Mechanized Assault Doctrine and Panzergrenadier imba

Hello,


I feel that this doctrine is extreme strong and requires ZERO skill.
Spam of panzergrenadier's covered heavy MG make USF infanitry useless, tanks (also Shermans) too weak VS Panzer4 covered by panzergrenadier spam with shreks, cheap assault grenadiers and cheap Tiger (not cheap, but too easy reachable in late game) with massive area damage and garrison damage make USF useless 1 vs 1, becouse Wermacht player can keep only few (in my happening, 3) points (not fuel and munition!!!) and win 1 vs 1 game easy.


UPD. solve some mistakes, added replay of this game - https://www.coh2.org/replay/60209/imba-ostheer-with-mechanized-assault-doctrine

Ostheer and Soviet infantry are effectively from a different game than USF and OKW infantry.

If you're having trouble against the slightly buffed Ostheer infantry and untouched Ostheer tanks as USF, perhaps it's time to learn to play USF properly, rather than just throwing blobs of invincible Riflemen at the enemy out in the open.

USF can still easily win a match in the early game by literally keeping an Ostheer player locked in base due to the Western Front infantry being superhuman, with twice the durability and DPS of the original factions' infantry, so complaints about Ostheer tanks are ridiculous.

in the time you created this thread, you coul ve easily watched 1 or 2 replays wich would pbably solve all your probles at once

Ostheer and Soviet infantry are effectively from a different game than USF and OKW infantry.

If you're having trouble against the slightly buffed Ostheer infantry and untouched Ostheer tanks as USF, perhaps it's time to learn to play USF properly, rather than just throwing blobs of invincible Riflemen at the enemy out in the open.

USF can still easily win a match in the early game by literally keeping an Ostheer player locked in base due to the Western Front infantry being superhuman, with twice the durability and DPS of the original factions' infantry, so complaints about Ostheer tanks are ridiculous.

Only way to counter enemy blob is your more powerfull blob or arty strikes,in other happens i not blobing

Man,assault grenadiers need to be at point blank to be powerful.If he has pz gren spam,use mg+sherman.Why you don't keep rifleman at least at medium range when ass grens are aproaching you?i have played with ass grens and i don't find them the best in every situation.If he has 3 ass gren squad,and 2 pz grens,you need to have at least 3 rifles+lieutenant+captain or 4 rifles+lieutenant/captain.I mean he has 5 infantry squads in total,why you don't do the same???is a must to react to a blobber with a blob or mg,mortars

Only way to counter enemy blob is your more powerfull blob or arty strikes,in other happens i not blobing

...Ostheer literally can't blob. Ostheer has FOUR-MAN SQUADS. One model down = the squad has to retreat.

And USF consistently outnumbers Ostheer forces on the field because of... I'm really not sure why, but hundreds upon hundreds of games both played and watched have shown me that USF always have resources for anything the USF player wants.

My guess is that this is due to USF infantry being indestructible, losing practically no models ever, and that's not even mentioning access to caches for some reason (though the biggest symptom seems to be just how much manpower USF players have at their disposal throughout every match, not just the fuel/ammo).

Spam of panzergrenadier's covered my heavy MG make USF infanitry useless,

What do you consider "spam"? Because a unit that costs as much as PzGrens is about as useful to spam as dropping resources into the enemy's base - in other words, it doesn't happen. On top of that, these units are only effective at relatively close ranges, so if they manage to get your MGs, you must have done something terribly wrong (probably got outmanoeuvred).

tanks (also Shermans) too weak VS Panzer4 covered by panzergrenadier spam with shreks

The Sherman is significantly cheaper than the Panzer IV, and performs on the same level, if not slightly above. It requires a tiny bit more micro, to switch between HE and AP shells, but using either in their respective category allows the Sherman to easily outmatch any vehicle of its class except the Cromwell. On top of that, your Sherman suffers significantly less movement penalties than the Panzer IV, so use that to stay mobile.

If the combination of Panzer IV and PzGrens gives you trouble, do the same thing: Use combined arms! Set your Sherman to HE shells and cover it with an AT gun, or set it to AP shells and cover it with your Riflemen or an MG. There are so many options available, unless you do nothing but right clicking your units into the enemy.

Hello,


cheap sturmgrenadiers and cheap Tiger (not cheap, but too easy reachable in late game) with massive area damage and garrison damage make USF useless 1 vs 1, becouse Wermacht player can keep only few (in my happening, 3) points (not fuel and munition!!!) and win 1 vs 1 game easy.

Do you mean Assault Grens? There are no Sturm Grens in the game, so I'm assuming you mean Assault Grens. They are a massively overpriced unit for their performance. They don't deal any damage unless sitting on top of the enemy, and their larger squad size is offset by their weak defensive bonuses and their need to constantly move across open ground to be effective. If Assault Grens give you trouble, you are clearly lacking any ability to micro your unit. And no, I don't mean to insult you or be mean, but calling Assault Grens problematic is bollocks.

Regarding the Tiger, it is less easy to reach than the Pershing. Your Jacksons outrange it, so use your infantry to spot for them. Don't push too deep with them, they are vulnerable to enemy tanks - they are a surgical tool, not a sword.
The Pershing again is a valid option against the Tiger, although you should keep the lower health pool in mind (the Pershing is like a Panther with better Tiger stats - it is not meant to take the same beating as the Tiger, but it sure as hell dishes out a lot more hurt). Again, all your USF tanks have severely reduced movement penalties, so keep them moving.

Western Front infantry being superhuman, with twice the durability and DPS of the original factions' infantry

There is nothing in the stats to support this. On a man-to-man basis, an Ostheer Grenadier had slightly higher durability and DPS than an American Rifleman.

There is nothing in the stats to support this. On a man-to-man basis, an Ostheer Grenadier had slightly higher durability and DPS than an American Rifleman.

Really?even with received accuracy ?

There is nothing in the stats to support this. On a man-to-man basis, an Ostheer Grenadier had slightly higher durability and DPS than an American Rifleman.

On the other hand Riflemen are 5 men and Grenadiers 4 so they are not fighting man-to-man...
(although the post this responded to was exaggerating)

Grens squad health is the lowest actually which means less damage needs to be done until you can retreat them

I don't know what happen in this game
if you want any advice save replay and post it
sometime Learn to Play it good answer

What do you consider "spam"? Because a unit that costs as much as PzGrens is about as useful to spam as dropping resources into the enemy's base - in other words, it doesn't happen. On top of that, these units are only effective at relatively close ranges, so if they manage to get your MGs, you must have done something terribly wrong (probably got outmanoeuvred).

I mean panzergrens covered BY (not my) heavy MGs are too strong, it's a mistake.

Regarding the Tiger, it is less easy to reach than the Pershing. Your Jacksons outrange it, so use your infantry to spot for them. Don't push too deep with them, they are vulnerable to enemy tanks - they are a surgical tool, not a sword.
The Pershing again is a valid option against the Tiger, although you should keep the lower health pool in mind (the Pershing is like a Panther with better Tiger stats - it is not meant to take the same beating as the Tiger, but it sure as hell dishes out a lot more hurt). Again, all your USF tanks have severely reduced movement penalties, so keep them moving.

Not really. 3 squads of panzergrens with shreks defeat shermans easy.
In this game i was played with Armor Company and M10's. (I still do not have Heavy Cavalry)

3 squads of schreck panzergrenadiers lose infantry fights and that is 1080 Manpower, 360 munitions of dedicated AT power. They SHOULD defeat a Sherman tank easily.

Let's recap. So, in your 4th ever 1v1 automatch game you loose to a guy playing a certain strategy. And, checking his recent history, he lost 3 out of his 5 recent games as Ostheer vs. USF.

So, maybe, just maybe his strategy isn't as OP as you think?

Good thing you attached a replay. If you post it here with a nice request, I'm pretty sure some strategist can give you some advice on how to deal with situations like these.

Opening a thread in the balance section for this is most likely an - erm - suboptimal solution.

Grens squad health is the lowest actually which means less damage needs to be done until you can retreat them

In the sense of 4 man squad X 80 health per model maybe yes. But you have to remember that Grenadiers have a lower received accuracy of .91 that most other factions (except Brits) - so when you're talking about small arms battles its all pretty much a wash.

Of course explosions don't care about received accuracy (but that's why they fixed squad spacing in WBP) - but if your squad is eating Tank shells you're probably going to retreat regardless.

Let's recap. So, in your 4th ever 1v1 automatch game you loose to a guy playing a certain strategy. And, checking his recent history, he lost 3 out of his 5 recent games as Ostheer vs. USF.

So, maybe, just maybe his strategy isn't as OP as you think?

Good thing you attached a replay. If you post it here with a nice request, I'm pretty sure some strategist can give you some advice on how to deal with situations like these.

Opening a thread in the balance section for this is most likely an - erm - suboptimal solution.

Thank you very much for advice.