How to counter turtling OKW

•  
  

  0

  VS

  Bravus

  Grumpy

  Review requested UKF vs OKW

  by: Grumpy map: Langreskaya

  1

  -

This game started okay, but as the OKW player built his sim city I couldn't figure out what to do.

Some questions:
Does the arty that the sniper can call in work okay against buildings/bunkers?
If I added Royal Artillery, would the Sexton work okay against buildings? I've tried it a few times against infantry and it was really bad.
Is there a particular commander that people have in their loadout for dealing with these situations?

To be honest, in my experience there's not much you can do once he gets his flakhq up if he goes double isgs and isn't a total idiot. Your best chance is to go AEC and really push hard in the mid game before he can get his flakhq up. I usually use commandos to break this, which can work up until he gets flakhq. By that time, you pretty much just have to deal with constant barrages for the rest of the game. The sniper arty is annoying at best, incosequential and laughable at worst, but is only 45 munitions. However, I think the flakhq has longer range than the sniper's throw range, which is dumb, and the sniper gets two shot. So if you can do it over a shot blocker or something that works best. If you can, it's probably worth constantly doing, since it's so cheap (15 more muni than a greanade lol)

I can watch this one tomorrow and give some feedback.

Early game wasn't bad, you end up with superior map control. But then, around minutes 7-9, you start sending squads alone into enemy territory against superior numbers and being forced back. At this point in the game, your mortar pit > his ISG. If you had pushed with your whole army (including your vickers) I think you could have handled his forces easily, especially considering he'd invested in an early raketen.

The mortar pit also goes down because you don't keep it alive. A second engie squad would have made that much easier, and you had the MP for it.

When the centaur comes out he has 1 shrek and one raketen (not that you can know that, which is why you should be peeking into enemy territory with your infantry more). It's a strong shock unit, and the AT he had could not have killed the centaur. This was your chance to push him off the fuel.

Your lack of a second engineer costs you precious centaur up time at around 16 min (you do eventually make another).

Another thing to consider is that you could have ignored his hard point and attacked his base from the south.

At 24 min in, you could have manueered the firefly out of the arc of the pak 43 and killed the bunker much quicker. Instead you have to waste a land matress barrage on it.

A lot of that is minor stuff. The main takeaways here should be:

Push harder when you have an advantage or a shock unit.

Scout more.

Take more care of your mortar pit/get a second engie squad.

1 mortar pit beats 1 ISG basically every time. With better barrage micro and more agression you could have decrewed his weapons teams, drove in with the bren, and won the game before 20 min. I would have remade a mortar pit once I realized he wasn't going to build a second ISG.

As a final note, I would have 3 tommies at all times, personally. If you don't at least have 2 tommies and 2 engies at all times; any less infantry than that and you're very limited in terms of battlefield options.

Early game wasn't bad, you end up with superior map control. But then, around minutes 7-9, you start sending squads alone into enemy territory against superior numbers and being forced back. At this point in the game, your mortar pit > his ISG. If you had pushed with your whole army (including your vickers) I think you could have handled his forces easily, especially considering he'd invested in an early raketen.

The mortar pit also goes down because you don't keep it alive. A second engie squad would have made that much easier, and you had the MP for it.

When the centaur comes out he has 1 shrek and one raketen (not that you can know that, which is why you should be peeking into enemy territory with your infantry more). It's a strong shock unit, and the AT he had could not have killed the centaur. This was your chance to push him off the fuel.

Your lack of a second engineer costs you precious centaur up time at around 16 min (you do eventually make another).

Another thing to consider is that you could have ignored his hard point and attacked his base from the south.

At 24 min in, you could have manueered the firefly out of the arc of the pak 43 and killed the bunker much quicker. Instead you have to waste a land matress barrage on it.

A lot of that is minor stuff. The main takeaways here should be:

Push harder when you have an advantage or a shock unit.

Scout more.

Take more care of your mortar pit/get a second engie squad.

1 mortar pit beats 1 ISG basically every time. With better barrage micro and more agression you could have decrewed his weapons teams, drove in with the bren, and won the game before 20 min. I would have remade a mortar pit once I realized he wasn't going to build a second ISG.

As a final note, I would have 3 tommies at all times, personally. If you don't at least have 2 tommies and 2 engies at all times; any less infantry than that and you're very limited in terms of battlefield options.

Thanks for looking at this. I've had several games like this as UKF where it starts okay, at least in terms of map control, and then slips away. I did watch one of Hans' games today and saw that he normally has 3 tommies and 2-3 engineers. I'll try more infantry and see how it goes.

Is the coordinated barrage from the sniper any good on emplacements?
Also, do you ever tech to Comets? In the one game I saw of Hans, he just did Cromwells but I don't know if that is just situational.

Thanks for looking at this. I've had several games like this as UKF where it starts okay, at least in terms of map control, and then slips away. I did watch one of Hans' games today and saw that he normally has 3 tommies and 2-3 engineers. I'll try more infantry and see how it goes.

Is the coordinated barrage from the sniper any good on emplacements?
Also, do you ever tech to Comets? In the one game I saw of Hans, he just did Cromwells but I don't know if that is just situational.

The range on the sniper arty is too small, and it's pretty rng based wether​you'll get good hits. I do tech to comet after one or two Cromwell, but usually it's better to try to end the game with the croms.

Special Weapons Regiment is by far the best commander for breaking up OKW Sim Cities IMO - the Concentrated Artillery off-map can comes close to taking off 80% of Flak HQ HP with favorable RNG and after that its just a simple matter of following up with an AT Gun or Tank. Best part is that Croc follow-up means you can hard counter Rakens while OKW is unable to build armor.

One thing to keep in mind is that most maps have a typical truck placement location - if you're proactive about poking that area periodically you can preemptively disrupt Sim City creation in the first place.

Special Weapons Regiment is by far the best commander for breaking up OKW Sim Cities IMO - the Concentrated Artillery off-map can comes close to taking off 80% of Flak HQ HP with favorable RNG and after that its just a simple matter of following up with an AT Gun or Tank. Best part is that Croc follow-up means you can hard counter Rakens while OKW is unable to build armor.

One thing to keep in mind is that most maps have a typical truck placement location - if you're proactive about poking that area periodically you can preemptively disrupt Sim City creation in the first place.

Just make sure he doesn't have command panther if you try this.

Usually you can tell where he's gonna put his schwerer if he goes isgs, because it most likely will placed to cover the isgs.

Special Weapons Regiment is by far the best commander for breaking up OKW Sim Cities IMO - the Concentrated Artillery off-map can comes close to taking off 80% of Flak HQ HP with favorable RNG and after that its just a simple matter of following up with an AT Gun or Tank. Best part is that Croc follow-up means you can hard counter Rakens while OKW is unable to build armor.

One thing to keep in mind is that most maps have a typical truck placement location - if you're proactive about poking that area periodically you can preemptively disrupt Sim City creation in the first place.

Does the first hit of Concentrated Arty hit in the exact spot where it is targeted (like Railway)?

Does the first hit of Concentrated Arty hit in the exact spot where it is targeted (like Railway)?

It's very similar to Railway- as far as I can tell it's not pinpoint exact like Railway but it has pretty low scatter overall and drops 4 shells instead of 3, which makes it great for tight clusters of ISG guns around a T4 + Battlegroup hardpoint. I also like to have it in my loadout for team games too - if you have another UKF player that goes heavy on emplacements then you can use it to counter the almost inevitable LeFH that the Axis will build to counter it. (Or against Fortifications Doctrine in general)

Hans used it several times in Game 2 against Barton in GCS if you want to check out a replay of it in action.