Ostheer and T1 mainline infantry

Problem:
With the current DPS levels most early fights depend on sheer numbers or securing a strategic building.

In this case Ostheer seem to be in disadvantage since is the only faction that need to built T1 before producing a mainline infantry. Making the building cost too much time and early resources and make the fist engagement unfavorable.

That part of the reason why commanders with Osstruppen and Assault grenadiers are successful since one does not waste time making T1.

On can produce a HMG-42 but that lock him a defensive play.

Suggested solutions:
1) Swap HMG42 in T0 with grenadiers
or/and
2) Make a grenadier the starting unit for Ostheer adjust stating resources.

cons in t0 vs MG in t0 is a crucial and unique feature in this game which is vital for its fun with asymmetric balance


if you had spent more time playing than posting maybe you would understand that

C'mon now you know that cons were never intended to go up against T0 MG42s. That change was entirely a result of WFA not taking into account EFA.

I don't play Ost nearly as much as I used to but I would never trade T0 MG for T0 grens.

Look at this way, you have a few options. Make 1 to even 3 T0 MG's (3 only applies to team games). That can give you the field power to force retreat or deny areas to the enemy long enough for you to get more Grens on the field.

Another option is use doctrinal frontline infantry such as assault grenadiers, Ostruppen, etc.

And on Urban maps you should be switching to Pgrens as soon as you can anyways.

Grens aren't that bad. They have a small squad and lower DPS but they are a very hardy unit and can take hits in most scenario.

Edit: If you aren't already, you can greatly improve your grens by using ambient green cover or building sandbags in key areas. A squad of grens behind sandbags vs 2 squads of cons in no cover will have your grens doing plenty of damage before needing to retreat.

I like how it is. Doctrinal commanders can fill the role of T0 mainline for a while, and T1 HMG just makes Ostheer more like OKW.

I'd say the disadvantage of T1 Grenadiers is intended.

I also think that this swap would make certain doctrinal commanders less useful and appealing; a commander that offers T0 infantry call in can open up more strategies, than said commanders' options simply becoming redundant.

cons in t0 vs MG in t0 is a crucial and unique feature in this game which is vital for its fun with asymmetric balance


if you had spent more time playing than posting maybe you would understand that

Not really. Game isn't balanced, symmetrically or asymmetrically. If every faction started with engineer, basic infantry, and possibly sniper or scout car, then it would be much easier to balance instead of the kluge of adding T0 weapon teams.

If anything, it would be other factions adjust to be at the level of Ostheer. To be honest, the massive power creeps from the Western Armies just make the game from a slow, careful-planning, heavy-strategy game to a fast, slugfest-like, throw-everything-to-VP and literally limit the in-depth strategy potential it's once had. 

The reason why MG42 was moved to T0 was due to 2 things:
- It helped open up new start-up: Assault Grens, Osttruppen (Before that, without T0 MG42, Assault Grens and Osttruppen weren't even a thing)
- Ostheer is a faction heavily relies on support weapons. Grens wasn't meant to be extremely good at combat like Rifleman or IS, they were meant to support/cover up support weapons (MG42s, Paks, mortars) while the support weapons being the damage dealer.

In all honesty, if you replace MG42 with T0 Grens, things might change even worse for Ostheer since Grens wasn't meant to fight on other mainline infantries reliably without support weapons, which could lead to unreliable Grens spam (Not effective, but doing so just encourage them to do so, which isn't good at all)‎

P/s: Has anyone consider making all Ostheer' support weapon units 5-man? It sounds much fiter than 5-man Grens (Heavy support weapon play, after all)‎

I'm not sure why 5 man squads are being mentioned. With the current patch ostheer are much better mainly imo because squads survive till the late game (plus loss of flames from penals) PG's with spacing and vet 1 RA buff with shreks are very dangerous and when paired eat allied mediums. It's early days but they appear to be posting top win rates in most modes

MG42 IS your mainline infantry as Ostheer

You want grens at t0? They are the weakest mainline infantry after cons. Noo thanks I'll keep my t0 mg42.

You want grens at t0? They are the weakest mainline infantry after cons. Noo thanks I'll keep my t0 mg42.

Then fix grens, instead of some genius idea like giving USF a T0 mortar.......

Then fix grens, instead of some genius idea like giving USF a T0 mortar.......

Mortar is nerfed, useless now. I would rather see all mainlinfe infantry get nerfed to gren levels. Infantry blobs raom the fields, they scare tanks of hard too.

Not really. Game isn't balanced, symmetrically or asymmetrically. If every faction started with engineer, basic infantry, and possibly sniper or scout car, then it would be much easier to balance instead of the kluge of adding T0 weapon teams.

Maybe it would be balanced, but it would be incredibly boring. Asymetry is one of the best things about coh2, mirror matches would make coh a terrible game.

Maybe it would be balanced, but it would be incredibly boring. Asymetry is one of the best things about coh2, mirror matches would make coh a terrible game.

It wouldn't be boring. I'm not suggesting making all of the units the same. Each game (particularly 1v1's) would start with infantry. From there, the player could choose team weapons or light vehicles (basic armored cars or half tracks). Light vehicles would give an advantage in mobility but would delay T3, so the decision would have to be a tactical one. It would certainly have more depth than four rifles into Captain every game.

there is nothing wrong with grens. stop being cheap and upgrade them with the mg42

My point is that Ostheer should have a unit that they can rush to defend an important part of the map.

In many maps one has to rush the pio to building until he can sent a hmg and then to build another pio to build the T1

My point is that Ostheer should have a unit that they can rush to defend an important part of the map.

In many maps one has to rush the pio to building until he can sent a hmg and then to build another pio to build the T1

nothing wrong with that one pio for sweeping other with flamer. besides pios got a buff now they are not so bad.

soviets do the same thing when they spam maxims.