[BuildOrder]Red Army Blues

Never mind the title, this is a BO/Strat thread.

Since the full release of the game I've been, almost exclusively, playing as the Germans. Patch or not, even through the frustrating times of just being overrun completely time after time (pre-patch times).

Now the since the patch I've been reading, A LOT, of how Soviets are nerfed to hell, that it's impossible to win as Soviets and I don't even know. I guess with a fast P4 there is very little to do but I am of the opinion that you, as a Soviet player, have failed massively if the P4 is out before you have 1 or even 2 units out to counter it.

Now I don't have fancy pictures even if I wish I did to illustrate the BO but I might make them if this thread goes anywhere.

[Please bear in mind that I have no clue if this is "invented" by someone else, if it is please direct me in that way so I can give credit where it's due]

[And if this is to any degree original or someone wants to collab with me on elaborating this feel free to message me]

Early Game
Conscript -- Conscript -- Conscript -- Molotov -- AT-Nade

This is a very standard and versatile opening. The reason for this is that you'll in your opening few engagements will every time run into an MG/Gren combo.
Keep your conscripts together - but this doesn't mean keep them bunched up always imagine a ghostly MG42 lurking in the FOW and make sure you get one/two squads pinned that you can oorah and molotov the MG42. Remove that bastard from the field ASAP. 1-2 grens vs 3 conscripts will almost always end up in your favor. Especially when you have 1-2 more molotovs to burn the grens alive or chase them out of cover where they'll get critted to death in no time.

At this point in time. Do not get greedy. Push up, push up far but don't expect you can hold the whole map. 3 cons and 1 engy is a lot of capping power if you've chased of the germans into their base. Keep in mind that initially, especially on the bigger maps - IGNORE one side of the map. Make sure you lock right/left + the middle and cut germans off from their fuel (this is a priority). The german army doesn't spread out well in the early game so this is entirely viable.


Early/Mid Transition
As soon you have the fuel/manpower to build retreat your capping engy and start building a Rifle command and immediately train a Sniper (2 if possible).

Now, even if you've played well there is a chance that you got pushed off the field. At this point a germans might have a T2 building out. Here the Scout Car is made obsolete by the rifle nades. The HT is most likely obsolete since there is no way the german player has 120 munis to lose. So in case of any kind of infantry rush or even an increase in static units such as MG42 or Mortars your snipers will absolutely wreck any attempt at a serious push from the germans. Two shots from them is a instant retreat on any unlucky squad to eat those shots so keep these well back AND CLOSE TO YOUR CONSCRIPTS so that if - for any reason you get rushed by a Scout Car you can dispatch of it with AT-Nades. iMake sure to shoot and move whenever there are any germans anywhere close.

Mid Game
This is all about anticipating the German T3 and getting a SU85 up ASAP. Your 3 conscripts and 2 snipers should be able to keep german infantry and light vehicles off the map with ease. That means that the german player is likely to throw in a P4 or Ostwind in a desperate attempt to claw back some of the map.

In this case, AT-nades cause engine damage and SU85 picks up the trash if there is any german tank out. If you have had map control/dominance you most likely will never see T4 or even more than one tank. Just to be sure, BACK TECH to T2 for an AT-Gun and build a second SU85, you should be able to have these resources.

20 Minute mark
I don't know if this constitutes as mid or late game but at this point your unit composition should be 3x Conscript, 2x Sniper 1x Engy, 2x SU85, 1x AT-Gun.

You should also consider getting a second Engy to mine. I mean Soviets have NOTHING to spend ammo on so just go nuts lay mines EVERYWHERE, there can never be too many, we're talking probably about at least 10 mines and counting. Covering your flanks, covering important points. Any chokes, doors, holes in walls or infantry paths. 1 Soviet mine almost always takes out 2 men from any German squad and with the threat of snipers around the corner there is no way that unit is staying anywhere near.

This ideal unit composition will basically deal with any infantry or vehicle in the German army and they will be so starved for fuel and munis that any counter attack will be miserable. Make sure you keep the pressure on and keep sending an unit or two to harras VPs and take cut offs.

This doesn't in any way cover any doctrine choice. It's completely situational and most players should adapt accordingly. More light vehicles = guards. More static units = KV8. More infantry - Shocks and KV8 again. If you suspect more tanks/panthers - More AT-Guns or use sniper flares to get a few cheap shots from the monster range SU85.

Tell me how this goes for you.

is this work against a full bastard 3 MG42 ?

otherwise i like it

I mean. One volley of sniper shots = 2/4 men left on 1 of the MG42's. If he keeps it there for 4-5 more seconds its a dead MG and for the rest you can flank and molotov.

But honestly, it's too easy to keep the pressure up with this play. Will come with replays over the coming few days.

I honestly think that molotov's are not worth it early game any more, 9/10 times a good player will move before they land.

Forcing a player to move/move away from cover can still win you the fight.

Forcing a player to move/move away from cover can still win you the fight.

true

Forcing a player to move/move away from cover can still win you the fight.

True, another tactic is to throw one into a building and another at the buildings entrance, no escape.

Why do you need to back tech to get AT guns when you are coming out with SU-85s?

Another thing to do is to get guard squads with DP light machine guns to scout out and button enemy vehicles while executing them with SU-85s. It's quite popular and effective. Also makes use of those munitions you are floating.

The thing I don't like about this strategy is that you are pressured to get an SU-85. If your opponent gets out an early panzer 4, they can hurt you badly and probably will win the game. If you get out an early SU-85, the game continues without much punishment to your opponent.

I prefer to just build 3-4 Cons, then rifle command with flame truck. Then get T70's, Ram any Panzer then backtech to get a couple of Maxims and AT gun.

your build will leave you screwed if they MG'd buildings.

i think T70's are better to get before Su's as you can attack with it and you can just lure any tank, even a Tiger near to your AT gun then just ram it and it's screwed. Then get another T70.

you can't ignore the flamer halftrack... It will beat your 3 conscripts easily, and the only real counter you have for it will be be when you get T4 out... By that time you will have either been completely pushed off the map by the HT or lost too much... Try getting some guards out sometime around your first sniper...

you can't ignore the flamer halftrack... It will beat your 3 conscripts easily, and the only real counter you have for it will be be when you get T4 out... By that time you will have either been completely pushed off the map by the HT or lost too much... Try getting some guards out sometime around your first sniper...

You're talking like a halftrack, a single unit, suddenly gives you map control and automatically kills a players 3 Con squads as soon as it's on the field.

Yes having a unit which has no counter will give you map control, if played well then you shouldn't lose any squads... Ost player will have no problem getting both fuels if you don't have any form of counter except AT grenades which will just end up draining you manpower and not doing enough damage to destroy it... Your honestly going to try and stall a flamer halftrack for about 5-6 mins??

You're talking like a halftrack, a single unit, suddenly gives you map control and automatically kills a players 3 Con squads as soon as it's on the field.

It does though. FlameHT can easily roast an entire script squad by the time they throw an AT nade. Good luck throwing two more ATnades when he is supporting his flameHT with a insta-pinning MG42.

I've seen a vet 2 flameHT, take a button, then roast a Guard squad completely while being shot by two Zis guns and survive while reversing. Their survivability really is ridiculous considering the cheapness of the unit and how early you can field it.

As mentioned having Guards is the only really 'early' counter and you need them in a scout car to actually finish it off reliably. That is of course ignoring that Guards are doctrine.

What I've experienced using this tactic is actually loosing(retreating) my conscripts after the first or second german encounter(escpecially MGs). After that is Game over since they have the fuel points and most of the map. And the manpower supposed to finance the sniper now go to refill conscript squads pegging me back even more.

However I have had some success with this tactic, so the only conclusion is that the first encouter decides the outcome of the game...

What I've experienced using this tactic is actually loosing(retreating) my conscripts after the first or second german encounter(escpecially MGs). After that is Game over since they have the fuel points and most of the map. And the manpower supposed to finance the sniper now go to refill conscript squads pegging me back even more.

However I have had some success with this tactic, so the only conclusion is that the first encouter decides the outcome of the game...

The big advantage of the snipers/guards/T4 build is that the double-sniper makes it very easy to come back and push stuff (especially MGs) off fuels and cause a lot of damage without really taking much. If you have a 3 or 4 man conscript squad around the time you want to buy a sniper it's OK not to reinforce it and just send it off to cap something.

The main risky patch in the strat is if you get hit by a FHT when you have one guard squad around and you mis-micro it badly (normally by accidentally moving and cancelling a button), while the weaker point is if you get both Molotovs and AT nades consecutively and get into a bad engagement around then.