DevM vs. VonIvan reffing and player decision re: bugsplat

Unlocking

Please play nicely with each other.

It's been a good tourney from what I've been able to watch.Lessons learned in this I hope.

To all the haters (10 people): try organising somethint big yourself and then come back to me.

Cya guys at the finals

With all respect, I hope you don't count me, Cruzzi, Tasinia and few other people who shown their views about the situation in a polite way as haters. I can say for myself and I think also many other posters in this thread, that whatever we said here was only aimed to make future tournaments even better than the one we are experiencing at the moment. Especially as improving rules of future tournaments is also big part of opening post.

I also hope that A_E, Stormless and all the other people that may have felt discouraged by this thread are not going to be. I'm a huge fan of A_E and even though he makes mistakes like every other human being, if I was to choose the person to organise another community founded tournament I would definitely choose him among all curent community members. There is nobody else as trustworthy and passionate about the game.

The best decision would have been to have a rematch. Devm picked the same faction and map, so it pretty much was a rematch. Everything worked out in the end.


Vonivan was clearly going to lose this game. The ability to rematch obviously would have helped him, given he would have been out of the tourney if devm had won the game. Devm did get the bugsplat, but he would have otherwise won this match. Having to rematch evens the field. It is the most fair way to do it, given the circumstances of the match. A learning lesson for future tournaments.

Its sad how many people are furious with AE. He did his best in a tough situation and it turned out all right. Good decision made imo. However I think it should've been a rematch with no faction or map choice for DevM since he didn't show proof of the bugsplat. I also disagree with Cruzz about it being his PC that's the problem. I know loads of people with amazing PCs that get bugsplats as well. It's COH2 not the PC. I can see why Von would be miffed at the decision since he's the kind of player that never surrenders or admits defeat. Although I don't think he had much of a chance and he knew it. He was very respectful in the chat too.

I understand u might have felt silenced even though imo it was clear that it wasnt aimed at you. But you agreed to the terms. It says clear in the chat. You also got to say your opinion, i even asked for it two times bcs u were so silent but u either didnt react or said "im speecheless". And then u said something with karma rng gods, can i take that serious at that moment? :/

I understand you might have felt a bit meh, but shut down? No, i even asked you to talk but you didnt man

With how the situation was handled after wards you mean ae leaving some stuff out in chat. I dont see any misleading things though? Yes leaving things out is never good, but it didnt mislead anyone... AE always has been honest while organising and did everything public. The only thing he did was leaving a few messages out which werent important for the red line of the story. And now he is trying to mislead people?
For real :/

As I was saying, I did explain my opinion but was disagreed with 3 to 1, which I wouldn't mind if it weren't for the bias presented during the stream by A_E before the game was even played, and how you agreed with him. I was unaware of these additional details until after the tournament games concluded, in the clips provided below.




https://clips.twitch.tv/EvilColdBeefWutFace

https://clips.twitch.tv/TawdryLazyInternTwitchRPG

I would not have accepted the conditions had I known I was allowed to press my opinion after (stfu), especially since it was said after DevM had stated his opinion, uninterupted. Not to mention what is seen in the clips provided.

Rules were also clearly broken, and had it been any other player I suspect a different scenario would have arisen.

What's done is done and I enjoyed this tournament that I unfortunately couldn't have attended. As they say my two cents after seeing clearly both VonIvan and DeVM read and agreed to restart the game after each match and in the rules that state if someone crashes it would result in a lose or up to the players then go to the ref if there isn't a agreement. Now when DevM bug splatted it could have been prevented if he restarted the game but he didn't and to add to that he didn't screenshot the bug splat which is EXTREMELY important. He didn't follow certain rules and he should be hold accountable for doing so. Now VonIvan was in a daunting position but comebacks can happen as this is Coh2 after all when the most astounding comebacks happen. VonIvan could've spoken up more in these conversation and there was misunderstandings.

Saying that, it looked like the rules were bent into DeVM favor after all he didn't follow certain guidelines. Even when VonIvan was given the win handing someone the choice of faction AND map is a massive advantage. Mistakes happen however and it's understandable for everyone involved to be under stress in such a situation which people have to consider.

Rules were also clearly broken, and had it been any other player I suspect a different scenario would have arisen.

This this this!

As I was saying, I did explain my opinion but was disagreed with 3 to 1, which I wouldn't mind if it weren't for the bias presented during the stream by A_E before the game was even played, and how you agreed with him. I was unaware of these additional details until after the tournament games concluded, in the clips provided below.




https://clips.twitch.tv/EvilColdBeefWutFace

https://clips.twitch.tv/TawdryLazyInternTwitchRPG

I would not have accepted the conditions had I known I was allowed to press my opinion after (stfu), especially since it was said after DevM had stated his opinion, uninterupted. Not to mention what is seen in the clips provided.

Rules were also clearly broken, and had it been any other player I suspect a different scenario would have arisen.

I have the feeling you didnt line everything,because if you only look at the things you underlined you get a different story bcs you dont see the other messages. I played against aimstrong, i didnt feel any bias towards him or me during these matches. I think you are trying to make some things way bigger then they are without seeing the full picture here. And for the record, say you would have been playing luvnest: i personally would have let luvnest continue bcs it was clear he won that game. You should be happy you got a second chance and again im sorry if somehow we made you feel bad even though i dont see how...

With all respect, I hope you don't count me, Cruzzi, Tasinia and few other people who shown their views about the situation in a polite way as haters. I can say for myself and I think also many other posters in this thread, that whatever we said here was only aimed to make future tournaments even better than the one we are experiencing at the moment. Especially as improving rules of future tournaments is also big part of opening post.

I also hope that A_E, Stormless and all the other people that may have felt discouraged by this thread are not going to be. I'm a huge fan of A_E and even though he makes mistakes like every other human being, if I was to choose the person to organise another community founded tournament I would definitely choose him among all curent community members. There is nobody else as trustworthy and passionate about the game.

I'm not, constructive feedback is always welcome . With haters i mean people who start literally screaming around "untrue" things without having a clue of what the talk about because thats what they always do...

No hate to the constructive feedback people

I have the feeling you didnt line everything,because if you only look at the things you underlined you get a different story bcs you dont see the other messages. I played against aimstrong, i didnt feel any bias towards him or me during these matches. I think you are trying to make some things way bigger then they are without seeing the full picture here. And for the record, say you would have been playing luvnest: i personally would have let luvnest continue bcs it was clear he won that game. You should be happy you got a second chance and again im sorry if somehow we made you feel bad even though i dont see how...

The other messages can be seen, I'm merely pointing out the most crucial messages which determined the sequence of events that did occur. I know both you and A_E keep repeating "the rules are in favor of DevM, we gave you a favor", however the rules, from what I read, state to restart the game after every match, and report bugsplat screens, neither of which were done when DevM was giving his opinion. As well as what I have posted above, showing clearly stated bias, word for word, as well as words which, while if they were actually "be quiet", I would have understood the meaning moreover than "shut the fuck up", be it coming right after my opinions were being stated, not after DevM's opinions were being stated. If A_E had said "shut the fuck up everyone", then the message would have been clearer.

Thus, I feel I have been lied to, when A_E posted this thread while changing the chat logs to show that "be quiet" is replacing "shut the fuck up". As well as my understanding of what was said by A_E during the stream clearly stating DevM would "defeat me that game, and defeat me in game 5" before the game was even played. I don't know how much more clearly I can state the obvious issue at hand.

I also feel cheated, considering the rules were altered and broken without reasonable cause and by someone stating bias'd intentions on a public stream while making a very important decision.
https://clips.twitch.tv/TawdryLazyInternTwitchRPG

The other messages can be seen, I'm merely pointing out the most crucial messages which determined the sequence of events that did occur. I know both you and A_E keep repeating "the rules are in favor of DevM, we gave you a favor", however the rules, from what I read, state to restart the game after every match, and report bugsplat screens, neither of which were done when DevM was giving his opinion. As well as what I have posted above, showing clearly stated bias, word for word, as well as words which, while if they were actually "be quiet", I would have understood the meaning moreover than "shut the fuck up", be it coming right after my opinions were being stated, not after DevM's opinions were being stated. If A_E had said "shut the fuck up everyone", then the message would have been clearer.

Thus, I feel I have been lied to, when A_E posted this thread while changing the chat logs to show that "be quiet" is replacing "shut the fuck up". As well as my understanding of what was said by A_E during the stream clearly stating DevM would "defeat me that game, and defeat me in game 5" before the game was even played. I don't know how much more clearly I can state the obvious issue at hand.

I also feel cheated, considering the rules were altered and broken without reasonable cause and by someone stating bias'd intentions on a public stream while making a very important decision.
https://clips.twitch.tv/TawdryLazyInternTwitchRPG

The rules were not broken. The rules simply state that if there is no agreement the referees will decide who was winning or say the game should be restarted. That is the full intent of them as written anyway.

Based on that and my interpretation of that it was pretty obvious DevM should have been given the win. Which obviously would have rubbed people up the wrong way.

But no, you were given the win.

You were given the win.

You.

Were.

Given the win.

And now you're pretending you were hard done to. It defies all logic.

yeah Vonivan was given the win, but then Vonivan suffered for devm's bugsplat, which should of been screen shot'ed so Devm failed to meet an important rule of the tourney and he knows coh2 has had a bad rep of performance and it hasn't changed since the time DevM has taken off from playing coh2 before GCS. Then you tied to denine vonivan hes right to speak out. Idk this could of been handle better if a second refferee was on the scene incase something like this happened. Really the casters should cast and let the refrees do the busy. By finals I would like to see a new set of Reff's with no biasis what so every "A new fresh pair of eye's" and the rules to be made clear and if one player dosn't follow a single rule then give them a lose.

Maybe I don't understand because I'm just a casual game watcher and not involved in the "scene", and don't usually visit gaming forums because they are pure cancer. But I don't understand the issue here!? DevM clearly had G4 in the bag, but AE did absolutely the right thing and gave Von the win anyway, as per the rules...


And then g5 wound up being a direct rematch anyway...


How is there an issue? This was a perfect execution of a difficult situation. I literally cannot think of a better outcome.

AE, awesome job, I'm absolutely LOVING this tournament. You guys are doing a stellar job, thanks!

So really this just boils down to lack of evidence of the bugsplat occuring and failing to communicated with vonIvan.

The only thing that can be done now is make sure this never happens again.

Bottom line is, if a bugsplat happens again their has to be evidence.

Why does the bug report matter though? Sure, if DevM were on the back foot and it was a very even match, but proof of the bugsplat is entirely immaterial given the circumstances.

Why does the bug report matter though? Sure, if DevM were on the back foot and it was a very even match, but proof of the bugsplat is entirely immaterial given the circumstances.

Would of saved all this trouble wouldn't it?

I can see VonIvans point but I feel he's becoming stubborn, he got his point accross but now seems to be trying to find something to salvage from all of this.

Nothing can change now, only to accept what has happened, take it into account and move on.

I feel like people are getting too hung up on the PROCESS when it's the OUTCOME that matters, and g5 was clearly the right outcome.

Yeah the process sucked and will be improved upon in the future, that was what I made clear in the post. However the outcome was a fair and just rematch of g4. So I'm confident for the majority of people, the integrity of the result is not in doubt.

For what it's worth:

I was rooting for VonIvan, but DevM played brilliantly and in the end I'm fairly confident he'd take the win and advance to the finals no matter what happened.

HOWEVER

Using Formula 1 as an analogy:

If a driver's in the lead for 90% of the race, feeling confident, cruising to what's looking like a smooth victory but suddenly, his engine goes boom and the driver's forced to retire, what happens then?
Usually, the guy behind takes the win and, due to F1 regulations, the driver previously in front gets a grid penalty for having to swap engines in order to compete in the next race event.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127346

Considering DevM as Lewis Hamilton here for a minute, he obliterated Von's trucks (FeelsQuiteBadMan), had Von on the backfoot and then all of a sudden bugsplatted.

No matter how much DevM was leading this game, he crashed and was unable to finish game 4. In line with a lot of other tournaments, the person who bugsplats after a set amount of time is given the loss because they're effectively unable to finish the game. This should be quite obvious.

Considering Von still had the VP lead when his opponent dropped, it's weird to see that DevM had no "grid penalty" against him.

I do however somewhat understand the decisionmaking process as it happened. There were 1600 people watching the GCS semi finals, arguably making it the biggest CoH2 event as of yet.
Both AE and Stormless were doing a tremendous job, maintaining their high standards regarding production & casting quality. When something as unexpected, unique and unprecedented as that happens, shit can and will hit the fan.

I'm 100% certain that, despite AE's "bias" towards DevM, he'd never, ever deliberatly make a decision that disadvantages one of the players in his tournaments. He holds sportmanship and fairness in the highest regard but he's only human and at that time, we have to understand that he might have been under a tremendous amount of pressure to both carry on with the stream as it was at the time without causing unnessesary delays and helping make a very important decision in a split second.

What's done's been done. As I said, despite really wanting VonIvan to win, I'm sure enough that DevM would've won the series eventually so I don't think that the decision that's been made would have had such an enormous impact.

If there's any future big tournaments however, I would urge the organisers to make the rules regarding busplats crystal clear so that there won't be a discussion of any kind.

Let's close this, let AE and VonIvan discuss this in person and resolve the matter.
When I was in Leicester last year, Stormless and AE were able to impress both their ESL hosts and the people from Sega that were present. Those guys never thought that such a relative old and unknown game could attract such a crowd and have such a dedicated scene and fanbase.

With an even bigger event coming up, it's time to show those guys again how we resolve conflicts and mishaps.
And plot twist, it's not by writing consipracy theories on a public forum...

To quote our immortal, beloved and slightly awkward former community manager Noun (praise be upon him)

"Let's all be awesome together"