OKW's early game over-dominance

Thank god other people noticed this too... OKW is just ridiculously on the first 5 minutes of the game, you can't output the same firepower because their units are cheap and too strong. OKW have almost no manpower problems beside teching. If you don't wipe a few squads on the 5-15 minute mark you are doomed late game with the terminators volks

also, another question for the list: Why the hell OKW STILL have salvage?!

OKW STILL have salvage?!

No cache maybe.

Another problematic unit but from OST:

Sturmpanzer IV "Brummbär" (Non doctrinal)

it's very hard to kill, can rape at-gun and infantry squad vet or not very easily.May have smoke escape.

Why ? (from Coh2 guide): By using the Attack-Ground command on the Brummbär, the tank will fire exactly where you click on the map. Use this to fire shells directly into the center of blobbed infantry and cause maximum splash damage.

USA have the Buldozer (Doctrinal) that share the same purpose, but is less durable.

UK have the Croc (doctrinal) Great unit.

The problem : it's non doctrinal.

Then use a MOVING tank.Sherman will do fine is brummbar is unsupported.It's great vs blobs,so maybe don't blob if you don't want to be wiped.I agree that poor USF AT doesn't stand a change vs brummbar but given the same resources,1 brummbar means 1 jackson.so you can kite him a lot.

Then use a MOVING tank.Sherman will do fine is brummbar is unsupported.It's great vs blobs,so maybe don't blob if you don't want to be wiped.I agree that poor USF AT doesn't stand a change vs brummbar but given the same resources,1 brummbar means 1 jackson.so you can kite him a lot.

"will do fine it brummbar is unsupported" , why should it be unsupported ? Shreckers/pack will/should protect it and the Sherman or Jackson won go near it.


Can it have smoke screen ?

Should be doctrinal.

Thank god other people noticed this too... OKW is just ridiculously on the first 5 minutes of the game, you can't output the same firepower because their units are cheap and too strong. OKW have almost no manpower problems beside teching. If you don't wipe a few squads on the 5-15 minute mark you are doomed late game with the terminators volks

also, another question for the list: Why the hell OKW STILL have salvage?!

Tommies, Riflemen, Penals all have better damage output than Volks and can all be upgraded with handheld AT even though volks had their shreks removed 'cos "Not fair to have blob countering their hard counter". But it's ok that allies can have it. #Alliedfanboylogik

To me it seems that really only conscripts fare badly vs Volks. So perhaps something should be done about that. All other mainline infantry outperforms them in terms of power and functionality.

"will do fine it brummbar is unsupported" , why should it be unsupported ? Shreckers/pack will/should protect it and the Sherman or Jackson won go near it.


Can it have smoke screen ?

Should be doctrinal.

Well USF has mortar so his pak can be killed quite easy.You can flank the brummbar and he is dead.Use your rifleman smoke to flank from different positions and don't bunch rifleman otherwise you will be wiped

Tommies, Riflemen, Penals all have better damage output than Volks and can all be upgraded with handheld AT even though volks had their shreks removed 'cos "Not fair to have blob countering their hard counter". But it's ok that allies can have it. #Alliedfanboylogik

To me it seems that really only conscripts fare badly vs Volks. So perhaps something should be done about that. All other mainline infantry outperforms them in terms of power and functionality.

You really want to honestly try to argue that a zook or piat blob is better than a volkshreck blob was? Because it's not. Volks when they had the shrecks would hit vet5 (which rifles and tommies don't even have) super fast, especially if someone fielded light vehicles, so their kar98s would make gen able to hold out against even single bar rifles in some cases. They are also cheaper than rifles, and only lose 20% of the squad's firepower as opposed to 40 for double zook rifles (because a single zook won't do shit). Also, shrecks are unarguably the far superior weapon compared to zooks and piats, and against the allies' generally lower armor (shermans, t34s, cromwells compared to okw p4, panther, and vetted ost equivalents), they have a much larger chance of penning their targets than zooks even at max range. Piats missed a lot, and tommies suck when you don't micro them. Nuff said about that. All this combined made volkshrecks a unit that could fight literally anything with very little skill involved.

Inb4 "allied fanboy go kys"

You really want to honestly try to argue that a zook or piat blob is better than a volkshreck blob was? Because it's not. Volks when they had the shrecks would hit vet5 (which rifles and tommies don't even have) super fast, especially if someone fielded light vehicles, so their kar98s would make gen able to hold out against even single bar rifles in some cases. They are also cheaper than rifles, and only lose 20% of the squad's firepower as opposed to 40 for double zook rifles (because a single zook won't do shit). Also, shrecks are unarguably the far superior weapon compared to zooks and piats, and against the allies' generally lower armor (shermans, t34s, cromwells compared to okw p4, panther, and vetted ost equivalents), they have a much larger chance of penning their targets than zooks even at max range. Piats missed a lot, and tommies suck when you don't micro them. Nuff said about that. All this combined made volkshrecks a unit that could fight literally anything with very little skill involved.

Inb4 "allied fanboy go kys"

A lot of what you said was right.

But I didn't say that zooks etc were as good shreks.

Am saying they cause a similar problem. Handheld AT blob is an option for the allies and they shut down the axis mediums pretty well. The argument that Volks were shutting down allied mediums was valid. But almost the same thing is happening with zooks, piat blobs.

I agree, zooks aren't as lethal and they won't deal with the heavy tanks like shreks did. But still, it's mainline infantry able to shut down medium tanks when it should be the other way round.

This thread is funny. If you're talking about 1v1 OKW early game is entirely map dependant and it becomes a map issue or faction design flaws. Team games OKW are weak early, their weaknesses are just covered by Ostheer. No garrison clear, MG, reliable AT etc. Late game the OP units are unit issues, not faction issues. Ex. Command panther coordinated fire, JT Ele ISU-152. Stuka is more of a skill shot and a major hit or miss. I'd rather have the consistancy of other rocket arty based on range to target reducing scatter than the stuka. Not that the stuka is bad, it just functions different and is either nearly unpunishable or does nothing.

Tommies, Riflemen, Penals all have better damage output than Volks and can all be upgraded with handheld AT even though volks had their shreks removed 'cos "Not fair to have blob countering their hard counter". But it's ok that allies can have it. #Alliedfanboylogik

To me it seems that really only conscripts fare badly vs Volks. So perhaps something should be done about that. All other mainline infantry outperforms them in terms of power and functionality.

A lot of what you said was right.

But I didn't say that zooks etc were as good shreks.

Am saying they cause a similar problem. Handheld AT blob is an option for the allies and they shut down the axis mediums pretty well. The argument that Volks were shutting down allied mediums was valid. But almost the same thing is happening with zooks, piat blobs.

I agree, zooks aren't as lethal and they won't deal with the heavy tanks like shreks did. But still, it's mainline infantry able to shut down medium tanks when it should be the other way round.

you are full of shit. Volks just wipe the floor against all mainline infantry. and when things don't go your way you can always throw the retarded flame nade or the cheap infiltration skill nades to swing things in your favor.

Just look at this as example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCfmsWycFxg even though USF was clearly better at the beginning, OKW held his own and even had a slight advantage on the first 5 minutes. but if the okw player actually got the better engagements, this would be pretty much over as soon as it started.

Just look at this as example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCfmsWycFxg even though USF was clearly better at the beginning, OKW held his own and even had a slight advantage on the first 5 minutes. but if the okw player actually got the better engagements, this would be pretty much over as soon as it started.

From the engagement you're referencing from the replay, the USF player stayed at range in open cover versus volks in green cover, then advanced through red cover to said volks.

you are full of shit. Volks just wipe the floor against all mainline infantry... blablabla

Cmon..., the amount of toxic pollution coming from this guy. Plenty of replays around where IS, bared up riflemen, penals melt through volks like hot knifes through butter. And then he finds one that doesn't even proof his point?

From the engagement you're referencing from the replay, the USF player stayed at range in open cover versus volks in green cover, then advanced through red cover to said volks.

I have experienced a full life RM on yellow cover losing or calling draw vs a full life volks no cover at mid/long range.
I have experienced a lot of situations where Volks simply beat RM on short distance due to RNG factors or simply using a grenade.
We have to be honest, voks trades very well vs most expensive infantry.

Volks get STG on the field while RM need to retreat to their barrack
Volks STG is egal to RM+1 Bar, which let them trade favorably for a long period of time.
Volks get flamnade with the first truck.
Volks get MG34 support from any truck build.
Volks have Sturmpioner as support unit which let them trade even more favorably vs 2 RM/Penal/IS/Cons or whatever infantry you want.
Volks flamnade is just a reverse factor on too many situations. I understand OKW need them for clearing building and flamnade are perfectly fine for that. But on the open field, it is just an OP grenade that deny cover and let you finish your opponent with your STGs.

I have been playing a lot of random 2vs2 games on allied side lately and every single game is the same story. My parter, Brit or Sov get reck after 10 minutes. So maybe the matchmaking is joking me assigning me everytime a dump partner or simply they can't do shit vs what have become OKW and in some extend Ostheer.
My only victories are when the system assigns me another USF player now...

you are full of shit. Volks just wipe the floor against all mainline infantry. and when things don't go your way you can always throw the retarded flame nade or the cheap infiltration skill nades to swing things in your favor.

Just look at this as example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCfmsWycFxg even though USF was clearly better at the beginning, OKW held his own and even had a slight advantage on the first 5 minutes. but if the okw player actually got the better engagements, this would be pretty much over as soon as it started.

Wow. "You are full of shit".

One game does not prove a point. Especially not this one, since the player mismanaged his riflemen. Check the stats before frothing at the mouth and raging about posts on a forum. If you can find some numbers that show I'm wrong, that'll do. Your first attempt to disprove me was an abortive failure. Better luck next time.

PS Skill nades are as easily dodged as regular nades due to the animation. Flame nades the same. Your troops will tell you when to move. But really we're talking about small arms, not nades and other micro tips and tricks. Try to focus, you'll understand better.

Wow. "You are full of shit".

One game does not prove a point. Especially not this one, since the player mismanaged his riflemen. Check the stats before frothing at the mouth and raging about posts on a forum. If you can find some numbers that show I'm wrong, that'll do. Your first attempt to disprove me was an abortive failure. Better luck next time.

PS Skill nades are as easily dodged as regular nades due to the animation. Flame nades the same. Your troops will tell you when to move. But really we're talking about small arms, not nades and other micro tips and tricks. Try to focus, you'll understand better.

hahaha still full of shit.

"one replay prove nothing!!11!!" you provided NO replays to prove that volks lose to other infantry, so I made infinite more proof than you, but I can provide 10 more replays if you want. so what you will be your next excuse? I just played a game where my guards got shit on at long range against volks.

"nades can be dodged" lol sure, you just have to move for like 3 seconds, making your dps shit and lose your cover while the volks melt you away, you are a genius!

PS Skill nades are as easily dodged as regular nades due to the animation. Flame nades the same.

YOU WON'T dodge flame nade to the face. Regular nades or even nuke elite nades have a timer, which makes dodging them on landing a possibility.
Flame nade dodging possibility comes from it's fly time, which is negligible when sharing the same cover.

That been said, they are expensive and the only real anti garrison tool they have.
KINDA OFF: would it make more sense to give them molotov or make it only target garrison instead?

Tommies, Riflemen, Penals all have better damage output than Volks and can all be upgraded with handheld AT even though volks had their shreks removed 'cos "Not fair to have blob countering their hard counter". But it's ok that allies can have it. #Alliedfanboylogik

The problem was that Volks ACTUALLY gained AI when they upgraded schrecks (sniping models) and vet. Which means they didn't sacrifice AI presence on top of been cheaper to reinforce and they could still pick up weapons on field (vet AT issue just fixed on this WBP). Volk schreck blob was as mindless as maxim spam. You didn't care about losses, you A move and retreat after firing a volley of AT and sniping a tank.

NO ONE puts Zook/PIATS on Rifles/IS. IS are expensive and suck on the move and Rifles are on a simil boat. Penals AT blob is a joke and makes you look bad but if you mention it. NOW, the real platform for double AT are RET (which got mp and vet nerf) and RE (proper nerf to vet3 and PIAT change).