Problem:
Balancing units that can pick weapons is very complicated because they buff some unit substantial and other not enough.
For instance the USF Lmg or the Bar in that hand of RE performs better than the riflemen because they get a massive buff at vet 1 with 1.2X accuracy.
Solution:
separate infantries to 3 categories Low quality (LQ)(RE, R.En.,Pio, C.E.), Mainline(ML) (Con, Penal, Gren, VG, riflemen), Elite (EL)(PG, Paras, Obers, Commandos).
Buff spwan weapon of LQ with X1.15 accuracy, 1.20 Reload and give the the reverse penalty X0.87 accuracy 0.83 Reload.
Keep ML as is.
Nerf spawn weapons of EL with X0.87 accuracy 0.83 Realod and give them a reverse bonuses.
Balance all dropable weapons with ML.
Now these weapons work according to squad that uses them. The number I give are more for an example and can be modified according to each squad.
Balancing dropable weapons
4 Apr 2017, 20:29 PM
#1
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
4 Apr 2017, 22:21 PM
#2
1 
Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4
wat. You want to make the weapons better on the cheap spammable infantry? You want RE spam again?
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5 Apr 2017, 03:36 AM
#3
Posts: 1158
This example doesn't seem possible with the way the game operates. It's very difficult to understand what you wrote, as well. Also, I'm pretty sure the benefit that RE get at vet1 is not better than the vet2 of riflemen.
29 Jul 2014, 12:16 PM by siuking666:
T34/76 is NOT a joke on my hands; Maybe on your hands you make it suck shit? but on me, No. I can kill a stug with a little micro, go toe to toe with a Panzer 4. Is it a joke? LOL T34/85 is apparently a very good tank. But no one says it "one hit wipe" or elefant penetration; up to a point i think this little medium tank just have too much health and too much firepower with that fuel cost.
5 Apr 2017, 04:07 AM
#4
Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1
BARs and LMG are kinda wasted in RETs, they have very poor accuracy even with their VET1 bonus vs Veteran troops, is why people give them Bazookas.
5 Apr 2017, 06:11 AM
#5
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
wat. You want to make the weapons better on the cheap spammable infantry? You want RE spam again?
The exact opposite since LQ units will have penalty on their weapon any weapon they pick up will perform worse on the.
On the other hand any weapon Elite infantry get it will work better on them.
For instance now if I find a PTRS on the ground should I pick it up with PG? Is it Guard's PTRS or Penal PTRS?
OR Since now one can buy back the Guard's weapons one can deliberately use them to drop their weapon and equip them to conscripts
5 Apr 2017, 06:15 AM
#6
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
BARs and LMG are kinda wasted in RETs, they have very poor accuracy even with their VET1 bonus vs Veteran troops, is why people give them Bazookas.
The accuracy of their M1 is irrelevant. If one has 1 RE and 1 riflemen and 1 LMG the total DPS of 2 squad will be more if the LMG is the Hands of the RE and i will be even more once the 2 units vet up (thing change only once riflemen hit vet 3).
5 Apr 2017, 16:15 PM
#7
Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1
The accuracy of their M1 is irrelevant. If one has 1 RE and 1 riflemen and 1 LMG the total DPS of 2 squad will be more if the LMG is the Hands of the RE and i will be even more once the 2 units vet up (thing change only once riflemen hit vet 3).
REs nerfs they received don't encourage using them as liberally anymore, they have low upkeep but their reinforcement cost is about the same as Riflemen, which perform better at AI duty.
Not to mention who is gonna go LMGs anymore now that you can't double up?
BARs all the way!
5 Apr 2017, 16:23 PM
#8
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
The issue is more complicated than RE.
For instance:
Lmg34 or shreck dropped become allot mote stronger on the hands of cheaper units.
Weapon from the UKF M5 are very hard to balance in the hand of every unit that can pick them up.
Weapons in the hands Of Ostrruppen are more powerful.
For instance:
Lmg34 or shreck dropped become allot mote stronger on the hands of cheaper units.
Weapon from the UKF M5 are very hard to balance in the hand of every unit that can pick them up.
Weapons in the hands Of Ostrruppen are more powerful.
5 Apr 2017, 17:00 PM
#9
Posts: 1158
The issue is more complicated than RE.
For instance:
Lmg34 or shreck dropped become allot mote stronger on the hands of cheaper units.
Please provide some numerical proof of this, it sounds like a lie.
29 Jul 2014, 12:16 PM by siuking666:
T34/76 is NOT a joke on my hands; Maybe on your hands you make it suck shit? but on me, No. I can kill a stug with a little micro, go toe to toe with a Panzer 4. Is it a joke? LOL T34/85 is apparently a very good tank. But no one says it "one hit wipe" or elefant penetration; up to a point i think this little medium tank just have too much health and too much firepower with that fuel cost.
5 Apr 2017, 17:21 PM
#10
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Please provide some numerical proof of this, it sounds like a lie.
Focus on the changes suggested and reason behind it and not an examples given to explain it.
(but since you ask an LMG34 in the hands of pathfinders get more range (with vet) something the weapon not designed for, or in hands of 6 men squad cheap squads the weapon makes the squad too powerful)
as another example FJ gain very little by picking up a BAR.
5 Apr 2017, 17:50 PM
#11
1 Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4
Please provide some numerical proof of this, it sounds like a lie.
He's not explaining it very well, but you want to look at the difference in dps gained. The difference in dps between an RE m1 carbine and an lmg34 is much greater than that between a rifleman m1 garand and the lmg34. You "waste" dps by putting it on a riflesquad.
The mg still does the same damage on both squads, but you gain more from putting it on the RE. Ignoring factors like veterancy and received accuracy, which complicates things a bit.
Tobis "Complete Throw"
Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
5 Apr 2017, 17:56 PM
#12
Posts: 1273
I read your opening post a few times, i allowed it to sink in, I read it again but I still fail to comprehend what exactly you are trying to achieve. Do you mind rephrasing your whole idea? That'd be awesome. 
6 Apr 2017, 00:51 AM
#13
Posts: 1954
I read your opening post a few times, i allowed it to sink in, I read it again but I still fail to comprehend what exactly you are trying to achieve. Do you mind rephrasing your whole idea? That'd be awesome.
He thinks the Vet 1 bonus of RE's is MASSIVE (gamebreaking) when they pick up a bazooka:
Rear Echelon Troops
vet 1 +20% accuracy
He wants them nerfed BEFORE they pick it up:
vet 0 -13% accuracy
By the way,
Volksgrenadiers
-10% received accuracy
+30% accuracy, -20% weapon cooldown
Passive Healing, -10% received accuracy
+20% sight range, +15% accuracy
-20% cooldown, -30% reload
Their bonus is +45%, however, it is balanced because allies 120% >> axis 145%
This should definitely be added to the next patch, assuming that it is in scope.
6 Apr 2017, 03:38 AM
#14
Posts: 1158
This is such a confusing thread. Is the complaint about veterency bonuses or the actual weapon? The weapon does not get stronger when picked up by inferior squads. Relic did implement something to make some weapons WEAKER when picked up by inferior squads, but not STRONGER. With Veterency, dropped weapons get stronger in the hands of Axis, they get way more accuracy bonus. The pathfinders do have a unique bonus, but they aren't that common on the battlefield at vet3.
29 Jul 2014, 12:16 PM by siuking666:
T34/76 is NOT a joke on my hands; Maybe on your hands you make it suck shit? but on me, No. I can kill a stug with a little micro, go toe to toe with a Panzer 4. Is it a joke? LOL T34/85 is apparently a very good tank. But no one says it "one hit wipe" or elefant penetration; up to a point i think this little medium tank just have too much health and too much firepower with that fuel cost.
6 Apr 2017, 04:11 AM
#15
Posts: 1954
This is such a confusing thread. Is the complaint about veterency bonuses or the actual weapon? The weapon does not get stronger when picked up by inferior squads. Relic did implement something to make some weapons WEAKER when picked up by inferior squads, but not STRONGER. With Veterency, dropped weapons get stronger in the hands of Axis, they get way more accuracy bonus. The pathfinders do have a unique bonus, but they aren't that common on the battlefield at vet3.
The complaint is about RE's and their vet bonus.
6 Apr 2017, 07:59 AM
#16
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Lets try to explain this once more:
Each squad is balanced in cost/pop/reinforcement cost/reinforcement time/veterancy bonuses/HP/DPS.
A UKF M5 can give access to LMG and AT to any squad or Guard squad or PG sguad with G43/shreck can be used to drop weapon so that other units can pick them up.
The weapon picked up replaces the original weapon of the squad that pick them and increase or some times even decrease the DPS by the ratio:
new DPS/old DPS. That ratio is bigger the lower quality the original weapon. Imo that makes weapon in cheap squad to overperfom.
Imo the weapon that are picked should work closer to level of unit that pick them up. I am suggesting the way that this can be achieved.
In other words player should not have to wonder I found this weapon on the ground should I picked it up? What unit should I pick it up with?
So no this is not an issue about R.E. but of all units.
Each squad is balanced in cost/pop/reinforcement cost/reinforcement time/veterancy bonuses/HP/DPS.
A UKF M5 can give access to LMG and AT to any squad or Guard squad or PG sguad with G43/shreck can be used to drop weapon so that other units can pick them up.
The weapon picked up replaces the original weapon of the squad that pick them and increase or some times even decrease the DPS by the ratio:
new DPS/old DPS. That ratio is bigger the lower quality the original weapon. Imo that makes weapon in cheap squad to overperfom.
Imo the weapon that are picked should work closer to level of unit that pick them up. I am suggesting the way that this can be achieved.
In other words player should not have to wonder I found this weapon on the ground should I picked it up? What unit should I pick it up with?
So no this is not an issue about R.E. but of all units.
6 Apr 2017, 19:41 PM
#17
Posts: 1158
That's a better explanation. I think it's going to be kind of hard to do this. It would likely have to be done unit by unit, instead of using a formula. That's one of the drawbacks of having accuracy associated with the actual weapon, instead of the wielder. This kind of change makes more sense in relation to how things are in the real world. You can give the same gun to two different people and one person might be shit with it and the other have amazing accuracy. In CoH, anyone picks up an lmg34 and they are instantly terminator.
29 Jul 2014, 12:16 PM by siuking666:
T34/76 is NOT a joke on my hands; Maybe on your hands you make it suck shit? but on me, No. I can kill a stug with a little micro, go toe to toe with a Panzer 4. Is it a joke? LOL T34/85 is apparently a very good tank. But no one says it "one hit wipe" or elefant penetration; up to a point i think this little medium tank just have too much health and too much firepower with that fuel cost.
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