Unfair garrisons on cut-offs or important resource points

Removed along with deep snow, and still noone plays winter maps

Deep snow is not removed.
Try semois winter or rzhev winter, there are still "leftover" deep snow that slows you down around certain houses.

I just don't fucking understand how they can fuck that up.

I wouldn't be sad if all garrisons suddenly disappeared. However, if a cutoff garrison does exist, it should be on the defending side of the point (so defenders can cap the cutoff and retreat to the garrison if attackers show up, but if an attacking squad is capping the point, a defending squad can get into the garrison before the attacking sqaud sees them. Ideally, the defender's side of the garrison would be a blind spot as well. The same should hold true for important resource points that are clearly on one side or the other (as opposed to the points that are roughly on the centerline).

So you want cut-offs to be impossible to take for the attacker? Why having cut-offs at all then?

Couldn't we just weakon garrisons? I mean sure, garrisons have a cool factor and making them weaker than green cover will probably lead to people avoiding them, but I never understood why garrisons are so much stronger than green cover.

They are already (very slightly) weaker than green cover in terms of rec. accuracy or damage reduction, can't remember which.

What I would love to see is a slight nerf of garrisons so they end up between heavy and light cover in terms of received accuracy/damage (still closer to green, though). That way, the number of windows and therefore the direction of attack would matter more. Garrisons would still provide unique benefits and disadvantages compared to green cover:
+ no negation at close range;
+ 360 degree protection;
+ entities teleporting between windows to immediately (re)target enemies;

- limited number of windows;
- instawipe potential from flames/collapse;
- lower damage/rec. accuracy.

It would really open up infantry combat on some maps and make the braindead rush to the house less... braindead. The main issue is that it doesn't really make sense for a stone house to provide less protection than a short wall, but oh well.

My thoughts on this.

Buildings can make or break a map, but in order to have different play styles be available they need to be present. The issue with buildings mainly comes from stone and up, as they have 2 - 4 times the health of a wooden variant.

The issue of windows and such, well that can only really be resolved by using "confusing" sight blockers near the windows, what I mean by this is Hedgerows mainly. Other than that we (the mappers) are limited by model choice as there is only a preset selection. We also have to account for people that can't / simply refuse to move their cameras in game. This is due to some buildings having no windows on certain sides (2 story wooden house near south base on crossroads). What I am trying to get at is there is really no middle ground, unless you pre damage the buildings to get the garrison strength percentage in line with other buildings that are supposed to be the mimic of it.

Just to give you an idea of why it is a pain:

The buildings are measured in 3 dimensions 1x1x1 is the smallest you can get (also just to mention almost all buildings from vcoh are only in 2 dimensions in measurement), and sadly the scheme is completely arbitrary in the worldbuilder.

In the below screen shot, all buildings are the same "size" but have completely different garrison strengths.




If we were to make the church the same strength as the middle wooden building, we would need to drop the church to a 32/111 garrison strength, which would fix it seemingly simply right? Wrong.

See if the building strength goes below 50%, it becomes ungarrisionable and is now just a pre-destroyed building, making it not possible to balance certain models in a map, this is further punished by using only one group in a map to reduce lag (there are currently 5).



So for some maps, having destroyed buildings everywhere (thematically) makes zero sense, however, is the only real solution for fixing the garrison problems, or more accurately improve the issue. This would allow some factions to use garrisons, but at the same time a player could also more easily be punished for over staying their welcome. OFC some factions would still struggle, but it wouldn't be insane like it is currently.

Hopefully in the future a project will actually come to fruition and some issues with maps can be addressed, until then I hope this sheds a little light on the issue.

My thoughts on this.

Buildings can make or break a map, but in order to have different play styles be available they need to be present. The issue with buildings mainly comes from stone and up, as they have 2 - 4 times the health of a wooden variant.

The issue of windows and such, well that can only really be resolved by using "confusing" sight blockers near the windows, what I mean by this is Hedgerows mainly. Other than that we (the mappers) are limited by model choice as there is only a preset selection. We also have to account for people that can't / simply refuse to move their cameras in game. This is due to some buildings having no windows on certain sides (2 story wooden house near south base on crossroads). What I am trying to get at is there is really no middle ground, unless you pre damage the buildings to get the garrison strength percentage in line with other buildings that are supposed to be the mimic of it.

Just to give you an idea of why it is a pain:

The buildings are measured in 3 dimensions 1x1x1 is the smallest you can get (also just to mention almost all buildings from vcoh are only in 2 dimensions in measurement), and sadly the scheme is completely arbitrary in the worldbuilder.

In the below screen shot, all buildings are the same "size" but have completely different garrison strengths.




If we were to make the church the same strength as the middle wooden building, we would need to drop the church to a 32/111 garrison strength, which would fix it seemingly simply right? Wrong.

See if the building strength goes below 50%, it becomes ungarrisionable and is now just a pre-destroyed building, making it not possible to balance certain models in a map, this is further punished by using only one group in a map to reduce lag (there are currently 5).



So for some maps, having destroyed buildings everywhere (thematically) makes zero sense, however, is the only real solution for fixing the garrison problems, or more accurately improve the issue. This would allow some factions to use garrisons, but at the same time a player could also more easily be punished for over staying their welcome. OFC some factions would still struggle, but it wouldn't be insane like it is currently.

Hopefully in the future a project will actually come to fruition and some issues with maps can be addressed, until then I hope this sheds a little light on the issue.

Thank you for this information, it sounds troubling.

Wouldn't it just be an option to not put garrisons directly next to a base entrance or cut-off or muni/fuel point. Can most maps be reworked like that?

Thank you for this information, it sounds troubling.

Wouldn't it just be an option to not put garrisons directly next to a base entrance or cut-off or muni/fuel point. Can most maps be reworked like that?

Hopefully something along those lines can be done. I'm sure we find a way. Just will take time to get the ball rolling.