OKW's early game over-dominance
19 Apr 2017, 05:37 AM
#161
Posts: 212
There have been a few people claiming the MG34 is good. I wonder just how good, I would like to see a replay of one being effectively used if possible.
19 Apr 2017, 06:36 AM
#162
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
I don't believe you, were you playing 4v4?
And of course that doesn't matter since the exception doesn't prove the norm or the fact that the mg34 has low dps and high vet requirements, making it impossible to vet fast
1vs1 around rank200-150, I see regularly up to 2 HMG34 to support and lock territories. The HMG isn't too good or too bad, it does the job if you support it well.
You cannot take the HMG34 in a vacuum without taking in account all the strength the faction has in the IA department.
The true is USF didn't need the Mortar and OKW didn't need the HMG34 in the first place. The mortar was broken the HMG34 not but it doesn't change the fact those changes are simply game breaking.
19 Apr 2017, 07:21 AM
#163
Posts: 930
It's better than allied MGs, that is for sure.
big arc, good RoF, good suppression and good ability. And it's cheap as hell on top of that.
finally someone with good sense!!
and yeah, you get flaktruck to defend you flank and put 2 mgs defending mid, there you go, now you have locked 50% of the map.
On maps like crossroads or kholodiny, this is backbreaking since you have no room to manouver as allies.
big arc, good RoF, good suppression and good ability. And it's cheap as hell on top of that.
1vs1 around rank200-150, I see regularly up to 2 HMG34 to support and lock territories. The HMG isn't too good or too bad, it does the job if you support it well.
You cannot take the HMG34 in a vacuum without taking in account all the strength the faction has in the IA department.
The true is USF didn't need the Mortar and OKW didn't need the HMG34 in the first place. The mortar was broken the HMG34 not but it doesn't change the fact those changes are simply game breaking.
finally someone with good sense!!
and yeah, you get flaktruck to defend you flank and put 2 mgs defending mid, there you go, now you have locked 50% of the map.
On maps like crossroads or kholodiny, this is backbreaking since you have no room to manouver as allies.
20 Apr 2017, 14:56 PM
#164
Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7
finally someone with good sense!!
and yeah, you get flaktruck to defend you flank and put 2 mgs defending mid, there you go, now you have locked 50% of the map.
On maps like crossroads or kholodiny, this is backbreaking since you have no room to manouver as allies.
Uhm, maybe you can use AT gun or light tank to force flak to pull back and mortar/smoke to flank HMGs. Or use HMGs on your own, All allied hmgs outfight hmg34.
20 Apr 2017, 16:05 PM
#165
Posts: 930
Uhm, maybe you can use AT gun or light tank to force flak to pull back and mortar/smoke to flank HMGs. Or use HMGs on your own, All allied hmgs outfight hmg34.
how the hell I'm going to make an static base unit move back?!
unless you are talking about flak HT which is another big problem right now, the thing just doesn't die anymore, you don't even need to be that good at microing, and the suppression and damage are huge.
20 Apr 2017, 16:24 PM
#166
Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7
how the hell I'm going to make an static base unit move back?!
unless you are talking about flak HT which is another big problem right now, the thing just doesn't die anymore, you don't even need to be that good at microing, and the suppression and damage are huge.
MG´s can be forced to retreat, Flak HT can be forced to pull back and agressively placed FlakHQ can be destroyed by indirect fire/AT gun.
There are many OKW related problems but I´m 100% sure hmg34 or agressive flakHQ is not one of them
20 Apr 2017, 18:16 PM
#167
Posts: 976
The lack of Soviet offense, even with the new maxim (better def, less spammy) is still problematic to the point of « making the Axis faction look overpowered.»
Conscripts : faster mototovs an better/faster veterency scaling.
Mortars : Need them to have a faster firing rate (auto) : +25% faster
T-34 : Lack durability: need better hit points : + 15%
Conscripts : faster mototovs an better/faster veterency scaling.
Mortars : Need them to have a faster firing rate (auto) : +25% faster
T-34 : Lack durability: need better hit points : + 15%
VoltarDark
Long live to COH3, the new king of all team RTS !
Long live to COH3, the new king of all team RTS !
20 Apr 2017, 23:02 PM
#168
Posts: 3053
MG´s can be forced to retreat, Flak HT can be forced to pull back and agressively placed FlakHQ can be destroyed by indirect fire/AT gun.
There are many OKW related problems but I´m 100% sure hmg34 or agressive flakHQ is not one of them
I think the flakhq is stupid though. 0 pop, free with teching bofors that gets repaired by sturmpios (which run circles around everyone else) and has a pretty good range and the ability to penetrate allied mediums. You don't have to put it front and center, you can just cover isgs with it and they're basically invincible if you go t1. That's what I do when I play okw and I don't feel like using pumas (love that unit).
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20 Apr 2017, 23:12 PM
#169
Posts: 212
I think the flakhq is stupid though. 0 pop, free with teching bofors that gets repaired by sturmpios (which run circles around everyone else) and has a pretty good range and the ability to penetrate allied mediums. You don't have to put it front and center, you can just cover isgs with it and they're basically invincible if you go t1. That's what I do when I play okw and I don't feel like using pumas (love that unit).
The FlakHQ is a nice mechanic I think. It has a high level of risk reward and players have to think strategically about where to put it. You could argue either which way on it's damage and pen rates but the mechanic itself I feel is a good one. At the heart of every good RTS is calculated strategy and risk reward mechanics.
If you place it too far forward and use it for defence you risk losing 120 fuel and your ability to field any tanks in the mid to early late game, so it isn't always the best idea (depending on the map and how the front line moves in the match).
Repairing it with Stormpios is not as risk free and easy as you make it sound. If the HQ is being mortared and you are trying to fix it, you risk losing a 300MP squad to one stray mortar. Stormpios are super valuable and a heavy cost to replace, not to mention difficult to vet past 2 or 3, so losing them is big.
21 Apr 2017, 01:18 AM
#170
Posts: 2742
The FlakHQ is a nice mechanic I think. It has a high level of risk reward and players have to think strategically about where to put it. You could argue either which way on it's damage and pen rates but the mechanic itself I feel is a good one. At the heart of every good RTS is calculated strategy and risk reward mechanics.
If you place it too far forward and use it for defence you risk losing 120 fuel and your ability to field any tanks in the mid to early late game, so it isn't always the best idea (depending on the map and how the front line moves in the match).
Repairing it with Stormpios is not as risk free and easy as you make it sound. If the HQ is being mortared and you are trying to fix it, you risk losing a 300MP squad to one stray mortar. Stormpios are super valuable and a heavy cost to replace, not to mention difficult to vet past 2 or 3, so losing them is big.
+1
It may be a little gimmicky how it works, but OKW's entire lategame hinges on its survival.
Strategic Territory Points Mod:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
21 Apr 2017, 08:59 AM
#171
Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7
I think the flakhq is stupid though. 0 pop, free with teching bofors that gets repaired by sturmpios (which run circles around everyone else) and has a pretty good range and the ability to penetrate allied mediums. You don't have to put it front and center, you can just cover isgs with it and they're basically invincible if you go t1. That's what I do when I play okw and I don't feel like using pumas (love that unit).
And when you lose it you lose any future medium tank except kingtiger in very long future
21 Apr 2017, 10:53 AM
#172
Posts: 345
And when you lose it you lose any future medium tank except kingtiger in very long future
keep your shit in your base as any other faction and you won´t lose any building....
any faction losing his t4 building lost any future medium tank....difference being here:
1. OKW can field a non-doctrinal heavy even if he/she is not able to defende his buildings...
2. OKW t4 has some sort of auto-defence than no other building/facitons has....
An already muni starved faction (OKW) is now more muni starved and still can't build caches.
21 Apr 2017, 11:33 AM
#173
Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7
keep your shit in your base as any other faction and you won´t lose any building....
Thank you very much from this unexpected, kind, friendly and helpful advice.
I will truly appreciate it in the future.
21 Apr 2017, 13:50 PM
#174
Posts: 3053
The FlakHQ is a nice mechanic I think. It has a high level of risk reward and players have to think strategically about where to put it. You could argue either which way on it's damage and pen rates but the mechanic itself I feel is a good one. At the heart of every good RTS is calculated strategy and risk reward mechanics.
If you place it too far forward and use it for defence you risk losing 120 fuel and your ability to field any tanks in the mid to early late game, so it isn't always the best idea (depending on the map and how the front line moves in the match).
Repairing it with Stormpios is not as risk free and easy as you make it sound. If the HQ is being mortared and you are trying to fix it, you risk losing a 300MP squad to one stray mortar. Stormpios are super valuable and a heavy cost to replace, not to mention difficult to vet past 2 or 3, so losing them is big.
I mean I see what you're saying, but even if one plays it relatively safe, it's still a huge asset against the allies when defending large pushes. I think it could at least cost some pop, as the usf officers do (more free shit with teching, I'll admit). On the sturmpio point, the same could be said about brits going sim city, and while REs are cheaper, they don't repair as fast, especially if the sturms have a sweeper.
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21 Apr 2017, 13:58 PM
#175
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
MG´s can be forced to retreat, Flak HT can be forced to pull back and agressively placed FlakHQ can be destroyed by indirect fire/AT gun.
There are many OKW related problems but I´m 100% sure hmg34 or agressive flakHQ is not one of them
Who's talking about placing a FlackHQ aggressively?
MGs can be flank but can reposition
Flaktrack can be hurt but has smoke to escape.
True is you need a huge force to take 2xHMG + 1 flacktrack + volks/stum around. I can't say it is OP right now cuz we are still discovering the new patch but it sprending quite fast around players now. We should see how other factions can counter it effectively, if they can.
21 Apr 2017, 14:05 PM
#176
Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7
Who's talking about placing a FlackHQ aggressively?
MGs can be flank but can reposition
Flaktrack can be hurt but has smoke to escape.
True is you need a huge force to take 2xHMG + 1 flacktrack + volks/stum around. I can't say it is OP right now cuz we are still discovering the new patch but it sprending quite fast around players now. We should see how other factions can counter it effectively, if they can.
If you force flaktrack to use smoke, you have already won, cause your infantry can close the distance protected with that smoke.
Also HMGs can reposition, but almost always at cost of losing ground if you do flank properly.
The problem with OKW is not hmg34 and flak, it´s their over cost-efficient main line infantry and ealry game shock value.
If volks were more balanced, OKW would be fine. After all hmg34 is just a weak tea compared to the Ost HMG42
21 Apr 2017, 18:58 PM
#177
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
If you force flaktrack to use smoke, you have already won, cause your infantry can close the distance protected with that smoke.
Also HMGs can reposition, but almost always at cost of losing ground if you do flank properly.
The problem with OKW is not hmg34 and flak, it´s their over cost-efficient main line infantry and ealry game shock value.
If volks were more balanced, OKW would be fine. After all hmg34 is just a weak tea compared to the Ost HMG42
Yes but having the volks overperforming make HMG + flaktrak much more redoutable. Now we agree this is probably not the units to be look at first.
21 Apr 2017, 19:38 PM
#178
Posts: 2742
If you force flaktrack to MOVE, you have already won
More accurate...
Strategic Territory Points Mod:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
22 Apr 2017, 01:20 AM
#179
Posts: 3053
Yes but having the volks overperforming make HMG + flaktrak much more redoutable. Now we agree this is probably not the units to be look at first.
+1
Many people will not acknowledge that volks are overperforming though.
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22 Apr 2017, 02:01 AM
#180
Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1
+1
Many people will not acknowledge that volks are overperforming though.
+2
I wonder how they will go around nerfing them, if that ever happens, heh.
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