Command Panther teamgame balance

So we should listen to the person who doesn't play the game vs someone who does, is a Senior Strategist and is good at the game as well? Cool.

How about not tying the argument to the person making it, but instead judging the argument itself?

P.S.: This is meant from a neutral position, I'm not taking a "side" in this particular argument. But the idea that someone's words are intrinsically more relevant because of the person that said those words is illogical. The argument itself should be judged and (if necessary) dismantled, otherwise we come down to what plagues this forum quite a lot: Namecalling...

So we should listen to the person who doesn't play the game vs someone who does, is a Senior Strategist and is good at the game as well? Cool.

I have seen senior strategists actively defend artillery cover and comets on this very forum. Don´t take titles too seriously. As for the not playing the game fact, I changed that a few minutes ago, I actually play the game again.

As for you defending Hector, I don´t mind Hector and think he is on point 99% of the time, but saying a 10 minute KT is possible in the live version in 2v2 is madness and even you could see reason in that.

So we should listen to the person who doesn't play the game vs someone who does, is a Senior Strategist and is good at the game as well? Cool.

Well, I was a bit overreacting about that kingtiger, but I think that good team that knows what is doing will get kingtiger in really good time, even better after WBP once allied cheese is nerfed, surely faster than 1 british comet

I have seen senior strategists actively defend artillery cover and comets on this very forum. Don´t take titles too seriously. As for the not playing the game fact, I changed that a few minutes ago, I actually play the game again.

As for you defending Hector, I don´t mind Hector and think he is on point 99% of the time, but saying a 10 minute KT is possible in the live version in 2v2 is madness and even you could see reason in that.

Tell me who from seniors is defending comet and arty cover ?

I was overreacting with that 10 minutes kingtiger. It wasn´t meant to be 100% true, I posted it to tell you guys that timing in 2v2+ is usually wicked when you know what you´re doing.

Anyway, after WBP good axis team will surely get KT faster than UKF comet on their own

Tell me who from seniors is defending comet and arty cover ?

I was overreacting with that 10 minutes kingtiger. It wasn´t meant to be 100% true, I posted it to tell you guys that timing in 2v2+ is usually wicked when you know what you´re doing.

Anyway, after WBP good axis team will surely get KT faster than UKF comet on their own

I see.

Well not a senior strategist, but a strategists nonetheless. In this thread alone, two of them defend artillery cover faithfully whilst a solid caster and another staff member clearly state that artillery cover is just broken among a platora of other people.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/59096/tactical-support-regiment-aka-arty-cover-clutch/post/590681

As for the comet, I might have overreacted myself

I see.

Well not a senior strategist, but a strategists nonetheless. In this thread alone, two of them defend artillery cover faithfully whilst a solid caster and another staff member clearly state that artillery cover is just broken among a platora of other people.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/59096/tactical-support-regiment-aka-arty-cover-clutch/post/590681

As for the comet, I might have overreacted myself

You have to learn, that we often have bad habbits of telling players how it would be different if you´ve done X instaed of Y. This we have primarily from reviewing replays. It doesn´t means that we say something isn´t OP, we often just mean, that if player played better he could have survived (Sturmapanther said it like that - he wanted to say exatly this, he wanted to add something new to thread instaed of another it´s OP post, while agreeing with community that arty cover is OP). He was right that if axis player played it better, he wouldn´t lose both tanks. He also never stated that arty cover is fine nor balanced. There is big difference between what somebody say and what you think he meant to say.

Torniks is in our ranks mainly for reviewing replays, he is really good at doing it and we are happy we have him for this one job. After fiasco with his posts about balance state we adviced him to no longer post in balance-oriented forums. He is intelligent person and he is not thoughfully doing his duties ad replay reviewer instaed of 90% community trolls who will post bullpudding on balance forums no matter how many times you tell them to stop. We all make mistakes and Torniks as well, but he learned from it and that´s what counts.

We fully support Torniks as badge holder, he deserves badge for what he does for this community in his are.

You have to learn, that we often have bad habbits of telling players how it would be different if you´ve done X instaed of Y. This we have primarily from reviewing replays. It doesn´t means that we say something isn´t OP, we often just mean, that if player played better he could have survived (Sturmapanther said it like that - he wanted to say exatly this, he wanted to add something new to thread instaed of another it´s OP post, while agreeing with community that arty cover is OP). He was right that if axis player played it better, he wouldn´t lose both tanks. He also never stated that arty cover is fine nor balanced. There is big difference between what somebody say and what you think he meant to say.

Torniks is in our ranks mainly for reviewing replays, he is really good at doing it and we are happy we have him for this one job. After fiasco with his posts about balance state we adviced him to no longer post in balance-oriented forums. He is intelligent person and he is not thoughfully doing his duties ad replay reviewer instaed of 90% community trolls who will post bullpudding on balance forums no matter how many times you tell them to stop. We all make mistakes and Torniks as well, but he learned from it and that´s what counts.

We fully support Torniks as badge holder, he deserves badge for what he does for this community in his are.

Right.

Is anybody still on topic? I use command panther too, but never had more vet than 2-3. Either I need Spec Ops because of lack of resources to tech up which means my days are numbered or everything is perfect, I tech up and can choose another commander.
I couldn't name out the most broken unit because if I think about one or another and how they were used vs me and after that I tried to use them by myself then I'm figuring out they aren't broken but it was my fail and everything can be countered.
Don't you expect somebody can call grens OP because they can win 1-on-1 engagement with cons?

Command panther is not OP, by the time it arrives the amount of medium tanks on the ground are plenty, even then so it's flighting comets and such, even then so,

Players might claim it's OP because it POSSIBLY could be a unit the allies have to react to, not the other way around as axis are always reacting to allied units and strats.

Secondly, going command panther and calling it in at a time where it's "early" means your sacrificing a tier, so let's say you don't go for tier 4, you lose the command panther your screwed, if you don't go tier 3. Then Stuka isn't possibly to counter let's say maximum spam or MT spams from the USF or USF blobbs or tier 2 means no meds, or no LEIGs to counter UKF emplacements.

Point is command panther comes at a price

Not to mention, the damn thing has a moving accuracy penalty, it's 225 fuel, and the reload is atrocious.

Just don't be so careless with your tanks

The comet is OP way before the command panther is, an ANTI everything tank that snipes vet 3 infantry, crushes, and threatens tigers. Yeaaa okay. Why do you think every Brit players goes cromwells into comets. EVERY GAME

Command panther is not OP, by the time it arrives the amount of medium tanks on the ground are plenty, even then so it's flighting comets and such, even then so,

Players might claim it's OP because it POSSIBLY could be a unit the allies have to react to, not the other way around as axis are always reacting to allied units and strats.

No it is OP, especially the synergy that it provides. But it is a must currently in 2v2 land vs all the brit and allied cancer, especially comet spam.

Command panther is not OP, by the time it arrives the amount of medium tanks on the ground are plenty

Here is blatant lie. IDK why the allow it here. Liers are ruining those forums.
I say about my main faction that I know. First medium 3476 arrives at 9 CP mark if you play without t70 prior to this point. It can only be different if I play vs imbecil that give me most map and most of his fuel point.
I remember devm on a tournamet got his first 3476 at 13.5 CP. Second game he went straith to IS2 skipping t4 because of this.
This unit is definately overperforming vs mediums and ATGs, even as a direct counter to them.

This unit is definately overperforming vs mediums and ATGs, even as a direct counter to them.

Command Panther costs 225 fuel, and it performs worse than any other vehicle of that fuel cost. The goddamn Ostheer panther has better stats than the CP.




The problem with the Command Panther is it's veterancy getting exponentially better, while at the same time it takes an /extremely/ long time to get it there. That's why both sides will claim it is shit.

In the competitive 1v1 2v2 gamemodes, the fact that it's doctrinal at 10cp and that it has the Soviet mark target are the only reasons why it gets called in.

allied mark target and AT planes are fundamental mechanic that allow to counter far better axis heavy units. Most of the games allies dont have heavies at all. Axis always has them available in their trees.

allied mark target and AT planes are fundamental mechanic that allow to counter far better axis heavy units. Most of the games allies dont have heavies at all. Axis always has them available in their trees.

I hate to be the one to break it to you, you do realize that your words mean nothing on these forums, you have lost all credibility and respect from most if not all people. Your a mindless troll that no one takes seriously. Let that sink in...

Comets, cromwell speed, commando bombs, 10 cp arty ability, brit sandbags, land-mattress.
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Largest problems with the CP is the fact it's a callin and then has the 50% damage buff from all damage sources for 35 munis. If callin meta was punished you'd see far less CP. The CP is generally only used reactionary or preemptivly for allied armor which a lot but not all exceed their cost/power ratio. T34 series for example.

Also to DangerousCloth, The post you made about Torniks he stated that Arty cover would be balanced if it required LoS, which I completely agree with because it's useful for area denial now because it doesn't require LoS to function.

Why are people complaining about a Panther that really is nothing else but a Panther with Mark Target, costing even more Fuel than a normal Panther?

The Command Panther does NOT BENEFIT from its own aura. It is also very hard to stay in game as OKW until 10 CP without a Flak HQ so you somehow even "need" to tech.

This unit is definately overperforming vs mediums and ATGs, even as a direct counter to them.

If you mean Anti Tank Gun with ATG then you are talking bullshit as most of the time aaa. The AT gun will probably only die because of the MG42 (if even) while the main cannon will not kill a single model of the AT gun. No Panther will wipe out a AT gun without taking heavy damage or probably die. It's no Comet that can simply drive to the AT gun, throw a grenade and wipe it.

Players, don't listen to a guy that has 0 plays as OKW, has 10 times more games as Allies and is called "NerfGerms" in Steam
https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198096202048

Mark Target is strong that is true. But with the slow firepower of the Panther, you usually can get off 2 shots at best (if both hit). Just saying that Sovs have mark target that can be applied to any visible Axis unit on the map without needing to get in range, also reveals the map + Guards that can snare a tank meanwhile, all in the same commander.

In my time playing CoH2, I managed to get a Vet5 CP exactly one time. And even then it was destroyed. Also the 225 Fuel means not much other vehicles for OKW that could benefit from the aura.

I decided to sift through the Attribute Editor to get some numbers on the different Panthers.

There is a modifier that is applied to just about every vehicle with a ballistic weapon in the game that I've looked at.

requirement action:
action: multiplication of scatter value by 2 applied to hardpoint_01

requirement_table
required_not: not_moving

This value matches for the Ostheer panther and the Command Panther. But the normal OKW panther's scatter is only multiplied by 1.7. This should mean that moving shots have a better chance to still convert into a hit with the stock OKW panther.

(Interestingly enough, the Stuart has a value of 1.75, which was another oddity to the rule of x2. The 76mm Sherman completely lacks this modifier, adding to its already high moving accuracy.)

As many people know, the moving accuracy modifier is 0.5 for the Ostheer Panther, but also the Command Panther. The stock OKW panther has 0.65 moving accuracy. (And less multiplication to scatter when moving.)

The Ostheer Panther has a far accuracy of 0.03, where the other Panthers have 0.035.

The Command Panther supports a midrange AOE value of .35 instead of .15 for the other panthers. Near misses deal a whole lot more damage with the Command Panther, which spells out much stronger AI capabilities. This I think translates best (or really only) against team weapons, especially when/if the shell hits the team weapon.

(The Command Panther also deals no suppression with its maingun. This I know is negligible.)

There is also a weapon in the Attribute Editor called "panther_kwk42_75mm_vet_mp" but I can't find any reference to where this is used. THIS gun has a moving accuracy modifier of 1. Otherwise it is identical to the stock OKW panther gun.

I went through the vet levels of the Panthers and couldn't find a point where it replaced anything.

All-in-all I think it's worth pointing out that the benefits of the Command Panther include its team game benefits, and the notion that it doesn't require the FlakHQ to be up. Now, while the FlakHQ is pretty critical to OKW anyway, the fact that the CP can be called in if it is destroyed is notable. Had a teamgame the other night where Comets wrecked by base, but the panic-panther saved.