Lack of Inclusivity of CoH2's Community in DoW3 Beta

I don't know what is funnier. If thinking dow3 can be a success or coh2 is not dead yet.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1465880926/coh2-grand-championship-series

I mean, nothing is impossible and the community seems to want it...
I cant stop feeling that the people that dont want this to happen are some casual 4v4 players, for some odd reason.

A coh2 tournament does not by any means=esports not even the actual esports that coh2 had wasn't all that successful either, it has to be sustainable for longer than just a few months. If you are trying to imply that I'm a casual 4v4 player then you are horribly wrong I was top 30 2v2s and top 10 3v3 for ages. I haven't played the game for months because the game is extremely stale and it takes way too long for patches to be released.

Ofc people want coh esports that would be awesome but its simply unrealistic at the moment thanks to relic's incompetence and the small playerbase which cannot be remedied no matter how many successful community tournaments there are.

If you are trying to imply that I'm a casual 4v4 player then you are horribly wrong I was top 30 2v2s and top 10 3v3 for ages. I haven't played the game for months because the game is extremely stale and it takes way too long for patches to be released.

To me 2v2's, 3v3's and 4v4's are all "sand from the same bag" as people from my country say and if you havent played the game for so long why are you trying to shut down the active players dreams? Even though this is something mostly impossible to achieve for coh2 it can show relic and sega that this community really wants this and who knows if there will be a coh3 and who knows if they actually make the game esports worthy.

To me 2v2's, 3v3's and 4v4's are all "sand from the same bag" as people from my country say and if you havent played the game for so long why are you trying to shut down the active players dreams? Even though this is something mostly impossible to achieve for coh2 it can show relic and sega that this community really wants this and who knows if there will be a coh3 and who knows if they actually make the game esports worthy.

Never said I was trying to shut down players dream they can do it all they want but its simply unrealistic for coh2 atm and if you read my previous posts you would see that I also mentioned that its still achievable but only in a newly made game (not coh2). Also putting all team players into the same bag is a pretty ignorant thing to say especially since the majority of the community comes from these games modes despite the emphasis on 1v1.

Yup I think we should blame Relic that they didn't invite people to the Closed Beta who constantly rage and shittalk about Relic, their games (and RNG ) live on streams.

P. S. I dont wanna be an *** but this includes especially you, wada

Since there's little or no focus on competitive RTS players, I take that to mean that Relic isn't really interested in competitive gaming.

I'm done wishing for something they obviously have no interest in delivering.

Yup I think we should blame Relic that they didn't invite people to the Closed Beta who constantly rage and shittalk about Relic, their games (and RNG ) live on streams.

P. S. I dont wanna be an *** but this includes especially you, wada

I can't speak for others but my position has always been "here are the problems and here are the solutions" I've reached out despite never getting anything in return (if anything, it has been a net negative for me due to not being added to the streamer list & having the warpaint bracket rigged.) If I really didn't give a shit about coh2, I would have became a footman and enjoyed all of those perks.

I can't speak for others but my position has always been "here are the problems and here are the solutions" I've reached out despite never getting anything in return (if anything, it has been a net negative for me due to not being added to the streamer list & having the warpaint bracket rigged.) If I really didn't give a shit about coh2, I would have became a footman and enjoyed all of those perks.

I'm sure they will add you to the streamer list, it just takes a long time. Agreed warpaint seeding was shit all around but what do you expect. Who cares about DOW 3? It will be a trash game. They removed everything that makes COH unique just to become another Starcraft clone with more microtransactions.

I can't speak for others but my position has always been "here are the problems and here are the solutions" I've reached out despite never getting anything in return (if anything, it has been a net negative for me due to not being added to the streamer list & having the warpaint bracket rigged.) If I really didn't give a shit about coh2, I would have became a footman and enjoyed all of those perks.

I mean, I kind of get where you're coming from. I've been trying to not only identify solutions to problems, but present working tuning packs that detail how and why Relic should address them. Results are 100% radio silence from every community manager and developer that's graced us with their presence.

I am still mystified as to how Relic chooses people from the community to listen to.

So I get the frustration you might be feeling as far as being ignored or maligned in some way.

But that said, I've never really taken to making public statements and appeals to Relic as a whole. I have always tried to handle it privately, since I understand that my opinions and ideas are just that: my own. I may feel like I have the holy grail or that what I've done is important, but it's not my place. They didn't ask for my help, so I don't feel snubbed when they don't take it.

But there's a bit of a caveat. When relic does address the community or utilizes some community members, I can be quite critical of any notions if those folks don't share or respect this sense of humility.

So i mean, if relic won't listen to me, best I can do is try to argue my points to those that relic will listen to. And thats been the (losing) gamble I've had to make instead. Most who are lucky to get Relics ear tend to guard it jealously. Plead your case to stormless and ae or something rather than this sort of open letter. Even if they go lol no its probably better than ranting publicly.

It's better to get endorsement of your opinion from people currently in relics favor than seeking it for your own, or faulting relic for not showing you favor. This is more of a life lesson in playing politics than anything coh2 or relic related, I mean ffs.

You forgot Barton............

So setting aside the word-salad nonsense about leadership, culture, and horrible analogies about high school quarterbacks.

This all amounts to wada crying that he didn't get into the beta.

Every single stream of yours has at the very least more whining about balance and typically devolve into nonsensical flaming of Relic (particularly when you're getting your shit pushed by better players). If I were employed by Relic, I would not want "pros" (LOL) of your caliber to even purchase my game, much less bend over backwards to give you an invite to a closed beta.

In short, you reap what you sow. Relic doesn't owe you shit.

So setting aside the word-salad nonsense about leadership, culture, and horrible analogies about high school quarterbacks.

This all amounts to wada crying that he didn't get into the beta.

Every single stream of yours has at the very least more whining about balance and typically devolve into nonsensical flaming of Relic (particularly when you're getting your shit pushed by better players). If I were employed by Relic, I would not want "pros" (LOL) of your caliber to even purchase my game, much less bend over backwards to give you an invite to a closed beta.

In short, you reap what you sow. Relic doesn't owe you shit.

Damn.

So setting aside the word-salad nonsense about leadership, culture, and horrible analogies about high school quarterbacks.

This all amounts to wada crying that he didn't get into the beta.

Every single stream of yours has at the very least more whining about balance and typically devolve into nonsensical flaming of Relic (particularly when you're getting your shit pushed by better players). If I were employed by Relic, I would not want "pros" (LOL) of your caliber to even purchase my game, much less bend over backwards to give you an invite to a closed beta.

In short, you reap what you sow. Relic doesn't owe you shit.

My resume speaks for itself: 10 yr competitive gamer, top 10 clan leader in WiC, LoL meta forecaster, top 3 NA coh2 esl champ. I could go on but these are just some of my major accomplishments.

Meanwhile Relic's resume is a total inverse of fail. Lets look at this past year: Lead balance dev Brad broke the AEC & took a month to patch OP AEC & OP brit arty call in. Despite this being during the biggest & first relic sponsored tourney, Brad takes a week off because he had a cold but was healthy enough to 1v1 Queen Ratchet on Momo's stream. Vetereceny was broken during ESL. The hotfix broke the game and had to be reverted. Miragefla fixed vet in his mod before Relic. Maxims were broken during March ESL. Von Ivan abused them to victory for an entire month but no balance fix to them or a ban on the partysans commander (since maxim strat relied on partysans), also NA esls had caster problems - One final didn't even have an official ESL cast so momo & von ivan had to step up to cast it.

After ESL, the entire dev team was fired since thats the best way to build your esports scene /s. After that, took them 3 months to copy & paste miragefla's balance mod changes into the game and somehow broke the USF mortar. Took a week to hotfix & a month to nerf (and some would argue it is still OP). Combined arms bug made usf able to see and shoot everywhere at an insane rate of fire. In august/September, warpaint happened and was herpa derp. The brackets got leaked & controversial seeding (if this happened in LoL, SC2, CSGO, people would be losing jobs). The finals were anticlimactic: finals pushed back for in-person finals & naggano got disqualified because he couldn't get there in person. The pre-final stream a day before wasn't even fullscreen hd webcam. On the day of the finals, they were able to get a fullscreen webcam but poor audio & lack of any production (no face cams on players or any type of in-person venue). The opening rounds had more viewers than finals. There was absolutely no way to tell it was in-person, except for the post game interviews, which could have been done over skype. Not even a trophy was there. In closing, Warpaint was an excuse to drum up hype to give people an incentive to buy skins. After warpaint started, and no reason to buy skins, Relic didn't really care about promoting it; tourney organizer & community manager Kyle went on vacation before warpaint even concluded.

Following Warpaint, we were told there would be a patch road map in august. Relic goes on radio silence until the end of october where they said there would be a winter patch. Three community members are making the patch since its cheaper than paying devs to do it. Its spring and there is still no patch and really, the patch boils down to much needed nerfs to t70, sniper, stugE, and 222, which is all stuff we've known were problems for 6+ months. Also a skin patch in december breaks the game by allowing squads to have infinite weapon upgrades & art assets dissapeared.

Lastly this doesn't get into the major problems that need reworks rather than just balance changes: RNG, USF rework, UKF rework, callin rework, ect. When it takes forever for basic balance changes, there isn't hope for reworks and coh2 is probably dead once dow3 hits.

I've said relic can redeem themselves with DoW3 but when we are less than 5 weeks from launch and there isn't an on going beta, only a beta week, and ALL pros weren't invited including Relic's right hand man stormless, it don't look good.

As for my personal feelings towards Relic, I've given so much to this game & community over the past years and have gotten NOTHING from Relic in return. They have even been negative towards me. Relic, specifically kyle, went out of his way to rig my warpaint bracket by seeding me 32 out of 32 so I would be against a certain individual, I'm not naming since I don't really care about it anymore. However at the time, I had more than enough evidence that this person's actions constituted harassment and cyberbullying. Despite "fighting against bullying" Relic gave no statement or punishment. Not because they think this person did nothing wrong but because its an action against me. As show by these tweets even months later, kyle's personally feelings keeps me blacklisted.
https://twitter.com/CompanyOfHeroes/status/827618681047748608 https://twitter.com/CompanyOfHeroes/status/827657924038123520
https://twitter.com/relicgames/status/834825236470194176

With the end of coh2 and the beginning of dow3, Relic needs to give me an incentive to care about their game & esports scene. As it stands, there are better games & esports than CoH2 and probably DoW3. My main focus is on LoL because it is a better game & esport and I've been showed much more respect and appreciation by Riot than I've ever gotten from Relic AND IM NO ONE IN LOL. When I get treated better by riot as an average player than by relic as one of their top tier players, I know who I'm siding with. However, even after all this, I'm still willing to give Relic & DoW3 a chance if they can at least meet me halfway. If they give some indication that they care about their esports scene & are committed to TRYING to make DoW3 great, I would give them support & a more favorable appraisal.

Lastly to address your accusation that im not a "pro" and get beaten by better players, Its because it is physically and emotionally draining to play this game. For a long time, I've gotten nothing from playing CoH2 but I did it because I believed CoH2 had a future & because of the support I received from my stream community & the coh2 community at large. After warpaint, I realized this game isn't going anywhere & I can't help it because Relic/Kyle don't like me. I've always believed if I could prove I was better, not just top 3 NA esl champ but top 3 world player, we could work together because all that matters is winning. It doesn't matter if we like each other as long as I can get the job done & we can make coh2 great. After warpaint, I realized it doesn't matter how better I become. I take it as a personal failure and a failure towards the community that I can't make coh2 great again. For the rest of 2016, I was depressed. I hate to lose and I hate to have failed my community.

So my "flaming" isn't nonsensical. I'm very justified because of the poor job Relic has done with CoH2 & our community. CoH2 is a good "fun" game but it could have been a great game & a great esport. My "flaming" is passionate because I care about CoH2 & our community. I may be overly harsh in my presentation due to all the pain I've experienced but the message is 100% true.

So my "flaming" isn't nonsensical.

you have made some good points on how relic has fucked up (and they have done so big time), but your point would have much more impact if it didnt contain this massive amount of narcissism

btt:
dow3 is different, still coh2 players will have a much easier time adapting to its concept than other playres, therefore getting coh2 pros to test the game would have been a) an easy way for good feedback and b) a nice way to introduce the coh2 community to dow3. but it seems that relic is taking the same approach with dow 3 as they took with coh2 and that is a path to failure....

Damn.

how is that gif so perfect?

Wada, you have valid points. But just having valid points don't make you valid in public I fear. Half of the validity depends on the character of the person. Whether that is fair or not, does not really matter.

Long time ago, you made a thread about how Relic should take care of "top" players, coincidentally when you yourself were getting stream-sniped and trolled. It was self-serving. Then I watched your streams and multiple times you made fun of HelpingHans and the fact that he watches particular anime....

And this thread pops up when DOWIII beta starts and you didn't get an invite. Your points make sense and your resume is impressive but it is obvious that Relic's non-inclusive policy of players of your calibre is hurting your personal ego and that is why you are making these threads.

valid points nonetheless.

They have been the same company for a long time now. They seem to be taking some steps to improve though like supporting the community patch which is nice, though they clearly cant do anything big financially at this time.

A lot of people seem to expect a lot from relic because they have made some great games, but i think the reality is a lot of the people who produced some of that work(Homeworld, Coh1, Dow1 even COH2) Aren't there anymore. Even PQ who was big on the balance team isn't there anymore . People like Cruzz may honestly have more experience with Coh2 than some employees since they may have been playing and tinkering with the game for it's entire lifespan.

It's been 12 years, people move on. It's ultimately the employees and the culture that are going to shape the games they make and change to that will only come internally.

My resume speaks for itself: 10 yr competitive gamer, top 10 clan leader in WiC, LoL meta forecaster, top 3 NA coh2 esl champ. I could go on but these are just some of my major accomplishments.

None of those are major accomplishments (not even minor) and do not in anyway qualify you to work for a developer or as some sort of expert.

Who is this wada guy?

None of those are major accomplishments (not even minor) and do not in anyway qualify you to work for a developer or as some sort of expert.

No disrespect to Stormless or AE or even GG, but when they started working closely with Relic and Kyle, were they "pros"?
Nope. They were sociable, nice and caring guys who invested a lot of time and effort into building up their credentials and level of trust with Relic.

Roling in and proclaiming to be a "professional" when all you've done for the best part of a year is whining about "esports pro scene" and claiming to be a "leading member of the pro scene" is probably a big turn off.

Fucks sake Wada try to be humble for once.