Forward retreat points.

It's my personal opinion that they should be totally removed for all factions that have them.

I think on both sides they encourage blobbing, and it really shows when a rifle/volk/tommy(?) blob retreats and then comes back literally like 15-20 seconds later, especially when playing as EFA or lacking a retreat point of one's own. I just feel that this is one of the things that encourages blobbing and should probably just get removed.

I think everyone should just get them. They're a risk/reward feature since you can easily arty them, and they help to alleviate the bore of retreating on massive maps like General Mud.

I think everyone should just get them. They're a risk/reward feature since you can easily arty them, and they help to alleviate the bore of retreating on massive maps like General Mud.

That's one side of it (I've had epic moments ambushing freshly retreated blobs of 1-2 man squads with commandos ) but the other side of it is that it still massively encourages blobbing and devalues forcing retreats and strategically pulling back. If vehicles had retreat buttons I think that a lot more dives would be going on. It's not quite comparable, but you get the idea. Actually, it's more like ridiculously fast repair speeds in the sense that it seriously mitigates the consequences of mistakes and/or downright bad play. I think a lot of people would think twice about blobbing up all their infantry and chucking them at the enemy if they couldn't just retreat and be back in 15 seconds to do it again.

they should add doc FRP to ostheer and soviet.

Well if we would just have the negative aura on models blobbing problem would have cured itself yesterday...

FRP is stupid and they need to go altogether. Promote blobing while having no consequences by just hitting the "T" button and get back 15 sec later. Also, it provide a huge infantry present advantage that seems like endless and very annoying to deal with.

I don't mind them, except they should all be of equal tier. OKW does not need it at T1. They already have an early strong game.

Well, maybe it promotes blobbing, maybe not (the FRP is closer, so easier to hit with some indirect fire), but removing it would promote a cancerous camp play, like the infamous MG covered by an MG, especially against USF who lack proper scouting tools.

I think everyone should just get them. They're a risk/reward feature since you can easily arty them, and they help to alleviate the bore of retreating on massive maps like General Mud.

Do you mind educating us about the non-doctrinal artillery tools of USF and UKF?

Do you mind educating us about the non-doctrinal artillery tools of USF and UKF?

For the USF, Major Arty is pretty good now. Pack Howitzer is also great. At vet 2, it is pretty much identical to heavy artillery. As for UKF, if the FRP is of any use to OKW, Mortar Pit can usually reach there.

I would start with limiting all FRP in adjust sectors to base sector.

For the USF, Major Arty is pretty good now. Pack Howitzer is also great. At vet 2, it is pretty much identical to heavy artillery. As for UKF, if the FRP is of any use to OKW, Mortar Pit can usually reach there.

The Major arty is not suited for fighting mobile troops (or killing units in general). It also requires to get up close which is kinda hard against a FRP. The Pack Howitzer is 11 pop cap, fires 3 (!) shots and gets decrewed easily. When you have range on the HQ with your mortar pit, the ISGs will have range on your pit too and an ISG that can reinforce wins against a mortar pit.

The Major arty is not suited for fighting mobile troops (or killing units in general). It also requires to get up close which is kinda hard against a FRP. The Pack Howitzer is 11 pop cap, fires 3 (!) shots and gets decrewed easily. When you have range on the HQ with your mortar pit, the ISGs will have range on your pit too and an ISG that can reinforce wins against a mortar pit.

You know, I expected something like this. Who said that artillery should be great at killing mobile troops(especially since you asked about killing FRP)? Pack Howitzer is good enough, maybe a little range increase on the auto-fire would be nice. Mostly, USF just go double mortars anyway. The Brits have no problem whatsoever with the "trench warfare" in CoH2. They are better suited to it than any Allied faction. And just so you know, when you see more OKW than Ost in the enemy team, MAYBE it would be suitable to go for a doctrine with artillery, like Infantry or Tactical Support, or any other with call-in artillery(Mechanized, Recon Support, Armor). There is more than enough artillery options for the Allies in this game.

USF and OKW have FRP but cannot reinforce anywhere on the field like Ostheer and Soviet do.
Soviet and Ostheer cannot build FRP but have access to half-track to reinforce anywhere on the field.

Imo the solution should be somewhere in the middle. Something that doesn't require a lot of rework on the current gamplay.

The problem with the OKW FRP is its early access and durability. The counter part is its immobile. Maybe Relic could move the FRP upgrade Tiers3 or after building all tiers.

USF FRP is mobile and squishy, I'm not sure if there is any issue with today but on the same way with OKW, the FRP could be available only after all tiers are up.

Soviet could have a FRP upgrade on its M5 with a similar deployment the USF ambulance has. Available after all tiers are up.

Ostheer could have the bunker or the SDFK doing similar, here again after all tiers are up.

Brit, I don't own them but it is probably possible to do something similar.

Ostheer and Brit should be the faction getting their FRP the later since they are the faction able to lock down territories for a good while.

USF has their reinforcement HT in very good doctrine.

You know, I expected something like this. Who said that artillery should be great at killing mobile troops(especially since you asked about killing FRP)? Pack Howitzer is good enough, maybe a little range increase on the auto-fire would be nice. Mostly, USF just go double mortars anyway. The Brits have no problem whatsoever with the "trench warfare" in CoH2. They are better suited to it than any Allied faction. And just so you know, when you see more OKW than Ost in the enemy team, MAYBE it would be suitable to go for a doctrine with artillery, like Infantry or Tactical Support, or any other with call-in artillery(Mechanized, Recon Support, Armor). There is more than enough artillery options for the Allies in this game.

When the hell do usf ever go double mortars? And have fun trying to get your major into range of their frp. That's the oddest thing I've ever heard. Plus, everyone's missing the point; it's not a question of who has them, how to counter them whether pak howie is balanced(?), it's just that they're stupid and encourage blobbing and shitty infantry play no matter which way you swing it.

remove

remove

Yeah. That was my point all along and a lot of people going off and saying "soviets could get frp from m5" or "arty counters it it's fine"

Wtf.

the key word here is "retreat"

I'd argue that a skillful user can use SOV and OST halftracks more effectively than FRPs. But it is a micro drain not only because you have to soft retreat and manage a fairly squishy vehicle but you can't afford to be suppressed. And there is an opportunity cost of not going Quad and Flame, which is big, proven by how many people including top players go for the upgrades. Also of course the fact that you cannot hard retreat to use this strat effectively.

That is why I think the SOV and OST halftrack reinforcing is balanced even if we remove FRP from other factions due to micro sink and opp. cost halftrack play style entails. and it's balanced.

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now Forward Retreat Points on the other hand does not let you reinforce at the frontline but let's you save anywhere from 20-60 seconds off of all your hard retreats. AND I do not want to remove FRP for balance reasons - I've dealt with it for 3 years, we all know how to counter it. What I don't like about FRP is that it is a very powerful tool that does not require micro and simply does not promote smart strategy or tactics - it promotes head butting gameplay and simply put, i don't think CoH2 should help those kind of stupid and depth-less playstyle.

So it's not really about balance, giving everybody FRPs whatnot, but rather looking at FRP and seeing if it promotes good fun gameplay or bad gameplay.

Yeah remove them and give all factions Ost/Soviet repair rates