OKW's early game over-dominance

That really shouldn't be a problem, considering the available tools. All of those factions, except UKF have no access to an early MG, so taking the building is just a little stall for grw. On the allied side, it's much more difficult. We now have the short range USF mortar and UKF has nothing until flame upgrade on a UC. If anyone is more well equipped to deal with the situation of not getting their favorite building on the map, it's Ost.

Yes, for OST this is less of a problem. But OKW in particular can assert a lot of pressure early one, since they can push with volks and then cap with the Kubel, if other factions push they often have to sacrifice resource connection. It's not a huge problem, but the OSt-OKW combo can be strong early on, if OKW occupies an important building and then giving it to OST to put an MG inside. Soviets can either build a mortar, a sniper or molotovs, but molotovs are underwhelming as probably most people here would agree on.

OKW is simply faction with no weakness. With a free choice of general, without missing any unit type. In addition to 4-5 star of veterancy.

Apart from their lack of garrison clearing, very limited access to suppression, extremely expensive tanks, no sniper, and a tech structure that forces them into a 'one or the other' style of play.

Oh yeah and no Caches and no bunkers (without doc).

Apart from their lack of garrison clearing, very limited access to suppression, extremely expensive tanks, no sniper, and a tech structure that forces them into a 'one or the other' style of play.

Oh yeah and no Caches and no bunkers (without doc).

Versus garrison are quite good incendiary grenades from volks. Realy, try them.
And new Flak HT do it well also.

Extremely expensive tanks. Lol do you like superlatives?

Suppression = MG34, Flak HT and later Vet4 Obers

OKW sniper is Rakketen AT (invisible with retreat option and more durable then regular sniper). And snipe Allied TD is more fun, then snipe model from squads.

And Tech structures give them choice, if going for puma/luchs/stuka, or going for field gun, Flak HT and map-hack HT.

Overall they are most fun and in team games almost the strongest faction.

Versus garrison are quite good incendiary grenades from volks. Realy, try them.
And new Flak HT do it well also.

That's more or less saying that the best way to deal with USF Jeep or Soviet clown car is by using PAKs and pgrens with schrecks. Yes, it works, but the timing is the issue here.

Suppression = MG34, Flak HT and later Vet4 Obers

The timing of all these are terrible for OKW. MG34 is way late and ineffectual. Compare to the USF 50cal in terms of utility: you don't spend 50 fuel for an MG. The FlakHT as well comes late for being a suppression platform: Every allied faction can have a strong AT counter for it by the time it hits the field. And relying on vet4 obers for suppression...?

You respond to questions with answers, not stupid questions.

Yes, but you respond to stupid questions with stupid questions to show how stupid the original questions were.

Your questions were stupid.


You should play lots of OKW and see how much advantage they have early game. Post some replays for us where you show how AWESOME KILL MACHINEZ they are, as you described.

But you can't. 'Cos they aren't.

Yes, but you respond to stupid questions with stupid questions to show how stupid the original questions were.

Your questions were stupid.


You should play lots of OKW and see how much advantage they have early game. Post some replays for us where you show how AWESOME KILL MACHINEZ they are, as you described.

But you can't. 'Cos they aren't.

+1

OP should be so OP as he says OKW is and play OP games with OP factions, then post some new OP's about his findings.

MAYBE we'd be more understanding about his opinions by then.

Versus garrison are quite good incendiary grenades from volks. Realy, try them.
And new Flak HT do it well also.

Extremely expensive tanks. Lol do you like superlatives?

Suppression = MG34, Flak HT and later Vet4 Obers

OKW sniper is Rakketen AT (invisible with retreat option and more durable then regular sniper). And snipe Allied TD is more fun, then snipe model from squads.

And Tech structures give them choice, if going for puma/luchs/stuka, or going for field gun, Flak HT and map-hack HT.

Overall they are most fun and in team games almost the strongest faction.

Okay so i'll say first i play high level 1v1 (not a boast just explaining my point of view on this).

So OKW have flame nades which cost muni everytime you use them (flamer doesnt) and the other guy just hops out the building. Well done you have them out the building... only now you cant get in it either.

Flak HT may be slightly improved but it is not an anti-garrison tool.

Yes, Cromwell is 110 fuel, OKW P4 150. Tech cost also favours brits. T-34-76 is 80 fuel, the 85 is 130. The Sherman is 110 as well.

Okay so you are saying the Raketten is the sniper for OKW? No.

How many successful OKW builds do you see that go MedHQ THEN Mechanised? The two are pretty much mutually exclusive in 1v1 high level play. If you do go for both then you have to rely on the Command Panther meaning you DON'T have a free general choice.

OKW is the hardest army to play in my experience. But also the most rewarding in late game.

If you don't be aggressive early game you are gonna have a very, very bad time.

Okay so i'll say first i play high level 1v1 (not a boast just explaining my point of view on this).

I dont know your gaming experience, but for myself OKW is very easy in team games. Maybe when I reach first 100, rivals will be much harder.
To happiness I only need OKW Commander with JadgPanther.

I dont know your gaming experience, but for myself OKW is very easy in team games. Maybe when I reach first 100, rivals will be much harder.
To happiness I only need OKW Commander with JadgPanther.

Haha I only every play up to 2v2

3 Major non doctrinal factors tip the balance in favor Axis in the larger team formats (2vs2, 3vs3, 4vs4), making the game feeling too unbalanced too be fun to play.

The more the players, the more those factors have a larger impact.

The factors:

1) OKW's Walking Stuka : (Non-doctrinal)

A) Coming in game as fast as the 10-12 minute, way faster then anything similar.

B) Citation from an CoH2's Guide : "Unlike other indirect fire weapons, the Walking Stuka chooses the direction of its 6 rockets, creating a destructive line."That mean it can target and destroy nearly what it want reliably.


2) OKW's Sdkfz 251/20 Half-track w/Infrared Searchlight: (Non-doctrinal)

A) Not enemies units can hide in the fog of war, Couple with W-Stuka, leIG or any other Arty,it multiplies their power a lot.

3) OKW's Battlegroup Headquarters (Tier 2) :

1) Citation from an CoH2's Guide: "Behind a shot blocker and near the front line is a great choice." It combine a toggle forward retreat point with a healing station. This help Axis (OKW) to stay closer to the critical spots a lot faster then anybody else. Add the fact that OKW weapons upgrade are made on the fly... And all problematic factors are non doctrinal.

Conclusion:

When those 3 factors are well used in team formats (2vs2, 3vs3, 4vs4), it give the Axis a nearly unbeatable edge, supposing that the playing teams are evenly matched. Axis is evenly more formidable when their team is composed of an even mix of Ost and OKW.

When the game was launched, the Alies (SOV, USA) did have some advantages that compensate a bit for those factors, but as those advantages where diminished with time/patches, the factors enumerated above became predominant and slowly started to unbalance the game to the point that it's not fun enough to play the team formats.

Level the playing field around those factors and the game will be better and FUN again.

The dps should be increasing from early game to late game (progressively), in this way the player has a smooth adaptation to these changes.

For all factions

Proposed solutions for my post above:

1)For the Walking Stuka : Make it come no sooner that the Katyusha, or the Calliope.

2) Infra Red half-track : Swap it with something else on a Cmdr to make it doctrinal like a Valentine tank.


I would swap it for the infra Red half-track for the elite doctrine 2CP - Signal Relay

-Adding the signal relay hability as a 30 fuel uprgrade to the Kubel wagon;

-Adding the infra Red half-track to the elite doctrine for 3 CP.



3) OKW's Battlegroup Headquarters (Tier 2) : Remove the toggle on retreat, lower is life a bit, lower it's cost a bit. So it's placement will become a critical decision.

When the game was launched, the Alies (SOV, USA) did have some advantages that compensate a bit for those factors, but as those advantages where diminished with time/patches, the factors enumerated above became predominant and slowly started to unbalance the game to the point that it's not fun enough to play the team formats.

Are you joking? Allies have been receiving mostly buffs and OKW taking mostly nerfs since the release of WFA. This is literally the first patch to nerf allies more than a couple adjustments in the past 3 years. I challenge you to show me otherwise.

OKW came out massively OP, and they've been slowly cutting away all their little BS stuff for years. Acting like there was some golden time in the past were allies were stronger then than they are now is nostalgic at best, and delusional at worst.

Let me know if you want to return to a time where the sturmtiger is nondoctrinal, you can get multiple king tigers, volks have schrecks, kubel suppresses, 60% of soviet units are useless, obers are terminators with extra accuracy against retreating squads, and all the allied tank destroyers suck dick.

Are you joking? Allies have been receiving mostly buffs and OKW taking mostly nerfs since the release of WFA. This is literally the first patch to nerf allies more than a couple adjustments in the past 3 years. I challenge you to show me otherwise.

OKW came out massively OP, and they've been slowly cutting away all their little BS stuff for years. Acting like there was some golden time in the past were allies were stronger then than they are now is nostalgic at best, and delusional at worst.

Let me know if you want to return to a time where the sturmtiger is nondoctrinal, you can get multiple king tigers, volks have schrecks, kubel suppresses, 60% of soviet units are useless, obers are terminators with extra accuracy against retreating squads, and all the allied tank destroyers suck dick.

Do you think that the 3 factors I've enumerated above are important for an Axis team ?
Can you rank them ?
Could you play without them ?
And Which one if any would you miss the most ?

If you could answer those few questions it would greatly help me to understand.

Please.

Do you think that the 3 factors I've enumerated above are important for an Axis team ?
Can you rank them ?
Could you play without them ?
And Which one if any would you miss the most ?

If you could answer those few questions it would greatly help me to understand.

Please.

As long as the brits and USF also get forward retreat points, there is no reason to just take it from OKW. I want them to take it away from all 3 factions, because it goes against basic gameplay design of the game and puts them at a significant advantage over EFA on large maps. Promotes blobbing too much.

IR halftrack is also lame as a gameplay mechanic, should be reworked.

Walking stuka is fine. It's loud and predictable, and easily dodged by single squads. It only really threatens blobs or teamweapons, or a player who is not paying attention at all. The calliope can be just as effective against teamweapons, I don't really see it being a problem. Spread out your units more.

Your three points are really two points.

The walking stuka is a great unit indeed. BUT that line is as much a blessing as it is a curse. On certain maps with choke pointy lanes it can wipe a whole army, but so can any form of rocket artillery in this game. Only difference is that the walking stuka barrage falls once.

The biggest issue I ever felt the walking stuka had was a high health pool that makes it hard to kill.

The ir ht does amplify axis players ability to time and aim indirect fire. It is a form of maphax that really can give axis teams an edge. Definitely most effective in large team games when you can reveal the locations of 2 to 4 players for your whole team.

I feel like the ir ht could do a scanning sweep as a timed ability with a cool down more than just being maphax.

The flakht is indeed been a contentious issue. It can't be placed in vp sectors and is expensive. Ideas to have an upgrade that unlock the gun, and maybe the panther as well, have been tossed around.

The real issue I belive you're having is a situation where okw players but leigs or stukas with an ir ht near the flak hq. This is a hard point to cracking indeed. It is the closest axis equivalent of bofors with mortar pits.

The answer? Superior allied indirect fire. Don't put teamweapons in lines or move multiple units in default formations.

Are you joking? Allies have been receiving mostly buffs and OKW taking mostly nerfs since the release of WFA. This is literally the first patch to nerf allies more than a couple adjustments in the past 3 years. I challenge you to show me otherwise.

OKW came out massively OP, and they've been slowly cutting away all their little BS stuff for years. Acting like there was some golden time in the past were allies were stronger then than they are now is nostalgic at best, and delusional at worst.

Let me know if you want to return to a time where the sturmtiger is nondoctrinal, you can get multiple king tigers, volks have schrecks, kubel suppresses, 60% of soviet units are useless, obers are terminators with extra accuracy against retreating squads, and all the allied tank destroyers suck dick.

well things did improve, but aint good enough.

look at the stupidly crazy vet they can get, this vet was given to them because okw was designed around elite units and resource starved. now they are no longer resource starved nor in anyway have units that players have to pay a premium for. they are priced similarly to any other regular unit.

not only that, taking out schrecks and replacing them with stg44s makes volks an elite assault unit, able to wreck infantry enmassed, throw nades and practically bully infantry fights. other factions have inherent weaknesses. soviets have practically trash infantry, UKF tommies +mg combo are okay but fails against so many stg44s. USA rifles match volks man for man generally unless they can close in, which is not practical when sturmpios are lurking about. but then again volks are cheaper and thus would be happy to trade with riflemen.

on top of that, tommies and rifles have to spend mp/fuel to unlock their weapon racks in order to be able to put out enough firepower to deter a charge from massed volks, who are now even more deadly with stg44s that require no side-grade to unlock and also free flame nades.

now, ALL allied light vehicles(AEC, stuart, T70) are nerfed to a point where they no longer do meaningful damage to an infantry swarm and are only used to hunting down other light vehicles. but their low damage per shot means they arent great at that either.

so now what is an allied player going to do against an army that can upgun themselves without the need for side-grades, free access to nades, infantry that have a distinct stat advantage against their own and having their clutch units nerfed?

As long as the brits and USF also get forward retreat points, there is no reason to just take it from OKW. I want them to take it away from all 3 factions, because it goes against basic gameplay design of the game and puts them at a significant advantage over EFA on large maps. Promotes blobbing too much.

IR halftrack is also lame as a gameplay mechanic, should be reworked.

Walking stuka is fine. It's loud and predictable, and easily dodged by single squads. It only really threatens blobs or teamweapons, or a player who is not paying attention at all. The calliope can be just as effective against teamweapons, I don't really see it being a problem. Spread out your units more.

Understood,but :

Forward retreat point come faster then anything else, you can't retreat to ambulance t'il major and Brits must build it instead of fielding more unit thus surrendering map control.

The stuka kill garrison(building) and at-gun and mines/demo, and come early 10 to 12 min. most of the time you can't react, and if you can, a move in the wrong direction and it's flexible line of fire can still get you...

Can you still answer my questions plz ?

Your three points are really two points.

The walking stuka is a great unit indeed. BUT that line is as much a blessing as it is a curse. On certain maps with choke pointy lanes it can wipe a whole army, but so can any form of rocket artillery in this game. Only difference is that the walking stuka barrage falls once.

The biggest issue I ever felt the walking stuka had was a high health pool that makes it hard to kill.

The ir ht does amplify axis players ability to time and aim indirect fire. It is a form of maphax that really can give axis teams an edge. Definitely most effective in large team games when you can reveal the locations of 2 to 4 players for your whole team.

I feel like the ir ht could do a scanning sweep as a timed ability with a cool down more than just being maphax.

The flakht is indeed been a contentious issue. It can't be placed in vp sectors and is expensive. Ideas to have an upgrade that unlock the gun, and maybe the panther as well, have been tossed around.

The real issue I belive you're having is a situation where okw players but leigs or stukas with an ir ht near the flak hq. This is a hard point to cracking indeed. It is the closest axis equivalent of bofors with mortar pits.

The answer? Superior allied indirect fire. Don't put teamweapons in lines or move multiple units in default formations.

P.S .The flak is not that a big deal it's rather the retreat/healing station truk that is problematic. See my first post for the explanation.

Your are right, but it always nearly to late to win when you can crack it..