The Reason Why OKW and USF Tend to Spam/Blob Infantry

The reason why OKW and USF tend to spam/blob infantry is due to fact of inaccessibility of support weapons. The fuel delay cost of the M2B is 50 fuel and the MG 34 is at least 40 fuel with both being a huge amount of research time or deploy time. This is why four volks and riflemen is a very common opener because there are no other openers. Unless you save up the manpower for the weapon teams but that is huge investment and gamble. And when you do have access to these support weapons, you can not really afford them do the upkeep costs of the new weapons. Additionally, elite infantry have hard time to shine with these factions because they have to compete with their own standard infantry that is already out. Here are my suggestions for each faction.

USF

Split the Lieutenant building into 2 parts

Partially Activated 200 manpower, 30 fuel, ~30 research time.
-M2B HMG
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-M1 AT gun

-Mortar
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-M20 Utility Car
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-Rear Echelon Flamers?
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Fully Activated 200 manpower, 30 fuel, ? research time.
-Lieutenant
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-M15 AA Halftrack

-To add a third item M3 Halftrack?


Captain
The pack Howie in real life could have been used a direct fire piece also. This unit could be changed to a narrowed arch farther reaching AT gun. With it being 75mm, compared to the 57mm AT gun, it could also have a higher penetration rate allowing for stronger AT guns to help deal with higher armored opponents.
Technical details:
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With the M1 AT gun gone from the captain, he may need another item to round out his composition such as either an M3 halftrack or make the M10 non doctrinal with a bit of a rework to match the performance of a puma.


Assault Engineers
To allow other non-riflemen tactics change the target size from 1 to .91.

Pathfinders
To allow other non-riflemen tactics change the reinforcement costs from 37 to 30



OKW
First I would change the starting unit from the Sturmpioneer to a volks squad due to the over performing nature of the Sturmpioneer at this timing.

Next I would add three upgrades to the HQ.

Medics, 250 manpower (equal to the soviets) This will help reduce the must need for Battle Group HQ.

Initial Battlephase 200 manpower, 30 fuel, ~30 research time.
-this upgrade would unlock Raketenwerfer, MG 34, Panzerfausts, and SWS Halftracks
This will help reduce the very powerful HQ rushes that either instantly win or lose the game.

Infantry Weapons 200 Manpower, 20 fuel
-This will allow access to the various infantry upgrades. Volk's incendiary grenades and STG 44s. Sturm Pios Flamer, and Panzerscheck.

The Volks incendiary grenades poorly designed. It makes the squad no different than riflemen and penal flamers in the fact they can deny all cover. They are quick, have little time for response and in live are free with out additional teching. There are three options or a combination I can see to fix this.

1. Add a fuse. (This will allow time to dodge the grenade while still acting as a garrison clear.)
2. Remove initial damage
3. Increase wind up time.

Sturmpioneers
With Feuerstorm, they have 3 upgrades. Now with my suggestion of not intial unit, they are even more taxed.

-Minesweeper, in order to release pressure off this upgrade demos need a rework.
-Panzershreck, in order to release pressure off this upgrade I suggest on adding a PzB39 upgrade to Obers. (see below for more details.)

-Non-doctrinal flamer, this would actually increase pressure on the squad but would allow an alternive garrsion clear other than Liegs and incendiary grenades

The doctrinal flamer slot, I would replace it with a GrW Mortar team with access to munitions to incendiary rounds like the mortar halftrack. (1 Command point) (The is also a speech Code for this, so no longer of all generic voice lines.)

Raketenwerfer
Make the cloak Vet 1


Battlegroup HQ (Med HQ)
Now that medics are now available from T0 Battlegroup HQ needs something to make it more attractive.

-Forward retreat point and medics merge to one upgrade from the cost 250 manpower, 50 fuel.

-Lieg
Add a smoke barrage

-Flak Halftrack
due to the later timing I would change it health from 2 AT gun shots to 2 AT gun shots plus a snare in order to make it more resilient because it can even be damage by rifles.

-Move Obersoldaten
Their standard timing is too late in the game for them make a real impact
add a PzB39 AT rifle upgrade
3-4 AT rifles equal to guards but with higher accuracy so it does not remove too much anti infantry on a 400 manpower unit.


Mech HQ
Various fuel costs may need to be adjusted to match other timings with other factions.
-Add Opel Blitz
A good Alternative to Cashes

With this, I would remove non doctrinal salvage and replace the Thorough Salvage with the standard Salvage. In most situations Thorough Salvage is actually a problem because it takes longer.


With this additionally initial costs, The Panzer 4, and Panther could use a fuel cost decrease equal to Ostheer in order to match it's counterparts.

At this point this is how I feel about balancing CoH2:

https://xkcd.com/927/

I'd be down. FRPs are getting removed though, and like you said, fuel costs will need to be adjusted.

Stop forcing free squads if I don't want them than it's fine.

Stop forcing free squads if I don't want them than it's fine.

They could make the second tier of lt only cost fuel, and add the officer as a 200(?) mp unit on first purchase, with replacements being more. Or split it 100 mp for both. Idk. I feel like free infantry squads is dumb, but usf has to buy so much other support shit too. What if you got like nades or racks with tech, or a free ambulance?

I agree about the MG34 hitting the field too late to be effective.

As for the. 50, well since it doubles as a soft vehicle counter it's price and research is sort of justified.

Replace it with a 30 cal, for which there is already a model for in the game, just needs animating, and making it early access could definitely work without it being OP.

I agree about the MG34 hitting the field too late to be effective.

As for the. 50, well since it doubles as a soft vehicle counter it's price and research is sort of justified.

Replace it with a 30 cal, for which there is already a model for in the game, just needs animating, and making it early access could definitely work without it being OP.

Yeah t0 access to .50 would probably be too op. Does usf really need another weird neutered team weapon though (@81mm mortar). I think making volley fire better/usable would be a better alternative, since RE spam isn't really a problem and they are easily the worst starting unit anyway.

I'd be down. FRPs are getting removed though, and like you said, fuel costs will need to be adjusted.

Source?

Disagree with USF teching changes. Their flavor is tiers being expensive but totally self reliant. If anything the Captain tier needs to swap the .50 cal and AT gun, while giving the .50 cal a cost buff due to its later timing.

So you pick between M20, AT gun, M15 (which should be 40 fuel alongside OKW flaktrack) or HMG, Stuart, Pack Howie. This way tiers are more independent and synergy is increased. (.50 pins Infantry for howie, Stuart protects against vehicles. AT gun protects M20 and M15 while they do what they do.)

OKW changes are decent but the only changes really needed are core infantry nerfs and addition of more combined arms. I'd be for a significant Volk nerf to 280 MP if the MG34 was available from the start. Then you work on giving the ISG smoke, swapping Obers and walking Stuka, making non BHQ tech more viable, and so on.

I agree with your premise that blobbing comes from a lack of support weapons, but it also comes from an inability to play correctly. Have lots of Riffle or Volks is great if you use them correctly to apply pressure everywhere all the time, which IMHO is what the factions are best at and most fun when played.

Occasionally I also see blobs of Tommys and now we see blobs of Penals, so modding each side is futile when it's the core mechanic that needs a change.

I suspect the easiest fix to this is to simple apply some kind of blob debuff aura, say when more than 3 squads are in a very tight area they get the debuff. No need to make any serious game alerting changes or change every team around, this would be universal.

Noobs/lazies can still blob then but they will learn fast that it's an ineffective way to play.

Yeah t0 access to .50 would probably be too op. Does usf really need another weird neutered team weapon though (@81mm mortar). I think making volley fire better/usable would be a better alternative, since RE spam isn't really a problem and they are easily the worst starting unit anyway.

Personally, I don't think so, since the riflemen are in a good spot. I just wanna see them animate the. 30 cal for use in mods lol.

Source?

Should have been clearer: mod team is planning on removing FRPs(I believe in all factions) as stated in the EFA revamp thread by miragefla, which isn't official or anything, but they are the ones who will be steering any future changes (if such a thing ever happens).

Yeah lets make the entire OKW faction a side teching fiesta. We should also give the p4 a side tech upgrade. If you get the normal p4, it comes with a gun crit. If you spend an extra 250 mp and 50 fuel, you get a working gun.

I like the suggestions, but why does the entire OKW faction have to be side tech?

Yeah lets make the entire OKW faction a side teching fiesta. We should also give the p4 a side tech upgrade. If you get the normal p4, it comes with a gun crit. If you spend an extra 250 mp and 50 fuel, you get a working gun.

I like the suggestions, but why does the entire OKW faction have to be side tech?

I am only suggesting one side tech option, and that is for the infantry upgrades. The Initial Upgrade for tech advancing is a linear upgrade. So speaking in terms for other games it would be Tier 0.5.

There is the short barreled P4. It uses the P4 body but with an animator so an upgrade like this is possible.

Yeah t0 access to .50 would probably be too op. Does usf really need another weird neutered team weapon though (@81mm mortar). I think making volley fire better/usable would be a better alternative, since RE spam isn't really a problem and they are easily the worst starting unit anyway.

First off, I am not saying adding any T0 weapon teams. There is a teching cost. Plus, USF already has a T0 mg, the Fighting Position.
Rear Echelon tend to be than pioneers and combat engineers, especially since they always equip duel bazookas plus a minesweeper.

I agree with your premise that blobbing comes from a lack of support weapons, but it also comes from an inability to play correctly. Have lots of Riffle or Volks is great if you use them correctly to apply pressure everywhere all the time, which IMHO is what the factions are best at and most fun when played.

Occasionally I also see blobs of Tommys and now we see blobs of Penals, so modding each side is futile when it's the core mechanic that needs a change.

I suspect the easiest fix to this is to simple apply some kind of blob debuff aura, say when more than 3 squads are in a very tight area they get the debuff. No need to make any serious game alerting changes or change every team around, this would be universal.

Noobs/lazies can still blob then but they will learn fast that it's an ineffective way to play.

Believe it or not blobbing is an legitimate strategy, and there are proper counters. Aoe attacks, mines, and MGs. If snares were not as effective, then tanks and other vehicles would have a bit more breathing room, because currently their range is just does not allow them fight as they should.

Disagree with USF teching changes. Their flavor is tiers being expensive but totally self reliant. If anything the Captain tier needs to swap the .50 cal and AT gun, while giving the .50 cal a cost buff due to its later timing.

So you pick between M20, AT gun, M15 (which should be 40 fuel alongside OKW flaktrack) or HMG, Stuart, Pack Howie. This way tiers are more independent and synergy is increased. (.50 pins Infantry for howie, Stuart protects against vehicles. AT gun protects M20 and M15 while they do what they do.)

OKW changes are decent but the only changes really needed are core infantry nerfs and addition of more combined arms. I'd be for a significant Volk nerf to 280 MP if the MG34 was available from the start. Then you work on giving the ISG smoke, swapping Obers and walking Stuka, making non BHQ tech more viable, and so on.

The switching the AT gun and HMG could work also. Though I would like to see some changes to the M20 to more focus on the support role. I would like to see the Flamethrower under the Lieutenant to add additional garrison clear option from the short range mortar option.
The M15 cost is fine in my opinion because it so much better. The flak halftrack is pretty unresponsive unit, while the M15 also instantly shoots down aircraft.

I am only suggesting one side tech option, and that is for the infantry upgrades. The Initial Upgrade for tech advancing is a linear upgrade. So speaking in terms for other games it would be Tier 0.5.

There is the short barreled P4. It uses the P4 body but with an animator so an upgrade like this is possible.

These are the kind of side techs I like to see haha

Good proposal overall. I'm all for balancing AT and suppression options between USF tiers.

Why does LT have both AAHT and HMG, while Cpt have access to zook (without racks) and AT gun?

Good proposal overall. I'm all for balancing AT and suppression options between USF tiers.

Why does LT have both AAHT and HMG, while Cpt have access to zook (without racks) and AT gun?

This. Very good idea.

Using 3 stages of tech instead of 4 was a bad idea

Using 3 stages of tech instead of 4 was a bad idea

Getting rid of the 'fifth' tech, the supply yard/kampfkraft center, wasn't so hot either.

Good proposal overall. I'm all for balancing AT and suppression options between USF tiers.

Why does LT have both AAHT and HMG, while Cpt have access to zook (without racks) and AT gun?

As much as I understand the thought process behind such design the idea is that:
1. There must be a reason to back tech
2. You are supposed to supplement lacks of your army composition with commanders
3. You can choose the tier that counters opponents strategy

Somebody can say that this narrows the number of commanders that are worth using. But then you can look at axis factions, which both have counters to every possible threat in their early tiers and still use same commanders over and over again.