 2.5 if its average or slightly in my favor). If I'm behind, it comes at right around 3, I think. I imagine that the timing for the 222 is more or less the same because of there not really being a rush for ost t2. I just think you're underestimating how big the gap is in/would be in their timings. Of course these values are VERY rough, and based only off of my experiences and observations

The t70, in my experience, usually wins against a luchs with ~40-70% health remaining, while the luchs usually wins against the greyhound with ~60-70% health remaining. Again, all of these are from my observations. Since the only relevant change to the greyhound in this matchup (from what I can tell), is the change from 240 to 400 health, I still don't see how the greyhound will manage to take a luchs down to lower than 40% health.

I'm not saying the greyhound will be underpowered (especially with ALL of the other USF changes thrown into the mix, which makes things unpredictable), but I think saying it can tackle other lights like a t-70 can is a massive stretch. Of course the greyhound can be to the luchs what the luchs is to the t70 (better AI, worse AT), but I feel like this dynamic mostly manages because it means that both the luchs and the t70 are the strongest vehicles on the field at their timings. I don't know if the greyhound will be able to have the appropriate impact with it coming at around the time of a t70, but having to run from a luchs like a luchs has to run from a t70.

Getting to veterancy 5 is now around the same as getting veterancy 3 when comparing OKW units to everyone else. This means they get those extra veterancy bonuses earlier which have been adjusted to abilities and non-combat stat passives. Highly ranked OKW units also give less experience to the enemy as well, on-par with the others when maxed out.

I get it, and with jadgtiger/FRP nerf i feel like the okw lack of caches is simply redundant and useless.


1)It is a disincentive in spacing between build orders.

2)It is an incentive in high use of mp based units.

3)It achieve nothing, OKW has the most expensive price tags already, that surely fully reflect the power of their vehicles.

4)Ironically in teamgames the OST player can still build caches, it nerf OKW in the only mode where it shouldn't.

To sum up, prices should reflect the better qualities of okw vehicles, and they do, but shouldn't erase the tactical decision of investing mp in caches.
Of course it should cost more than normal caches, like 50-100 mp more.

No I meant volks. Although, in the revamp they actually probably are decently balanced. Garands do not have the same dps as stgs lol. Not even close.

Pfusies too but they're a bit better balanced in the revamp as well, especially since they're more than 6 pop lol.

A lot of people use obers wrong IMO. They aren't really supposed to get shot at; that's what volks are for. But when they're at max range behind the resr of your army, they'll do work. Actually very balanced unit IMO.

http://www.stat.coh2.hu/weapon.php?filename=volksgrenadier_mp44_smg_mp
http://www.stat.coh2.hu/weapon.php?filename=m1_garand_rifle_rifleman_mp

NOT EVEN CLOSE BRUH !!!!!

Obers are perfect as long as you got skills to use it, and can be your "killer" unit with 100+ kills per game, but surely need more skills than bar blobs and penals.
They require skills because they WILL struggle anyway against potency of wfa mainlines until vet 2.

Volks stg are far from being OP, they can't 1vs1 penals at close to medium range and rifles with 1 bar at any range, but they can always fight cons that cost 5 mp less per model, unless those doctrinal upgrade to ppsh and are used properly.
They also are the squishiest mainline in game at max vetting.
Ok for their price.

Imo no mainline infantry should be able to built heavy cover (accept live conscripts).

There should be utility left for other units.

Agreed, remove it from volks and IS.

Even cons when they get fixed.

The t70, in my experience, usually wins against a luchs with ~40-70% health remaining, while the luchs usually wins against the greyhound with ~60-70% health remaining. Again, all of these are from my observations. Since the only relevant change to the greyhound in this matchup (from what I can tell), is the change from 240 to 400 health, I still don't see how the greyhound will manage to take a luchs down to lower than 40% health.

The greyhound also gets faster reload speed. Luchs also lost the ridiculous 100% hitrate vs vehicles. Therefore the Greyhound can stop and fire, whereas the Luchs will have to constantly choose between stopping to be accurate and following the enemy vehicle to keep up.

However, that's not greyhound's main job; greyhound is an infantry murdering machine. Greyhound also does quite well vs paks with its cannister shot & MG combo. That's the main reason it has to come out later. The greyhound far outperforms other light vehicles in an AI role. All in all, greyhound is that bit of oomph that Recon doctrine needed to keep up with other USF doctrines.

So far, in every mod game we've played people were building their core-army light vehicles and then called Greyhound as an icing on the cake to deliver the killing blow. That was before we swapped Stuart/AAHT locations though.

I get it, and with jadgtiger/FRP nerf i feel like the okw lack of caches is simply redundant and useless.

OKW has salvage and kubelwagens to make up for lack of caches.

Caches were nerfed, and OKW also received a handful new tools and changes to compensate elsewhere:
- Sturmpioneer/ISG Smoke
- Obers/JP4 that can arrive way earlier than before
- A fixed economy, so that OKW is neither required nor capable to float enormous amount of manpower while waiting for vehicles (P4/P5 pricing)
- Unit special abilities arriving about twice as fast (at new Vet3 rather than having to wait for old Vet5)

OKW has salvage and kubelwagens to make up for lack of caches.

Caches were nerfed, and OKW also received a handful new tools and changes to compensate elsewhere:
- Sturmpioneer/ISG Smoke
- Obers/JP4 that can arrive way earlier than before
- A fixed economy, so that OKW is neither required nor capable to float enormous amount of manpower while waiting for vehicles (P4/P5 pricing)
- Unit special abilities arriving about twice as fast (at new Vet3 rather than having to wait for old Vet5)

I can see the big picture now, thx.
Looking forward to those changes and support to restart, seems solid.

BTW isg, which will be its role ?

The greyhound also gets faster reload speed. Luchs also lost the ridiculous 100% hitrate vs vehicles. Therefore the Greyhound can stop and fire, whereas the Luchs will have to constantly choose between stopping to be accurate and following the enemy vehicle to keep up.

However, that's not greyhound's main job; greyhound is an infantry murdering machine. Greyhound also does quite well vs paks with its cannister shot & MG combo. That's the main reason it has to come out later. The greyhound far outperforms other light vehicles in an AI role. All in all, greyhound is that bit of oomph that Recon doctrine needed to keep up with other USF doctrines.

So far, in every mod game we've played people were building their core-army light vehicles and then called Greyhound as an icing on the cake to deliver the killing blow. That was before we swapped Stuart/AAHT locations though.

Unless the accuracy nerfs are far more than I understand, the luchs should still win against the greyhound rather handily. As you've said, it probably won't need to given how much more potent it looks against anti infantry, but I just think that its buffs against light tanks are being oversold. Most of the responses from the mod team have made it seem like the luchs would be more or less a non issue for the greyhound (just like its a non issue for the t70, since thats what its AT was compared to).

Though when my argument is this technical and going off of this much guesswork, I guess it's at the point where I should just shut up and play the mod and see how it all actually works in practice.