Next Balance Scope should be Tank Balance

In the survey for WBP Relic thought it was a good idea to put specific units instead of the problems at large. But hopefully instead of buffing/nerfing specific units, the balance team should be given the scope towards ALL tanks(doc and non-doc) and not be limited to some specific no-brainer units (Comet & Cromwells come to mind) so that each tank can be balanced towards what they're supposed to be good at instead of just duct-taping stuff that leaks out the most. I prefer that Relic for their next survey should not limit balance issues towards specific units, instead just entire stuff they're related to(infantry balance instead of Gren balance, Tank instead of Panther etc.)

Plus if the Relic Gods allow they can even fix Company of Callins(Screw Tech) that predominate the meta right now that allows players to stall for heavies even if they're almost certain of losing and didn't even tech to even medium tanks. Plus some underperforming units should get buffed as well(Bulldozer Sherman should get Brummbar stats but slightly altered/Suxton should be buffed to at least Priest level/Command P4 should get normal P4 stats)

Just saying, suxton should never be equal to priest as the suxton has map hacks with the valentine.

call in patch was in the past but not much use

Just saying, suxton should never be equal to priest as the suxton has map hacks with the valentine.

You do realize that a USF Player with the infantry company that calls in a Priest can use the same map hacking ability if there is a UKF player on the field with the Valentine, right?

In fact, everybody on that team can see it, so that's not an excuse to keep the Sexton a shitty fucking unit.

Tank balance in general would be nice, but I suspect the bulk of the patch will be Call-in tanks, Infiltrators and Brit BS.

Also, USF has major's recon run (which nobody seems to use for whatever reason) to spot for its Priests, so its not really an argument. I do agree though, Suxtons shouldn't be superb, they should be the T34s of the artillery and need a popcap reduction to do it.

You do realize that a USF Player with the infantry company that calls in a Priest can use the same map hacking ability if there is a UKF player on the field with the Valentine, right?

In fact, everybody on that team can see it, so that's not an excuse to keep the Sexton a shitty fucking unit.

I do realize this. I also didn't say to keep it shitty. I said unequal. Synergizing the valentine map hacks with the stronger priest in team games is completely fine and encourages teamplay, having the sexton on par with the priest will just make it more viable in teamgames then ever pulling out infantry company.

the biggest mistake during WBP was making surveys for ALL, even a total noob could give a vote, that's why we got penals PTRS and other unreasonable changes, and another survey for tank balance will mean that axis tanks will get utterly nerfed cuz you know, 4v4 noobs really hate axis tanks being "OP"

I do realize this. I also didn't say to keep it shitty. I said unequal. Synergizing the valentine map hacks with the stronger priest in team games is completely fine and encourages teamplay, having the sexton on par with the priest will just make it more viable in teamgames then ever pulling out infantry company.

Alight then, I agree with you.

the biggest mistake during WBP was making surveys for ALL, even a total noob could give a vote, that's why we got penals PTRS and other unreasonable changes, and another survey for tank balance will mean that axis tanks will get utterly nerfed cuz you know, 4v4 noobs really hate axis tanks being "OP"

As much as I hate agreeing with online trolls, he has a point, anyone can vote for stupid changes just because they would like something to get buffed or nerfed in their favor.

the biggest mistake during WBP was making surveys for ALL, even a total noob could give a vote, that's why we got penals PTRS and other unreasonable changes, and another survey for tank balance will mean that axis tanks will get utterly nerfed cuz you know, 4v4 noobs really hate axis tanks being "OP"

+1

-1

most people buy the game for the 4v4 mod.
it means that no one, and especially relic, gives a shit about a 'competitiv' 1v1.

deal with it, coh2 will always be about grabing more & more money from relic without giving anything.

they even made community work for free on a winter balance patch that they won't input before summer...


Most company completely stop support on a game 2 or 3 years after it's released, won't blame relic for doing that, but when these companies stop support, their games are polished, optimized, balanced. Almost perfect.

Who could say that on coh2

that's why most tourneys are hosted for 1v1 mode, then 2v2, and only 1 was hosted for 3v3/4v4 and it was Maza's tourney, i'm not surprised that 4v4 has more players cuz you see, it's god damn 4v4

80% of coh2 playerbase is playing only 4v4.

so yeah, you can keep thinking that 1v1, competitiv game and tournaments are important...

My point is that, obviously, relic doesn't care about that and only want to grab the cash from the 80% people playing 4v4.

edit : could you explain me why you are not surprised that there are more people playing 4v4 "because it's goddamn 4v4" ??
you understand that 4+4=8 ?
it makes more people inside a single battle but not in the game.

not sure if you understood after my explaination but at this point, i'm too afraid to ask

80% of coh2 playerbase is playing only 4v4.

so yeah, you can keep thinking that 1v1, competitiv game and tournaments are important...

My point is that, obviously, relic doesn't care about that and only want to grab the cash from the 80% people playing 4v4.

edit : could you explain me why you are not surprised that there are more people playing 4v4 "because it's goddamn 4v4" ??
you understand that 4+4=8 ?
it makes more people inside a single battle but not in the game.

not sure if you understood after my explaination but at this point, i'm too afraid to ask

4v4 is easier to understand, easier to play, noobs usually start with higher mods rather than 1's, requires actually less skill, but better teamplay, with Lelic lowering price for CoH2 during some event or so people might get that game at very low price, and most of them that never played WW2 RTS are starting playing 4's and stay with it, it's hard to find many 4's players playing 1's

I do agree that Call-Ins should get normalized to Tech. It still boggles my mind how they thought T85s needed to be Tech but Lend Lease Shermans are ok to be No-Tech?

I think Tank Balance is mostly okay aside from some tweaks. Crushwells need to crush less well and Comets are probably too good. SU-76 and StuG are maybe-probably too efficient. Ostheer Panther, Bulldozer Sherman likely needs some kind of buff and maybe Centaur needs some kind of mobility buff or something. But on the whole nothing is too game-breaking I think.

They will probably not nerf Brits, since they still sell too well. I mean, Kyle can propose to the Relic meisters what he wants, but they will go for sells.

With that being said, the problem will most likely again be with the survey. In the last survey could only choose one faction and one unit from the entire game as a problem and that was it. Really Relic lol?

...

Relic can't even balance the 1v1 game mode, you expect them to fix 4v4? 1v1 should be the focus and 2v2 to a degree, the rest is a circus. But with how things are looking now, the mod team is actually trying to standardize damage and unit performance on all levels, but aren't allowed to touch certain units and factions specifically. This will remain a problem and will keep lowering the 1v1 and 2v2 pools. I admit, I have more fun in a 4v4 nowadays than in 1v1 or a 2v2, because 4v4s aren't serious. Having fun in 1v1 and 2v2 is only possible if you abuse. At 4v4 anyone can abuse with any faction, but no so much in a 1v1 or 2v2, here certain factions have a dominance when it comes to abuse and cheese.

As we already know when nerf a unit, you are buff your counter.

The game needs review on all units and skills, call-ins, commanders... ie everything (except things address in WBP). Definitely a great balance patch.

If they ask the community again, we will probably end up with a WC51 nerf and a 9-patch iteration to find out if Sturmpioneers should get 2 shreks instead of 1

what about giving ptrs to sturmpioneers ?

I think the WBP is great. Initially, I was skeptical because of its limited scope, but seeing it played out in King of the Hill with Stormless/A_E has been great.

This formula of taking a long, methodical time to balance the game and doing balance changes within the mod pack released via Steam is also great, as it minimizes potential bugs/imbalances in the live game that can occur with many small changes.

In regards to 4v4 balance, I think a good starting point would be to reduce the amount of fuel/munitions that each point on the map gives the players.

As the maps are larger, there are more territory points. In coh1 it wasn't an issue because you could just plop a strategic point down that only impacted manpower income.

In 4v4 each point could give -2 fuel and -2 munitions and in 3v3 it could be -1 fuel and -1 munitions.

A riskier approach to team-game balance could be to reduce population cap, in 3v3 to 85 or 90 and in 4v4 to 80 or 75.
This would also put less strain on the PCs (good for people who have lower budgets or ageing PCs and for the people who buy the game for $5 on the steam sales) as well as promoting teamplay and cohesion between players. That would make an interesting tournament, I think. Maybe even a 50 popcap for each player in an invitational 4v4 tournament would be interesting.


The way that Relic wants to balance the game is to have uniform stats for units across 1v1-4v4. This is easier for Relic and will not shock players going from one game mode to the other. It's my opinion that the meta changes in automatch depending on rank and player skill. That's probably what Barton was hinting at with his post. "balancing for 4v4" would be impractical, costly in terms of manpower and time, and prevent players from seamlessly playing on different scales.