Panthers need adjustment

dude you have to be a fucking idiot to not understand why a stug doesn't kill inf and why a t34 does. storm elite go play some other game.

dude you have to be a fucking idiot to not understand why a stug doesn't kill inf and why a t34 does. storm elite go play some other game.

Nitpicking at its finest.

dude you have to be a fucking idiot to not understand why a stug doesn't kill inf and why a t34 does. storm elite go play some other game.

Woah, calm down. Dont need to insult. He just said that the MG of the Stug doesnt damage inf.

dude you have to be a fucking idiot to not understand why a stug doesn't kill inf and why a t34 does. storm elite go play some other game.

Because a Panzer IV is good against infantry? Oh, wait. Not a single Axis tank except the Tiger does anything to infantry, at all, ever.

Allies play Easy Mode. Armored vehicles early game that can drive around the entire map and allow the Allied player to take the whole map for several minutes. Universal tanks that require no thought or strategy whatsoever due to all having turrets and all being equally viable against infantry and armor. Enough munitions to both upgrade infantry AND lay mines AND build entrenchments (they don't even cost munitions, do they?), etc. etc. etc.

Axis has the worst of absolutely everything, and the Panther doesn't even matter when Axis infantry units STILL bunch up and get instawiped ALL THE TIME. Good luck sending in a Panther when you have one infantry unit left.

Because a Panzer IV is good against infantry? Oh, wait. Not a single Axis tank except the Tiger does anything to infantry, at all, ever.

Allies play Easy Mode. Armored vehicles early game that can drive around the entire map and allow the Allied player to take the whole map for several minutes. Universal tanks that require no thought or strategy whatsoever due to all having turrets and all being equally viable against infantry and armor. Enough munitions to both upgrade infantry AND lay mines AND build entrenchments (they don't even cost munitions, do they?), etc. etc. etc.

Axis has the worst of absolutely everything, and the Panther doesn't even matter when Axis infantry units STILL bunch up and get instawiped ALL THE TIME. Good luck sending in a Panther when you have one infantry unit left.

Lol p4 bad against infantry. Lol tiger being good at anything.

The kubelwagen is a thing. Jackson is very good against infantry and I really love the aesthetics of the su85s turret. Axis entrenchment cost a ton of munitions, they really need to tone that down. Usf also lays way too many mines all the time.

Axis squad spacing is clearly inferior to allies.

Kappa, just in case.

4 T43's killing 2 Panthers is NOT the norm. It is an exceptional edge case that should only go to show the potential boundaries of the balance scenario, not stand as a baseline for comparison.

In other words, don't use the exception to try and prove the rule.

Not an exception, in big games with competent soviet players it fairly common.

Not an exception, in big games with competent soviet players it fairly common.

If it are Ostheer Panthers, it is completely plausible since their low rate of fire and horrible accuracy is indeed something that isn't to be feared by any competent Allied player.

A little humor. But it's to cry what awaits Wher.

A little humor. But it's to cry what awaits Wher.

Lol. They make the weakest faction weaker by nerfing its "crutch" unit and expect a useless unit to suddenly become viable.

By that logic I could make Conscripts useful by nerfing Penals.

Lol. They make the weakest faction weaker by nerfing its "crutch" unit and expect a useless unit to suddenly become viable.

By that logic I could make Conscripts useful by nerfing Penals.

It's the logic that follows Brits since their release. Churchill too stronk? Nerf it! People use Comet now? Nerf it! Cromwell too popular? Nerf it! Firefly and Crocodile still useable? Nerf it! Arty cover OP? Nerf it! Still OP? Nerf it!

Well...i dont think anybody could even begin to argue that arty cover was even halfway a balanced idea....

It's the logic that follows Brits since their release. Churchill too stronk? Nerf it! People use Comet now? Nerf it! Cromwell too popular? Nerf it! Firefly and Crocodile still useable? Nerf it! Arty cover OP? Nerf it! Still OP? Nerf it!

...that's how balancing works. Sure, competent devs wouldn't allow everything to be broken to start with, but better late than never.

Of course, there's STILL the whole issue of nerfing things based on how they perform against the original two factions in the game, Ostheer & Soviets, which simply don't belong in the same game as the USF and OKW. Then the Brits came along, and the devs tried to somehow make sure that they neither blatantly overpower the Eastern Front factions nor blatantly lose to Western Front factions.

CoH2 is a mismanaged mess of a game.

I was gonna say, all those Brit nerfs were very well deserved (and I quite want to like the Brits) but you're right, Brits have received like 3 buffs in their whole history and two of them were bugfixes to treadbreaker/Smoke Shells.

Meanwhile, FBP Ost is pretty miserable against heavy tanks because all 3 Allied ones come with/are ways of zoning out Ostheer's Paks, so they're being forced into Tiger every single game.

...that's how balancing works. Sure, competent devs wouldn't allow everything to be broken to start with, but better late than never.

Of course, there's STILL the whole issue of nerfing things based on how they perform against the original two factions in the game, Ostheer & Soviets, which simply don't belong in the same game as the USF and OKW. Then the Brits came along, and the devs tried to somehow make sure that they neither blatantly overpower the Eastern Front factions nor blatantly lose to Western Front factions.

CoH2 is a mismanaged mess of a game.

That is exactly what I think of this game.

It's the logic that follows Brits since their release. Churchill too stronk? Nerf it! People use Comet now? Nerf it! Cromwell too popular? Nerf it! Firefly and Crocodile still useable? Nerf it! Arty cover OP? Nerf it! Still OP? Nerf it!

Wow do you reallythink these nerfs were undeserved? Holy **** this is pure fanboyism.

Wow do you reallythink these nerfs were undeserved? Holy **** this is pure fanboyism.

HEY! I DESERVE that non doc no cap mini tiger that can burn out weapon crews further than they can shoot, i teched up! Im honestly just suprised it didnt deal 240 damage on release too because...well brits ..

The probelm could be solved in two manners:

1) Ostheer Panther gets OKW Panther stats (better accuracy on the move, slightly faster reload, better MGs).

or

2) A total redesign of the Panther.

The latter might be even more adequate. Since the Panther is flawed by design anyways. It's supposed to dive in on the enemy, usually going into the enemies territory. It has to close in versus tank destroyers because of the lower range and it has to chase medium tanks because of its low rate of fire. Only if you follow the mediums for a while you can hope to score a kill.

However at the same time it is meant to keep the frontal armor at the enemy or it dies as fast as any medium tank. But as pointed out above you are supposed to extend and expose your rear armor to have an impact.

This means the Panther can't be used efficiently. It either risks being killed off immediately or just deliver one or two shots. "Effective" Panther play atm means that you deliver some shots only damaging a vehicle to then run away and repeat until you have vet. This is highly unsatisfying for an end of tech unit.

I agree with the sentiments that they should just get a copypasta of the OKW Panther. OKW Panther definitely feels like a "premier medium tank", and it's AI performance as people have stated is good enough. You don't expect to annihilate handheld AT blobs in seconds like a Brummbar, but at the same time, you won't be bullied away by a lone zook squad either.

However it's true that t4 accesibility and StuG overshadowing it currently are both issues that won't be solved simply by giving Ost the OKW Panther.

I agree with the sentiments that they should just get a copypasta of the OKW Panther. OKW Panther definitely feels like a "premier medium tank"

Can't say I agree. The only reason I even bother with an OKW Panther is when I happen to have the resources, and can't bring out anything better.

Panthers in general are WOEFULLY inadequate.

Combine this with the fact that Allied tanks get a TON of active offensive abilities, while Axis tanks get nothing but Blitz, and Panthers are just ridiculously weak and impotent by comparison to the Allied armor arsenal, especially late game.

Lul, "nothing but blitz". Man, what I would give to get blitz on a t34...