MARCH 28th UPDATE

I was on the edge off trying out 1v1 once again. All those bugfixes and qol-features look sooooo good.

The only thing that will realy annoy me are the 50 placement-matches i will have to survive , AGAIN

What´s the big deal about 10 placement matches?

@AllPlayersThatSayNew222Suck

222 is completely fine to counter what it´s intended to (light vehicles, not light tanks like stuart,t70 or AC, that arrive 2-3 minutes later)

Also new 222 works much better as "finishing vehicle". Try shoting t70/stuart first with pak when it shows and then finish it off with 222. Ostheer is about combined arms, not about spamming, so use them

...

As far as I remember, 222 counters m20/m3/uc in live version and are still doing the job in the WBP. Pulling out 2 or 3 of them to counter Stuart/AEC/T70 has never been the intended design. Thus I don't really understand what you are complaining for.
The 222 is better because you don't need anymore to dive in in order to get some kills on infantry squads. You can sit at max/mid range and get reliable kills the same way the m20 does. Getting Xp and using its abilities.

What´s the big deal about 10 placement matches?

10 per faction... and first time i had to do those I got top 10 players as opponents. Realy motivating

10 per faction... and first time i had to do those I got top 10 players as opponents. Realy motivating

That´s just bad luck. My emplacement matches have always been varying in terms of opponents´ quality.

Funny thing is that it is after the emplacement games that I usually only get higher ranking opponents, at least with USF. Including top players that are 7-9 ranks above me. Now that´s what I call frustrating because you would expect MM to give you opponents that are rougly on your level.

I remember Smith complaining about the lack of feedback, and when i used to play coh2, couldn't find a single WBP game during hours.

Lack of feedback or lack of the 'right kind' of feedback? I played plenty of WBP games, but I can't save replays on my rig without CoH2 chugging. And most people I ever played WBP with or against aren't .org people, just players of the game who saw the announcement ingame. I doubt they knew about the 'feedback thread'.

Plenty of the WBP feedback replays were preconstructed strategies where the players were specifically trying to create certain situations. When the players involved are trying to manufacture results, the value of that feedback is rather constrained.

Great for testing bug fixes and if something functions correctly. It is an entirely different thing gauging how gameplay, balance, and the metagame will be affected.

The only thing that will realy annoy me are the 50 placement-matches i will have to survive , AGAIN

You don't have to. Only your rank is hidden, your ELO is still the same.
Of curse your rank has fallen a bit but with 2-3 matches you get equal skilled opponents.

As far as I remember, 222 counters m20/m3/uc in live version and are still doing the job in the WBP. Pulling out 2 or 3 of them to counter Stuart/AEC/T70 has never been the intended design. Thus I don't really understand what you are complaining for.
The 222 is better because you don't need anymore to dive in in order to get some kills on infantry squads. You can sit at max/mid range and get reliable kills the same way the m20 does. Getting Xp and using its abilities.

Well, do tell what the supposed counter to the T-70 and Stuart is then? Because those things arrive at a time when you can't go for Panzerschrecks or mines yet (because your Grens will lose the infantry battle otherwise), and AT guns alone have never worked against light vehicles. That leaves the Panzer IV and StuG, which means the enemy will have over five minutes of complete field control. That is what I am complaining about.

This could work, if AT guns were significantly more mobile (i.e. could turn much faster and would have the setup time of a bloody factory), but in the current state there is no adequate counter on the Ostheer side. So we're back to the problem of Ostheer being unable to fight light vehicles, which is exactly what the cheap 222 was originally meant to do, that is exactly why Relic abandoned the 221 and made the vehicle come out with the 20cm cannon pre-installed instead.

On top of that, the M20, M3, and UC never were the problem here. Those can be countered by infantry and MGs (just like the 222 by the way), because they have relatively low armour. Meanwhile, the 222 can't simply sit at range against infantry, because then it won't get any kills. That thing was worse off against infantry than the M20, and according to the patch notes it still won't be any better (only more consistent). So you have a vehicle more expensive than the M20, less effective against infantry, that now also can't fight vehicles as well anymore. That either means the 222 has been fucked up, or that Ostheer is missing a vehicle class that can actually fight light tanks without breaking your bank account.

P.S.: We wouldn't even have the problem, if we went back to the 221/222 idea, and made the 221 perform actually good against infantry and the 222 good against light tanks. That would of course require considerable work on the 221/222 to make it fit both roles respectively, which probably would have meant less time spent on Penal Troops...

Just out of curiosity, how was your preservation like with the 222? The new 222, as well as most of the vehicles in the patch, actually require you to acquire veterancy before you can go for the deep dives.

The new 222 is no longer a vet0 suicide-rush vehicle. You invest in it, it gets veterancy, and it pays back. It also pays back a lot better than live-version 222.

The changes also mean that you don't have to dive-in every time for the 222 to do any damage. You can sit back, and kite. Then, use the improved mobility and keep your distance and keep kiting; while doing damage; while gaining vet. Ask anybody that has actually played WBP vs a human opponent, and they will tell you the same.

This requires a change in mentality.

PS: If the only testing you did was vs AI then, of course, the changes in 222's mobility make absolutely no difference. The AI is static either way.

My 222s usually always lasted until the first tanks showed, sometimes a bit longer than that (the problem was, that the 222 needed to provide the necessary baiting to prevent the enemy tanks from fucking up my infantry until my first tank showed up, which is by the very design of Ostheer's teching structure always later than a Cromwell, Sherman, or T-34). Occasionally, I would lose one of them earlier, because of mines or because I simply fucked up and misjudged my dive capabilities in certain situations. These vehicles were by no means throw-away tools.

The problem with your assumption is, that you don't even take the other vehicles into consideration: Everything is just as mobile as the 222, and everything packs more of a punch. So you were already forced to stay at range, in order to pull back and escape if necessary - the only exception was, when a Stuart or T-70 were severely wounded and a dive might have gotten them out the picture. That was also the only situation when the loss of one of the 222s would have been acceptable.
With the new 222, nothing in that regard has changed, except that you can't do the dive anymore, because you only have one 222, which you then of course can't risk losing. At the same time, the performance of a single 222 hasn't been raised to the level that a single 222 is enough, so now Ostheer players are even worse off than before.

And of course it helps to read, I said that most of my matches were against AI, not all. The problem with such a small scale test was, that player skill was quite far stretched, with me sometimes being the complete underdog because I was simply not as good as my opponent, while at other times I completely destroyed some poor sod who didn't know better. There were perhaps two matches where I was relatively even matched to my opponent, and only one of those happened when I was playing Ostheer - the results were pretty telling in my eyes, but a sample size of one doesn't make for good proof. The issue still stands though, because the numbers don't magically disappear.

Not quite right. Some light tanks just need a bit more time to wipe inf now.

The AEC received massive buffs, and it can out-cheese the Stuart's stun shot by its new thread-breaking shot. The T70 is a lot more durable now. The Stuart has better penetration, and can vet faster.

Not to mention the fact that the new PIAT is a super Bazooka-Shreck hybird.


Allied Light Tanks will be still powerful, and people will be building them as often as they used to. The 222, on the other hand, has literally no purpose anymore, as by the time it arrives the allied "Scout/Clown Cars" have done the their damage.

I don't think the timing of the 222 is off, the performance is the problem here. People were getting two 222s before, because one wasn't good enough and because the price allowed it. With the new cost, that isn't possible anymore, while the other changes to the 222 were made with the intention of keeping its performance on the same level with "more consistency" as before. And some of the changes are completely pointless (like the penetration buff), because they result in single-digit percentage-changes.

Effectively, that is a massive nerf. And that nerf will be felt. One 222 wasn't good enough to even soft-counter a Stuart or T-70 before, so it won't magically be able to do that now (especially as some of those vehicles have gotten more health). And that means that all the changes to the Stuart's and T-70's anti infantry capability will have been for naught, because these changes will now only slow things down instead of preventing them.

snip

Are you literally only going 222 spam every match?
The 222 is not the only counter to light tanks. The 222 was not and is not designed to beat light tanks that are more than double its price by itself.

Ostheer has:
- pak
- schrecks
- teller
- puma
- fausts
- still the 222
- every combination of those

The significant nerfs to AEC, t-70, and Stuart ai means you don't have to YOLO all in try to kill their light tank or lose every game. You need to #adapt to the new meta. Play some WBP and submit replays here if you want some help with that.

Good job with new patch !!!

My predictions :

1 vs 1 :
Rather balanced;

2 vs 2, 3 vs 3,4 vs 4 :
Allies will struggle more in the the starting phase, especially if one or more US faction are in play.

Overall : We will see...

I just have a question.

With shocks being shocks and such nerf for Guards, what is soviets' elite infantry?

I just have a question.

With shocks being shocks and such nerf for Guards, what is soviets' elite infantry?

Guards, DSHK.

Also Maxims too, until they get eventually nerfed.

I just have a question.

With shocks being shocks and such nerf for Guards, what is soviets' elite infantry?

cons with ppsh!!!!

Are you literally only going 222 spam every match?
The 222 is not the only counter to light tanks. The 222 was not and is not designed to beat light tanks that are more than double its price by itself.

Ostheer has:
- pak
- schrecks
- teller
- puma
- fausts
- still the 222
- every combination of those

The significant nerfs to AEC, t-70, and Stuart ai means you don't have to YOLO all in try to kill their light tank or lose every game. You need to #adapt to the new meta. Play some WBP and submit replays here if you want some help with that.

Thanks for not reading a single word I have written. I have referred to all of those options, with the exception of the Puma (which I might add is in a single, obscure Ostheer doctrine). Is that what "snip" means nowadays? "I haven't read the post I am quoting here, but let me reply to it nonetheless."

P.S.: May I add that "Everyone who doesn't have my opinion sucks, here is the replay forum so you can get good, NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOBBBBBBBBBBB!!111!" isn't a very convincing argument either? That I do at least somewhat know what I am talking about would have been obvious to you if you had actually read anything I wrote (I know, reading is hard; all those letters...), so perhaps that is the underlying issue here.

For fucks sake, with Mr. Smith it is at least possible to bring arguments, because he reads them. With you it is like talking to a machine that selects answers from a limited pool of pre-written sentences.


P.P.S.: @ Mr. Smith Is it intended that PIATs are still a bit... lackluster? Sure, they are cheap as hell, and a perfect tool for your Royal Engineers, but IMO they still seem quite underwhelming compared to other AT options. Might be something that could be improved on once British tanks are brought in line.

date of next balance patch ?

date of next balance patch ?

Seriously?
Since WBP was played out few weeks to check the faction balance, I think we will have to wait a while until next balance patch occurs. Im affraid, if for example maxim spam will be sucky unbeatable well known strategy, it still doesnt get nerfed anytime soon :-/

Guards, DSHK.

Also Maxims too, until they get eventually nerfed.

Guards (with coming nerfs) are hardly elite when compere to Obers, Paras, Rangers or even PzGrens.

Personally, for me it's more obvious to give them a buff but increase call-in cost and reinforce to make them powerful, expensive and elite to encourge to use Penals/Cons instead of making them semi-main line infantry.

Thanks for not reading a single word I have written. I have referred to all of those options, with the exception of the Puma (which I might add is in a single, obscure Ostheer doctrine). Is that what "snip" means nowadays? "I haven't read the post I am quoting here, but let me reply to it nonetheless."

P.S.: May I add that "Everyone who doesn't have my opinion sucks, here is the replay forum so you can get good, NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOBBBBBBBBBBB!!111!" isn't a very convincing argument either? That I do at least somewhat know what I am talking about would have been obvious to you if you had actually read anything I wrote (I know, reading is hard; all those letters...), so perhaps that is the underlying issue here.

For fucks sake, with Mr. Smith it is at least possible to bring arguments, because he reads them. With you it is like talking to a machine that selects answers from a limited pool of pre-written sentences.


P.P.S.: @ Mr. Smith Is it intended that PIATs are still a bit... lackluster? Sure, they are cheap as hell, and a perfect tool for your Royal Engineers, but IMO they still seem quite underwhelming compared to other AT options. Might be something that could be improved on once British tanks are brought in line.

Well if you suck, at least with a replay we can tell you so. We all know there is a flaw in the design by not having given stock light tank to Ostheer, but it doesn't mean we must flaw it even more with a lightly armored car spam meta beating light tanks every games.