Unofficial Revamp mod (EFA & WFA & Brits)

Smith, you guys may want to include within the title of this thread (And the EFA thread) that this is a mod. You know, to prevent any confusion as to whether these changes effect the live version of the game.

Thanks!

LOL you are just butthurt because you lost a command panther + stuka yesterday to P47 loiter cos you drove into the circle like an imbecile, I watched the game

Yeah that didnt even make me mad though. The game was over at that point anyways. Are you my secret fanboy or why the hell are you watching my scrub games?? lol

It's job is to kill Tanks!

So does Su-76, Stug, Panther, M10 and JP but they are either good at killing medium tanks or heavies (or have other limitations) due to lower accuracy (especially on move) or lower penetration.

Not to get killed by what it's supposed to counter, as it happens way too often in live due to poor scouting options because it has barely anymore HP than a Stuart/Scott, now we might finally see it being an actually useful unit than something you build out of desperation because Sherman spam won't cut it.

1) M36 start with +5 visions bonus going up with veterancy (it even has bulletin for extra view).
2) My objection was not about HP buff but about the accuracy buff.
3)Sherman cut it just fine vs PZIVs and so does bazookas, atgs and Stuart.

My point is not that M36 should not be able to counter heavies/super heavies, my point is that it should not be able to snipe mediums doing 200 damage from range 55 with 100% chance by vet 2.

Lowering the accuracy will have very little chances vs heavies/supper heavies while it will give some breathing room to PZIVs.

120 ammo is just for the weapons that come along para. 500 MP is just too cheap. It can snowball pretty easy, and way more easier reducing it CP.

Also remember that it comes at a really weird time and paras are squishier than riflemen even at vet3.

So does Su-76, Stug, Panther, M10 and JP but they are either good at killing medium tanks or heavies (or have other limitations) due to lower accuracy (especially on move) or lower penetration.



1) M36 start with +5 visions bonus going up with veterancy (it even has bulletin for extra view).
2) My objection was not about HP buff but about the accuracy buff.
3)Sherman cut it just fine vs PZIVs and so does bazookas, atgs and Stuart.

My point is not that M36 should not be able to counter heavies/super heavies, my point is that it should not be able to snipe mediums doing 200 damage from range 55 with 100% chance by vet 2.

Lowering the accuracy will have very little chances vs heavies/supper heavies while it will give some breathing room to PZIVs.

But again, all those listed units have non doctrinal alternatives to fill in the gap. Jackson doesn't. I get where you're coming from, but there's really no alternative for AT vehicles period (emphasis on AT, not anti-light stuart).

So does Su-76, Stug, Panther, M10 and JP but they are either good at killing medium tanks or heavies (or have other limitations) due to lower accuracy (especially on move) or lower penetration.



1) M36 start with +5 visions bonus going up with veterancy (it even has bulletin for extra view).
2) My objection was not about HP buff but about the accuracy buff.
3)Sherman cut it just fine vs PZIVs and so does bazookas, atgs and Stuart.

My point is not that M36 should not be able to counter heavies/super heavies, my point is that it should not be able to snipe mediums doing 200 damage from range 55 with 100% chance by vet 2.

Lowering the accuracy will have very little chances vs heavies/supper heavies while it will give some breathing room to PZIVs.

Are you really bring up an Intel Bulletin into discussion? Seriously?
The Jackson deserves all the buffs it's getting, as it's also getting a hefty cost increase, it's USF only lategame vehicle that has only one job, I don't see why it shouldn't be above average at it.
It's the thing USF lategame is missing to be decent without commanders and it might be needed now that Armor is gonna get nerfed.

Are you really bring up an Intel Bulletin into discussion? Seriously?
The Jackson deserves all the buffs it's getting, as it's also getting a hefty cost increase, it's USF only lategame vehicle that has only one job, I don't see why it shouldn't be above average at it.
It's the thing USF lategame is missing to be decent without commanders and it might be needed now that Armor is gonna get nerfed.

His point is the jackson is way to effective at countering mediums whilst USF have AT guns, bazookas and shermans for that. Also the Jackson has insane accuracy and dont forget it also has 0.75 accuracy on the move compared most other tanks at 0.5.

Man these USF changes are so good! You guys are doing a great job! I love the new Jackson!

Still, I like to point to the predator cloak on the Jagdpanzer IV and not being able to hit it reliably with attack ground when it is cloaked. Is this something you guys can fix? That would be really great!

His point is the jackson is way to effective at countering mediums whilst USF have AT guns, bazookas and shermans for that. Also the Jackson has insane accuracy and dont forget it also has 0.75 accuracy on the move compared most other tanks at 0.5.

Maybe in the mod,because in live you need to be extremely careful with it, as a single PZ4 sneaking up to it will usually beat it in a duel, USF needs a unit to be their heavy duty AT unit and the Jackson is perfect to fill in that role and give USF a better shot at closing games.

Still, I like to point to the predator cloak on the Jagdpanzer IV and not being able to hit it reliably with attack ground when it is cloaked. Is this something you guys can fix? That would be really great!

Not possible. That's something that only Relic can ever fix.

Yeah that didnt even make me mad though. The game was over at that point anyways. Are you my secret fanboy or why the hell are you watching my scrub games?? lol

was bored and one of the opponents was my friend on steam

There's a whole lot of talk about medium and heavy tanks but I don't think there's about clear consensus, let alone a definition, of what functionally delineates a tank as such.

What 'heavies' were/are panthers struggling to fight?
Were Jacksons struggling against tigers? KTs? Or is it specifically JTS and Elefants?
How about Brummbars?

What makes a heavy tank a heavy tank and what makes a medium a medium?

Are the differences between them functionally meaningful? I argue that they are not. Just like how 'elite' infantry is technically meaningless, trying to balance unit performance against mediums or heavies doesn't seem useful. The mechanics of this game, especially with armored units, are based around positioning and maneuverability. The differences between armor values, penetration, rear armor, just aren't significant enough. Su76s can and do penetrate tiger frontal armor. All infantry at weapons deal guaranteed (deflection) damage.

Also whether or not a unit has a turret does not seem to be nearly as important a factor as it should be. But I think that has to do with reasons that will never be addressed for this game at this rate.

was bored and one of the opponents was my friend on steam

Uhh...you have your excuses lined up. Just admit you wanted to see me play the game with absolute perfection.

Haven't playtested yet, however I have the fear that we will see oberspam + double jp4 in every game now and even less p4 and panthers with the t4 upgrade change.

Even if it's not that expensive, such updates have the tendency to create tunnelvision with players (a phenomenon which for example also leads to mindless spam of call in tanks even if backtech would be strategically better). I think it's more psychologically. people tend to spam units instead of upgrades

I suggest making the deploy 150mp/90fu and the upgrade 50mp/30fu to prevent this behaviour

Maybe in the mod,because in live you need to be extremely careful with it, as a single PZ4 sneaking up to it will usually beat it in a duel, USF needs a unit to be their heavy duty AT unit and the Jackson is perfect to fill in that role and give USF a better shot at closing games.

This is thread about the MOD and the changes that come with part of which is increasing the M36 accuracy that will allow it (by vet 2) to hit a 222 at range 55 with 94% chance.

The unit does not need and accuracy buff instead it needs an accuracy nerf. It will still be able to hit the heavy tanks but it will simply not be able to snipe medium tank from max with 100% chances (vet 2)

There has been a trend of increasing the accuracy of TDs (Su-85,Su-76,M10,M36) which creates allot of problems and offers nothing in return.

There has been a trend of increasing the accuracy of TDs (Su-85,Su-76,M10,M36) which creates allot of problems and offers nothing in return.

Given the SU-76 got a substantial penetration nerf, it needs accuracy or it would not be reliable in its primary role. The unit itself doesn't deal a lot of damage unless used in batteries and is very vulnerable to flanks or exploding to AT in general.

The M10 got a boost to mid-range accuracy since it's now being restricted by the call-in changes and the unit in general already has less accuracy than traditional TDs.

SU-85 would be very meh without good accuracy. It already needs more shots to kill the heavier tanks and is a casemate TD which can't really chase. Sure it can take on mediums, but fighting vehicles and tanks is the only thing this unit can do aside from its clunky spotting mechanics.

M36 could possibly see a far nerf, depending, but it's still USF's only primary AT vehicle. No Stuarts, Shermans do not count as they are AV (not AT) or a generalist. Also zooks and ATGs are not exactly mobile enough to chase unless the opponent dives in with tanks.

If you really hate the TDs so much, fight them with inf or ATGs that forces them to back off. Mediums aren't useless as they are still very potent against infantry, respond quickly to harassment, protect core elements of the army by acting as an anchor and can harm TDs if they get around. This isn't a 1v1 game where everything is taken in a vacuum.

This is thread about the MOD and the changes that come with part of which is increasing the M36 accuracy that will allow it (by vet 2) to hit a 222 at range 55 with 94% chance.

The unit does not need and accuracy buff instead it needs an accuracy nerf. It will still be able to hit the heavy tanks but it will simply not be able to snipe medium tank from max with 100% chances (vet 2)

There has been a trend of increasing the accuracy of TDs (Su-85,Su-76,M10,M36) which creates allot of problems and offers nothing in return.

I fail to see the problem with an specialized AT vehicle doing it's job well, specially if kept alived and vet'd up, did I miss some kind of memo where it's stated that USF must have inferior tools? Because I see nothing wrong with the Jackson being USF's Agresssive Firefly.

I fail to see the problem with an specialized AT vehicle doing it's job well, specially if kept alived and vet'd up, did I miss some kind of memo where it's stated that USF must have inferior tools? Because I see nothing wrong with the Jackson being USF's Agresssive Firefly.

Yes. USF must have worse everything and have the most random-ass handicaps. Because reasons.

I fail to see the problem with an specialized AT vehicle doing it's job well, specially if kept alived and vet'd up, did I miss some kind of memo where it's stated that USF must have inferior tools? Because I see nothing wrong with the Jackson being USF's Agresssive Firefly.

if you seriously cannot see the problem with this ((by vet 2) to hit a 222 at range 55 with 94% chance), then your honestly just being completely ignorant. It has nothing to do this nonsense about "inferior tools" srsly dude, are vehicle repair crews and 0.75 moving acc inferior to you? something only USF have.

Jadpazner and stug are specialized AT vehicles, should they be able to shut down every single allied tank? no
why? because balance.

As of this moment Jackson's accuracy is way too high with vet 2. Can you imagine it chasing down tanks (thx to the health buff) with its 0.75 mov accuracy vs the poor tanks with 0.5. it'll be a nightmare

in case you didn't see.....

Vehicle Range // accuracy // accuracy on move // accuracy bonuses
Stug // 50 // 6%/5%/4% // 0.50% //
Panther // 50 // 6%/4.50%/3% // 0.50% //
JP // 60 // 6%/5%/4% // 0.50% // x115% vet 4
Firefly // 60 // 8%/7%/5% // 0.75% // x130% vet 3
Su-85 // 60 // 5.50%/4.50%/4% // 0.50% // x130% vet 2
M36 // 60 // 5%/4.50%/3.50% // 0.75% // x130% vet 2
M36 AP // 60 // 6%/5%/4% // 0.75% // x130% vet 2

Yes. USF must have worse everything and have the most random-ass handicaps. Because reasons.

WTF are you talking about? what handicaps? USF have a powerful early-mid game its only ther lategame that sucked and jackson got its well needed health buff so it can slug it out with axis tanks. Now that they can actually survive their vet (such as the accuracy buff) needs to brought in line so the tank can actually miss like every other tank in this game.

if you seriously cannot see the problem with this ((by vet 2) to hit a 222 at range 55 with 94% chance), then your honestly just being completely ignorant. It has nothing to do this nonsense about "inferior tools" srsly dude, are vehicle repair crews and 0.75 moving acc inferior to you? something only USF have.

Jadpazner and stug are specialized AT vehicles, should they be able to shut down every single allied tank? no
why? because balance.

As of this moment Jackson's accuracy is way too high with vet 2. Can you imagine it chasing down tanks (thx to the health buff) with its 0.75 mov accuracy vs the poor tanks with 0.5. it'll be a nightmare

in case you didn't see.....

Vehicle Range // accuracy // accuracy on move // accuracy bonuses
Stug // 50 // 6%/5%/4% // 0.50% //
Panther // 50 // 6%/4.50%/3% // 0.50% //
JP // 60 // 6%/5%/4% // 0.50% // x115% vet 4
Firefly // 60 // 8%/7%/5% // 0.75% // x130% vet 3
Su-85 // 60 // 5.50%/4.50%/4% // 0.50% // x130% vet 2
M36 // 60 // 5%/4.50%/3.50% // 0.75% // x130% vet 2
M36 AP // 60 // 6%/5%/4% // 0.75% // x130% vet 2

Ever tried killing a JP4 at Vet2 in game?
Yeah, the JP4 can totally shut-down USF armor, in 1vs1 at least.
And what you bring up is exactly what the Team wanted to happen, they turned it into a Slugger unit, to chase enemy tanks with decent durability and good moving accuracy.