German Sniper should be cheaper

The sniper is still useful, especially in team games and especially with the vet 1 ability.

I'm worried any buff to him will result in the sniper heavy games we saw at the end of the CoH meta.

I quote the age old argument about 1v1 and 2v2s being different kettles of fish

I too, don't want the game to descend into the sniper problems of the original game. At the same time I think the changes of only cammoing in cover and not having bought vet have put an end to such antics. The problem is just Relics (unjustified, unhistorical) approach to giving the soviets larger squads than the Germans. If we were to return to one sniper vs one sniper, there wouldn't be any issue.

The sniper is still useful, especially in team games and especially with the vet 1 ability.

I'm worried any buff to him will result in the sniper heavy games we saw at the end of the CoH meta.

wtf? Show me a team game where the sniper was "useful"

Ost Sniper is shit. No viable dispute existant.

/Thread

German sniper needs to be given back his cloak ability. There problem solved. At least now he can work as a spotter and snipe un attended mortar and AT crews.

The problem with the vcoh comparison is that it really does not work here. This is an entirely different game. Plus, the sniper meta came only after 5-6 years of competitive play. The argument could be made that player micro "evolved" to the level where snipers could be that effective.

This is still a game about maintaining manpower superiority over your opponent and that's what the sniper provides, a high cost/risk and high potential reward. The German sniper currently provides the front end of that statement...

But don't take my word for it. The proof is in the pudding or in this case the replay section. Besides Barton or someone trolling some poor lower level player with 5 of them, a strat that doesn't work nearly as much as he'd like you to think, German snipers are never used. That's because they were neutered to death when the free range cloak ability was taken away, the soviet meta began to strongly rely on scout cars with units in them, their health was lowered to the point where they die in 1-2 hits, and soviet crews, for whatever reason, were given 6 crew members.

I love the cloak ability of snipers but wouldn't reintroducing this ability back into the game move us back to the sniper spam strat prevalent in VCoH?

The sniper mass meta was quite strong internally for a number of months internally. In fact, I believe it is still viable on the German side in team games. Ill see if I can get a replay demonstrating it at some point in te near future.

Sure, the German sniper is more viable in team games. And so is the Soviet Sniper. Even more so. What's your point?

And is this being looked at or staying as-is?

I definitely would like some sort of buff to the ostheer sniper, but if survivability or cost are too dangerous to fuss with, then just a drastic improvement(and edge over russian snipers) in the ability to empty buildings would be nice. Rather than a 40 percent hit chance, it would make the ostheer sniper a lot more valuable if he were somewhat effective at clearing 6 man teams out of buildings. I'd like a 60% or even 75% hit chance against garrisoned units. That's still not overly fast, and hardly nullifies the value of plopping a unit in a house to stall.

Check your metrics for the last couple of months.

Ost Sniper is a complete piece of shit in 1v1 and has no representation at all in tournament play.

I dont give a shit a about carried teamgame metas vs noobs due to the non-existant ladder.

I cant bekieve the shit Im reading here.

Ah, Nullist and his objectivity

He used to be objective but the more posts i see from him the more i see his love for the german side and how it effects his objectivity.

I do agree that currently the German snipe needs a small tweak in some areas but doing to much will turn it into an over powered unit.


Food for thought, if you see a soviet sniper then he will not have access to MG's mortars or AT guns, german sniper can used alongside these units.

Implying any Sov in 1v1 doesnt lol (in its literal meaning, as in laughing out loud, if Ost fields a Sniper).

Admit that at least.

@Crells: You call me biased, but you disregarded that if you see a Ost Sniper, he will have sacrificed the same. What an outright biased and loaded comment.

I called you biased, it was quite obvious, and i no where stated german and soviets snipers were equal.

If i may quote my self "I do agree that currently the German snipe needs a small tweak"

if you read my post wroung then please reread it and dont post such things as "outright biased and loaded comment"

German Sniper isn't worth buying because it has nothing to synergize with.

As somebody who's used the Sniper consistently in my builds since Closed Beta and well past release, I can tell you with confidence that they're not useful.

It's a combination of quite a few things.

1. Soviets have 6 man squads. Let me refer to Dawn of War II because it's the same issue here; If your opponent massed Sentinels, you built Snipers because they were a single-model unit and you could take them down in 3 hits. If your opponent spammed Guardsmen you forgot about Snipers because they were a 6-12 model squad that reinforced for cheap.
Basically, unless your opponent has went with Engineer spam and no Conscripts, there is no point building a Sniper because they don't pay for themselves.

2. They don't have any units to synergize with. The Soviet snipers work quite well because they can get in an M3 Halftrack and go to town with a large degree of safety. German snipers have no such thing. They're out there and extremely vulnerable to anything.

3. Durability. They get instantly killed by pretty much anything. You get an M3 anywhere in the vicinity of a Sniper he knows is there, and it's dead. A Sniper's no good if you have to retreat after every shot and then go all the way back out every time.

4. Single Model Squad. This makes them extremely vulnerable to a counter snipe. You try to sniper a Soviet Sniper, you cause no bleed. A Conscript will reinforce them and pay 20MP for the model(Disclaimer; I haven't actually seen this happen nor have I done it because I don't use Snipers when I play Soviets(P.S. People don't use Merge enough)). And that's if they don't get you. You only get one life with a German sniper, not 2.

Conclusion; I think lowering the price to 300 or 310 should do the job. 360's too much.

you cannot not merge with sniper squads and they cost 90 MP to reinforce.

other than that good post.

Making the Sniper cheaper will make it too spammable. And I belong to the type of people that like to put 8 HM-120mm on the map (who also cost 360 CP). Simply nerfing the cost wouldn't change the fact that the gsniper is shit, so it will be kinda mandatory to spam them. And there'd still be no point building them.

No, snipers shouldn't be spammed. They need to be good, they need to be worth their 360 CP.

It really doesn't need to be cheaper, it just needs to be more survivable. An HP buff would do much to remedy the issue.

HP instead of armor would really be great. The whole armor concept doesn't work on small HP pools.

Check your metrics for the last couple of months.

Ost Sniper is a complete piece of shit in 1v1 and has no representation at all in tournament play.

I dont give a shit a about carried teamgame metas vs noobs due to the non-existant ladder.

I cant bekieve the shit Im reading here.

I'd say the Soviet Sniper is no good in 1v1 either - it's harder to kill but it fires less and is harder to camo.

So it balances out in the end.