Future Balance Patch Teasers

Here is my say on conscripts. While fighting grens, they are pretty balanced, but there is a large imbalance between conscripts and volks. While their base damage relative fine, for me it is the very accessible STG upgrade that pretty much state Volks win. The STG upgrade is a flat damage upgrade that I would like to see changed. I have made a mod that could replace the STG upgrade to a squad MP 40 upgrade. This transforms the squad into close range only. This upgrade I made also added in a smoke grenade that shared cool downs with the incendiary thus now they can assault and close distances easier.

There is also another problem with when facing LMG 42s. Grenadiers are to inherently weak when facing other infantry with out it. Stock grens will lose to penals and infantry sections at all ranges. Grens at long range vs rifleman are about a fifty-fifty toss up. An additional problem with grens is that ostheer is force a delayed start with their standard infantry locked behind a building and the MG 42 is not the greatest when facing in the early game. Additionally your opponents starting unit can go out grab a frontal garrison or point giving them powerful early advantage and thanks to Ostheer larger cost in teching, they never really have an advantage in any point in the game.

My advice before we talk about balancing tanks and the late game we need to balance the early game. The early game has more influence over how the late game performs than the late game units themselves. The winter balance patch only really affected light vehicles, bug fixes, and some utility rather than tackle the problem as a whole. Do not get me worn the mod team a did a great job, but they were limited scope.

You say penals ? Problem now that before it was to OP but now, with MP price its a hard, i mean sviet game based on MP.
PPSH work only on some map. Cheap ? Tell me how many cost gevers and STG , in what CP thay are compared to ppsh .
Maybe change cost is a thing.

'gevers and STG' What are these?

Cons aren't meant to be able to go toe to toe with other more expensive and specialized units. Cons ARE cheap and they can have AT nades and Molotov's and can sprint AND merge. They are six man and have doctrinal upgrades which allows them to outfight other MUCH more expensive units if you play it right. The PPSH's with Oorah make them seriously potent. I think cons are one of the best designed and most balanced units in the game; its other over and under preforming units which need adjusting.

I think you are being unfair Vasa.

Leave everything about the comet as is, but nerf the armour so that Stugs can fight them and panthers pen most of the time and you get a balanced tank... a jackson with an all-round gun. unique tank with a weakness... perfect.

The Comet has to be the "gentle" nudge for OST to consider teching up and, you know, maybe get a Panther. By nerfing Comet armour you are making Panther even more irrelevant than it already is.

The Comet has to be the "gentle" nudge for OST to consider teching up and, you know, maybe get a Panther. By nerfing Comet armour you are making Panther even more irrelevant than it already is.

that's what i mean when i say 'Stug's can fight them' so the Comet still kills the stug but the stug has a chance to fend it off...

Panther should be the harder-counter.

ATM stugs literally do not touch the Comet. Remember the Comet can also self-spot, which is fine if you can pen the damn thing in return.

I dont think we have dissimilar ideas here.

The Comet has to be the "gentle" nudge for OST to consider teching up and, you know, maybe get a Panther. By nerfing Comet armour you are making Panther even more irrelevant than it already is.

is there a Brit Balance patch in prospect ?

come on, give us a hint

is there a Brit Balance patch in prospect ?

come on, give us a hint

Handbrake v2 on Flamehetzer

is there a Brit Balance patch in prospect ?

come on, give us a hint

There will probably be another vote on the official forums and that will determine the next patch's scope.

With the amount of anger at Brits i think we can be sure Brits are up next

Leave everything about the comet as is, but nerf the armour so that Stugs can fight them and panthers pen most of the time and you get a balanced tank... a jackson with an all-round gun. unique tank with a weakness... perfect.

Every time someone brings up the cost/perfomance of an bad allied vehicle and points out how it is much too expensive and doesn't do much compared to its axis counterpart, somebody says that you can't compare units in a vacuum or something similar. Examples of this are the M20 that costs 340/70/20 yet can't beat anything more than a kubel. Yet somehow all T4 allied units are supposed to be beatable with Ost T3.

Every time someone brings up the cost/perfomance of an bad allied vehicle and points out how it is much too expensive and doesn't do much compared to its axis counterpart, somebody says that you can't compare units in a vacuum or something similar. Examples of this are the M20 that costs 340/70/20 yet can't beat anything more than a kubel. Yet somehow all T4 allied units are supposed to be beatable with Ost T3.

If you could formulate a more coherent point I will be happy to respond more constructively.

The Comet has to be the "gentle" nudge for OST to consider teching up and, you know, maybe get a Panther. By nerfing Comet armour you are making Panther even more irrelevant than it already is.

Will something be done about the Ostheer Panther's accuracy and dps?

'gevers and STG' What are these?

Cons aren't meant to be able to go toe to toe with other more expensive and specialized units. Cons ARE cheap and they can have AT nades and Molotov's and can sprint AND merge. They are six man and have doctrinal upgrades which allows them to outfight other MUCH more expensive units if you play it right. The PPSH's with Oorah make them seriously potent. I think cons are one of the best designed and most balanced units in the game; its other over and under preforming units which need adjusting.

I think you are being unfair Vasa.

Gev43 ppsh are in 3 cp, gev43 at 1, STG dont have CP. Now tell me what price are of this 3 weapons.
For cons price its must be. If cons price was 200, but not same like grens and almost folks. I talk that soviet elite infatry are to expensive and not good (are in docs), that the problem. Cons are not cheap, dont trust in that myth, look at reinforce cost for cons, grens and folks in half of squad and 5/3/4 model.
So all infatry have ablity, rifle nade and faust. Flame nade and faust. Only different its oorah and merge.
And what more expensive unit ppsh or ptrs outfight ? If its work, we will se it, coz top players use meta. Do you see ppsh ?
So if cons are balanced, we must say that somthing are not ? Imo i think big problem are with hight RNG accuracy for them.
I begin talk about MP, coz soviet "based" on MP. Guards need more test but i think that double nerf are to bad. Shocks are still useles.

Gev43 ppsh are in 3 cp, gev43 at 1, STG dont have CP. Now tell me what price are of this 3 weapons.
For cons price its must be. If cons price was 200, but not same like grens and almost folks. I talk that soviet elite infatry are to expensive and not good (are in docs), that the problem. Cons are not cheap, dont trust in that myth, look at reinforce cost for cons, grens and folks in half of squad and 5/3/4 model.
So all infatry have ablity, rifle nade and faust. Flame nade and faust. Only different its oorah and merge.
And what more expensive unit ppsh or ptrs outfight ? If its work, we will se it, coz top players use meta. Do you see ppsh ?
So if cons are balanced, we must say that somthing are not ? Imo i think big problem are with hight RNG accuracy for them.
I begin talk about MP, coz soviet "based" on MP. Guards need more test but i think that double nerf are to bad. Shocks are still useles.

Jesus man if you cant win with Cons use maxims... Plenty of top players use cons, they just don't expect them to be the best inf in the game like you do.

If you could formulate a more coherent point I will be happy to respond more constructively.

You think Cons are okay, want T3 Stugs to beat Comets, and think that the Jackson is great now that it was balanced for the T3 P4. If I shortened the post to calling you an axis fanboi, you probably wouldn't respond constructively to that either.

Using opinion, even opinion polls to determine the direction of balance is a really bad idea. This game had very well balanced win rates before the patch, but wasn't fun with lots of bugs, overpowering indirect fire, and lots of cheese abilities. It's still too early to tell, but I'd bet that once the new meta settles out that it won't be balanced and will be even cheesier. Your suggestions for the next patch won't help that.

You think Cons are okay, want T3 Stugs to beat Comets, and think that the Jackson is great now that it was balanced for the T3 P4. If I shortened the post to calling you an axis fanboi, you probably wouldn't respond constructively to that either.

Using opinion, even opinion polls to determine the direction of balance is a really bad idea. This game had very well balanced win rates before the patch, but wasn't fun with lots of bugs, overpowering indirect fire, and lots of cheese abilities. It's still too early to tell, but I'd bet that once the new meta settles out that it won't be balanced and will be even cheesier. Your suggestions for the next patch won't help that.

Could you please read my posts a bit more closely please.

Jesus man if you cant win with Cons use maxims... Plenty of top players use cons, they just don't expect them to be the best inf in the game like you do.

Jesus man i whant make discourse, but okey. I dont whnat thay was best, i mean thay was close to same level not only in early game in time where soviet elite infatry are bad.

Yet somehow all T4 allied units are supposed to be beatable with Ost T3.

You greatly misread that. The StuG should be able to defend itself, even against a Comet. Just like a T-34/76 can fight a Panther when it gets to its rear armour - the difference being, that the StuG can't flank, because it has neither a turret, nor the mobility to do so. The idea is, that those fuel investments don't become magically useless, as soon as the Comet hits the field, which would be okay for a low-fuel unit like the Stuart or the T-70. The SU-76 also can do a decent enough job at fighting Panther's (in relation to its cost, I'm not saying that it is easily done), just to give an example of the other side.

The Comet has to be the "gentle" nudge for OST to consider teching up and, you know, maybe get a Panther. By nerfing Comet armour you are making Panther even more irrelevant than it already is.

That logic could work, if it was possible to pull of a Tier IV tech in time AND have enough resources for the Panther, without taking the shit performance of the Panther into consideration. By the time a rushed Comet hits the field, you're still several minutes off to even have Tier IV ready as Ostheer, and that is without building the Panther. People like to forget that Ostheer still is the only faction that has over twice the tech-time by pure teching alone.

The result is, that the Panther comes out later, does less in general, and then on top of all that can't even fight the Comet properly, which is not really the fault of high armour on the Comet's part. So whether you nerf the Comet's armour or not is of absolutely no relevance to the Panther, it will only make it easier to survive without the Panther.

I´m not sarcastic.


Stug needs a nerf, at least slight now. It´ rof is too high right now imo

It performs on the necessary level to work with all the medium tank buffs Allies got over the past year or so (or in the case of the Brits, those existed since their inception). If those were to be toned down to normal levels, so that a Sherman doesn't outperform a Panzer IV at AT duties while costing less and having the option for better AI capability, the StuG would indeed need to be toned down.