Oshneer Panzergenadiers Are Omnipotent

• Bundle Nade
  
• Their stock rifles are effective at all range While USF has to invest in teching to unlock their bar LMGs, PanzerGrens get theirs for free.
  
• Overpowered Veterancy The above issue is further escalated when they vet up. A vet 3 rifelman with 1x bar loses to a vet 3 panzergenadier.
  

They should arrive with G43s, and then have their STGs as an upgrade (90-100 Muni).

Boi

Pro analythics

See, on one hand I feel that there are way too many StGs in this game and that panzergrens with rifles and a choice between schrecks or stgs would be better for the game...

On the other hand, this thread.

They should arrive with G43s, and then have their STGs as an upgrade (90-100 Muni).

We already had an unit like that, they are called Stormtroopers and they're doctrinal Infiltration units.However, they come out with 4 Kar98ks, not G43s.‎

In terms of Panzergrenadiers, they have been here since the launch of the game! They are Elite infantry, specialize in AI when unupgraded, AT when equipped with Schrecks... They are Elite infantry, of course they can beat unupgraded Rifleman! Rifleman are mainline troops, multi-purpose when choosing upgrades, that's why they are versatile, but that doesn't mean they can fight toe-to-toe with Elite Infantry without upgrades, that would be batsh*t OP! Not to mention the fact Panzergrenadiers are more expensive (340MP to Rifleman's 280MP), come out way later so that's why they are stronger.

The problem here is more due to the USF design. Their lack of non-doc Elite infantry is what hurting them. Have to heavily rely on Rifleman, so much that losing one mid-game onward would cause that destruction of your entire army, since USF relies heavily on keeping Rifleman alive (Every faction need to preserve their units, of course, but in the case of USF, keeping Rifleman alive is the matter of winning or losing the game). This problem happens to all WFA factions, which seriously one day, need a look at. In terms of the USF, maybe make give them an Elite infantry units non-doc (Rangers seem like the most suitable candidate, in my opinion), while nerfing Rifleman accordingly.‎

See, on one hand I feel that there are way too many StGs in this game and that panzergrens with rifles and a choice between schrecks or stgs would be better for the game...

On the other hand, this thread.

Lol. The main offender of stgs is okw though.

• Bundle Nade
  
• Their stock rifles are effective at all range While USF has to invest in teching to unlock their bar LMGs, PanzerGrens get theirs for free.
  
• Overpowered Veterancy The above issue is further escalated when they vet up. A vet 3 rifelman with 1x bar loses to a vet 3 panzergenadier.
  

They should arrive with G43s, and then have their STGs as an upgrade (90-100 Muni).

My suggestion is you play Ostheer and use pgrens then make another opinion about them.

• 
  
  They should arrive with G43s, and then have their STGs as an upgrade (90-100 Muni).

then they should 280-300 MP and be available at T1...

Yeah Pgrens are so op, especially when they melt away under double bren fire or similiar things...

They are better in almost every way from vet to cost. As such they deserve a more clearly defined role or a reduction in utility.


Maybe swap bundle made to a normal nade similar to performance of RGO nade.
Adjust vet if need be relative to cost.

[Ironic] The last GCS showed how powerful PG are, OH easily won every game due to OP PGrens.
Play as OH and use PG to understand their weaknesses.

Invissed a post for trolling and another for quoting said post.

See, on one hand I feel that there are way too many StGs in this game and that panzergrens with rifles and a choice between schrecks or stgs would be better for the game.

Panzergrenadiers using Kar 98's would be too similar to Grenadiers, and MP 40's would be too similar to Assault Grenadiers. Volksgrenadiers on the other hand made heavy use of StG's and MP 40's. I suppose you could replace Sturmpioneer StG's with MP 40's, but would there really be a point to that?

Panzergrenadiers using Kar 98's would be too similar to Grenadiers, and MP 40's would be too similar to Assault Grenadiers. Volksgrenadiers on the other hand made heavy use of StG's and MP 40's. I suppose you could replace Sturmpioneer StG's with MP 40's, but would there really be a point to that?

In terms of role and performance, I would say Panzergrenadiers is a prime example of good balance. They are made to be Elite infantry mid to late game, they have ground to gain veterancy (Rather than Obers right now, where they have a very limited ground to fight for veterancy), they can fulfill 2 needed role late-game (AI or AT specialists). Penals come out too early and lose their AT firepower later on, while their AI capability can't remain its strength for long (It's still very potent, but later on, they hardly can fight back other Elite Infantry, which make Soviet having no Elite Infantry for later on). 

In terms of Sturmpioneers, if we give them MP40s and lower their cost, it would help OKW less reliance on Sturm for too many duties (CQC, repair, flank, etc.), but that may make OKW early game weaker, don't know would it get too weak, but it sure get weaker.‎

In terms of Sturmpioneers, if we give them MP40s and lower their cost, it would help OKW less reliance on Sturm for too many duties (CQC, repair, flank, etc.), but that may make OKW early game weaker, don't know would it get too weak, but it sure get weaker.‎

Well you could give them very strong MP 40's to keep their effectiveness at close range, you would just be nerfing their long range, and nobody uses them for that. So as I said, it seems pointless, unless the sole purpose of the change is because there are too many StG models in the game. At least it's not Panzer Elite, where every soldier had an StG or a Panzerschreck due to a failed faction design.

Invissed a post for trolling and another for quoting said post.

not sure if you noticed it but OP edited his post after after i had written mine.
That wasn't really trolling imo, i really think that balance part of the forum should be allowed only to member with at least +50 post on forum & +50 games in coh2.

the amount of people coming here to make a thread with ONE sentence "pzergrenadier are OP, please nerf. GG LELIC" is too damn high to make the whole balance part of the forum contructiv.

is this the post that got him banned? top kek

is this the post that got him banned? top kek

It's an alt account.