Visions about P4 and P5

Because of these latests balances and patches, it is clear that Axis, and specially Ostheer, needed some kind of love and buffs (or nerf in Allies). For the last 2 years at least many allyfan boys tilted the other players as whinners. Its OK. Time has proved us right.

But these changes are not enough for Ost, because they continue to loose too many tank matches, speacilly against USF and UKF.

P4 and P5 need some kind of increase damage, or increase penetration, or decrease in rof.

My humble suggestions are:
P4: increase 10% damage, increase pen in 10%.
Panther: decrease 10% ROF, increase 10% damage.

The p4 and panther are probably going to get some love, although the p4 most probably won't need it after cromwell nerf.

This also won't come without axis nerfs, though. Allies are going to be quite underwhelming when all the units they rely on to compete get nerfed.

Until next iteration of GCS patch, just go stugs. They are going to win you any tank engagement at the moment.

Just kidding, but
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I'd say no to damage bonus because all tanks (almost all of them) have same 160 points of damage.

P4 just needs to be cheaper, it is fine as it is especially after the recent roflstompwell and comet nerfs. 115 fuel would be the sweet spot if you ask me, Ostheer teching is still not that fast or cheap..

As for the Panther, its needs to be like the OKW Panther or get its dps increased. Now I know some will instantly cry then it needs to be 200 fuel, but it is in the most expensive tier to get, namely Ostheer T4 already, so 175 fuel is expensive enough.

I dont see reason of buff p4 if thay nerf cromwel and comets, its again double standarts, nerf and buff same thing twice. No reason for make it.If you whanna make p4 cheper, nerf his vets.Whanna buff p4 okey, nerf stugs.
Can you write penetretions of middle tanks if you write that p4 need damage and penetretions buffs ? For waht reason ? Coz you just whant it to get revenge or what ?
Same buffs with panther, if somthing buff, somthing need nerf.
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The Ost P4 was overpriced. It should have been around 110 fuel. Both Panthers should have had a range of 60. They are main battle tanks but used more like dedicated TD's . Also, didn't they have the same KwK42 as the JP4?

I dont see reason of buff p4 if thay nerf cromwel and comets...

Because it still underperforms the Sherman. IMO, swap the prices and call it a day, Sherman should be the better tank due to faction design.

I'd say no to damage bonus because all tanks (almost all of them) have same 160 points of damage.

This is true, medium+ tanks tend to have 160 damage, or 200, or 240...it would probably make more sense to improve a tank's AoE damage multipliers if not actually increasing their full damage by some multiple of 40, compared to 176 making it slightly more likely a light vehicle will get killed by small arms in between tank shells.

Dont see these units needing buffs when we just had a patch to start bringing things into line. When allied units are being nerfed that doesnt mean timeto buff tge axis ones. Comet changes coming are pretty big.

Ostheer P4: Hp 640, armor 180*, penetration 100/110/120, reload 5.3/5.7, range 40, moving accuracy multiplier 0.5, population 12, chance to pen Cromwell/Sherman/T34 respectivly from mid range: 68.75%/68.75%/73.33%

USF Sherman: Hp 640, armor 160, penetration 100/120/140, reload 5.6/6, range 40, moving accuracy multiplier 0.75, population 12, chance to pen OKW/Ostheer p4s respectivly from mid range: 51.2%/66.66%*

UKF Cromwell: Hp 640, armor 160, penetration 105/120/135, reload 5.6/6, range 40, moving accuracy multiplier 0.75, population 12, chance to pen OKW/Ostheer p4s respectivly from mid range: 51.2%/66.66%*

T34/76: Hp 640, armor 150, penetration 80/100/120, reload 6.1, range 40, moving accuracy multiplier 0.5, population 10, chance to pen OKW/Ostheer p4s respectivly from mid range: 42.7%/55.55%*

OKW P4: Hp 640, armor 234, penetration 100/110/120, reload 5.3/5.7, range 40, moving accuracy multiplier 0.65, population 12, chance to pen Cromwell/Sherman/T34 respectivly from mid range: 68.75%/68.75%/73.33%

(*) Once the Ostheer p4 hits vet 2 and gains the armored skirts it's armor and allied pen chance match the OKW P4

Here's some stats for thought, veterancy wise the t34 needs the least EXP to hit vet 3 followed by the cromwell. Highest is OKW p4 cause vet 5 OpieOP.

The big differences here aside from veterancy is the moving multipliers and cost per unit. Moving multipliers can be negated with glide shots but you still sacrifice momentum for it. Even though these tanks are relatively matched, the cost of allied tanks being lower allows them to field them sooner which gives them a head start on vet as well as bleeding of opponets. Sherman is stronger in this department due to HE rounds.

I think the T34/76 series is a bit too cost effective and should be raised roughly 10 fuel since in the june patch of 2016 they received massive AI buffs. OKW p4 is overpiced if you just rely on RNG to save your tank from allied mediums. Especially when you factor in other meta mediums like the T34/85 which destroys any medium outside of the panther for its cost.

Lastly moving accuracy multiplier gap should be much closer. When comparing the 0.75 of the UKF tanks to the 0.5 of Ostheer combined with their fast speed, Ostheer has a difficult time defending against them. I believe if all tanks were to be within 0.1 moving accuracy multiplier of each other, say 0.55-0.65 we'd still have the importance of glide shots yet sovs and ostheer wouldn't be throwing dice whether or not they're going to hit on the move while UKF is realistically going to hit every time.

With the UKF and USF accuracy multipliers where they are, when playing those factions you have to worry about glide shooting significantly less and thus require less micro and skill. You could argue that this is offset by the Axis having generally the stronger armor pieces which inturn requires less micro.

Just kidding, but
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I'd say no to damage bonus because all tanks (almost all of them) have same 160 points of damage.

That. P4 could be cheaper, however it's still definitely comparable to a Sherman, gets skirts with vet and the best pintle mg, and doesn't have to switch ammo, and gets arguably better (doctrinal) smoke ability. Panther IMO should just be a clone of okw panther for the same price (compensation for inaccessibility and lack of vet4 and 5)

The P4 just needs some kind of moving accuracy buff I think, otherwise I don't see much issue with it. I don't think the Sherman should be a "better" tank per say, but it should have more utility than a P4 (which it currently does, and you pay for that with more micro required).

The Panther as others say should be a stat clone for OKW but obviously keep the popcap and cost inline with the factions needs.

Also the Ostwind for Both OKW and Ostheer seems to have impossible to obtain vet.

The real issue with the Ostheer tanks is at the heavy end of things. The Tiger is just laughable and the Elephant seems to totally fail compared to the Jagdtiger despite being a similar roll tank.

The P4 just needs some kind of moving accuracy buff I think, otherwise I don't see much issue with it. I don't think the Sherman should be a "better" tank per say, but it should have more utility than a P4 (which it currently does, and you pay for that with more micro required).

The Panther as others say should be a stat clone for OKW but obviously keep the popcap and cost inline with the factions needs.

Also the Ostwind for Both OKW and Ostheer seems to have impossible to obtain vet.

The real issue with the Ostheer tanks is at the heavy end of things. The Tiger is just laughable and the Elephant seems to totally fail compared to the Jagdtiger despite being a similar roll tank.

Yeah I agree with this too. I once saw a vet4 okw ostwind though. It seems like ost is generally okw's disabled little brother in every department but team weapons and cache building for some reason.

The Tiger is just laughable and the Elephant seems to totally fail compared to the Jagdtiger despite being a similar roll tank.

I agreed with the Tiger case (It needs its armour increase, probably better than vet 1 Panther but weaker than vet 2 Panther, say like 340?), but the Elefant being failed at its roll... No, I would say. Its acceleration/deceleration/speed is better than the Jadgtiger, lower penetration doesn't really matter cause what Allies tanks can withstand a 400 penetration (Jagdtiger's penetration is at 525, but doesn't really matter since most Allies tanks' armours are <400 anyways), it has TWP, which is way better than Jagdtiger's useless barrage ability‎, same damage at 320,... seriously, I would pick the Elefant over the Jagdtiger anytime of the day. It just feels better, slightly faster at reposition itself, in 2 of the best 2v2 doctrines for Wehrmacht (Jaeger Armour and Fortified Armour)... yeah, why would I go for Jadgtiger that required an engine upgare to move slightly better and doesn't have TWP anyways?

Also, do you know that the Elefant has the highest armour value (400) out of all Wehrmacht heavy tanks ingame? ‎

Elefants are awesome. Their flaw is being attached to the Ostheer faction.

Covering Elefants can be rough without OKW units for support.

Yeah I agree with this too. I once saw a vet4 okw ostwind though. It seems like ost is generally okw's disabled little brother in every department but team weapons and cache building for some reason.

Well, OKW didn't always have a stock P4. That's a huge part of the equation there.

OKW is the unfortunate result of multiple redesigns, none of which did anything to fix their underlying flaws. (T0 AT, only 3 tiers makes teching clumsy.)

Stuff
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The issue with the Elefant compared to the Jagd is range I think. I don't know the exact numbers but I am certain it is much lower. Some times it doesn't Pen but expecting 100% pen rate is nuts anyway.

Because of these latests balances and patches, it is clear that Axis, and specially Ostheer, needed some kind of love and buffs (or nerf in Allies). For the last 2 years at least many allyfan boys tilted the other players as whinners. Its OK. Time has proved us right.

But these changes are not enough for Ost, because they continue to loose too many tank matches, speacilly against USF and UKF.

P4 and P5 need some kind of increase damage, or increase penetration, or decrease in rof.

My humble suggestions are:
P4: increase 10% damage, increase pen in 10%.
Panther: decrease 10% ROF, increase 10% damage.

I would disagree buffs are required for Ostheer following recent patch. Objective overview of wins (http://coh2chart.com/) shows things are reasonably balanced. Ostheer actually with most wins per faction this week in all ranks. What more do you want?

Please see below link for confirmation of above. Cheers

http://coh2chart.com/

The issue with the Elefant compared to the Jagd is range I think. I don't know the exact numbers but I am certain it is much lower. Some times it doesn't Pen but expecting 100% pen rate is nuts anyway.

JT 85 range to the elephant 70. Elephant has 100% pen against every allied tank except the IS2 which has 375 armor and the elephants pen is 360/400/440. So at max range the IS2 has 4% chance to bounce a shot.

I would disagree buffs are required for Ostheer following recent patch. Objective overview of wins (http://coh2chart.com/) shows things are reasonably balanced. Ostheer actually with most wins per faction this week in all ranks. What more do you want?

Please see below link for confirmation of above. Cheers

http://coh2chart.com/

I wouldn't rely on http://coh2chart.com yet because players are still adapting to the meta and people who are less informed are still trying to figure out the best cheese to abuse to boost their ranks.

The issue with the Elefant compared to the Jagd is range I think. I don't know the exact numbers but I am certain it is much lower. Some times it doesn't Pen but expecting 100% pen rate is nuts anyway.

Elefant has the range of 70, while Jadgtiger has the range of 85. To be honest, there aren't any tanks of the Allies can outrange these 2 beasts anyway so range never has been a real factor to compare these two, in my opinion. Yeah, I mean the Jadgtiger can snipe for an extra 15 range further, but can you even get that extra 15 vision most of the time anyways... In addition, It should always pen, if it doesn't then it's just some really bad RNG (I mean, for a slow-ass reload and extreme high penetration that doesn't pen it just butt-frustrated). Missed shots between the two should be the same since they have the same accuracy and same 0.5 moving accuracy modified anyways.  I would still pick Elefant over Jagdtiger, the TWP and the commanders it's in just make Ele way better, in my opinion.

Besides, if you really want range, you can just hull down the Ele for extra 25% range (From 70 to 87.5) but it is never needed.

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