Ideas for the Missing 6th faction

We live in interesting times, where burning questions go unanswered. Questions like:

Where is the third Axis faction for Coh2?

If you Google ‘where’s the third axis faction?’ the page fills up with hundreds of different threads discussing this issue, so it’s clearly important to a lot of people. Why there should or should not be a third faction has been discussed ad nauseam, so I won’t waste anyone’s time here. If the law of supply and demand has any say in the matter, a third Axis faction should be in the works. If Relic decided that enough people would buy a third Allied faction to make it a profitable venture, then surely they would consider a third Axis faction as the Coh community has always heavily favoured Axis, and therefore this expansion would make more money.

The second major discussion point of a third Axis faction is: what should it look like? That is the meat of this thread. Before we begin this brainstorming session I would like to establish some guiding constraints, to ensure quality ideas.

1. The faction must be realistic. The occasional rare unit or bending of history is fine, but there’s a limit.
2. The faction must have all the essentials. So, mine-clearing, anti-building, AT, suppression, indirect fire, medium tank etc.
3. The faction must be varied and different from the other factions in relevant ways.
4. The faction should be strategically diverse. This was the magic of the original Coh and we would like to capture that here.
5. No gimic units. Just no.

These are very sensible constraints, and with them in mind, we eliminate Japan and Italy. Japan is obvious but Italy just doesn’t have the tanks to fill the boots of a faction by itself.

So, where does this leave us? Well there are three options, the first is Africa Korps with a roughly 50/50 split of German and Italian. This is a fantastic option, as it would guarantee a whole new theatre (ie the Mediterranean and Italy) with all the new maps that would entail. Yes, you would have to extend the scope of the game, but it would be totally worth it. The second would be a Hungarian Faction with a mix of a few German units. This is also a nice option.

But in my opinion the ideal third faction that we should strive for is the return of the Panzer Elite. The reasons for this are quite simple;

1. Coh 1 nostalgia
2. It doesn’t violate any of the constraints.
3. You can incorporate non-German axis powers into the doctrines, giving you the best of all Worlds.

It would need a bit of a re-haul, as, let’s face it, the original PE was a bit broken. They were still viable at reasonably high level play but they could use some changes to keep them fresh. Which is what I’ve outlined below. The units are not priced as that would be arbitrary. I’ve also provided one line summaries for every unit for those allergic to reading, as well as more detailed descriptions. At the end, I comment on the faction design.

Just a quick note on veterency, it should work exactly as it did in the first game, expect perhaps not quite as overpowered.


Headquarters – T0


-------------------------------------------HQ Basic Units-----------------------------------------

Panzer Grenadiers

Summary - Mainline infantry

Renamed obviously. 4-man squad, all Kar98s. Slow repair speed. Slow cap speeds. Excel at long range. These squads would dominate most other early game squads. They also build all tech structures and at the start of the game can build either T1 or T2. At the start of the game they can be upgraded with double Panzerbüchse 39 AT rifles for 60 munitions. Rebirth of a classic.

Kettenkrad

Summary – Capping Vehicle

Starting unit, the Ketten is as classic as Coh gets. Caps territory, has a high cloaked detection range, a long line of sight and can detect mines. The Ketten would have more utility that it did in the first game, as it provides vital line of sight to PE support weapons. Variety of doctrinal abilities.

-----------------------------------HQ Unit that requires T1 Or T2------------------------------

Pak 38

Summary – AT gun

We’re going all out on the classic Coh units. For all intensive purposes is identical to the original Pak 38 but lacks camo straight off the bat. It makes up for this by having a HE rounds ability from the start. For around 20 seconds the Pak fires HE shells, somewhat like the incendiary ammo ability for the MG42. It wouldn't help it against vehicles, and is largely inaccurate vs moving infantry, but its primary use is to force units of of buildings and destroy cover.

------------------------- HQ Unit that requires the Panther Battle Group upgrade--------------

Panther

Summary – It’s a Panther.

The upgrade for the Panther would be ‘Enhanced optics’, the equivalent of the mandatory Pintle machine upgrade for OH and OKW. This upgrade increases accuracy of the main gun. At Vet 2 the Panther gets its pintle.

---------------------------------------------HQ Upgrades-----------------------------------------

Field Craft (100MP 15 Fuel)

Summary – Infantry capping speed upgrade and allows PGs to detect mines while stationary.

Base Healing (100MP 20 Fuel)

Summary – Base healing

Panther Battle Group (100MP 25 Fuel)

Summary – Unlocks Panther in HQ.

Requires either Panzer Jager Kommand Upgrade of Panzer Support Kommand upgrade before it can be researched.


Kreigsbarracks - T1 (100 MP 30 Fuel)


Summary - Unlocks T1 units and Anti-Tank Grenades ability for PGs.

-----------------------------------T1 Units-----------------------------------

Flak 30

Summary – Suppression Tool

First deviation from the Coh formula. This unit would occupy the exact same role as an MG but function slightly differently. 4-man team, 2 man the gun. It would have strong suppression and damage at the cost of long set up times, slower movement speed, slightly narrower arc and be more expensive. It wouldn’t be able to garrison buildings but with a shield it should have Heavy cover everywhere, so the average cover of the unit would work out the same as an MG. It would be cool if it had an ability at vet 1 where it could lock down and target air only. In essence, a spicy substitute for the classic MG.

Sniper

Summary – Sniper

This sniper would have longer range than other snipers (about 5 more range) and have 80% accuracy vs buildings (instead of the usual 50%), but it would have a slower rate of fire and would be unable to camo straight off the bat. This means the unit would excel at dislodging units from buildings, which is fairly important as T2 has most of PEs anti building tools, but it would be easier to kill and less cost effective than other snipers.

250 Halftrack

Summary – Basic Halftrack unit

The exact same as the original PE halftrack. It should be able to be upgraded with either two different upgrades as standard. These include:
- An ambulance upgrade which allows the halftrack to heal outside combat, at the cost of being able to garrison squads.
- a Pak 36 for light AT duties, making it into a mobile T70 counter.

Both upgrades require T3 or T4.

-------------------------------------------T1 Upgrades--------------------------------------------

Field Emplacements (100MP 15 Fuel)

Summary – allows PGs to build basic defences.

The basic defences that PGs would be able to construct include: Barbed Wire, Sandbags, Tank traps, mines and Command posts. Command posts are structures that have a double function of a bunker and a resource cache. You build it on a point locking it down, a unit can be garrisoned inside for cover bonuses and you can upgrade it to either a munitions or fuel cache for a slight manpower cost. This could be made even more interesting if you could garrison Paks, Mortars or Flaks in them making them into AT, mortar or flak emplacements respectively.

G43s (100MP 15 Fuel)

Summary – G43 weapon package unlock.

This gives PGs the option of upgrading with G43s for a munitions cost once unlocked. It improves their long-range firepower by giving them two G43s.


Kampfgruppe Kompanie - T2 (100MP 30 Fuel)


Summary - Unlocks T2 units and Anti-Tank Grenades ability for PGs.

--------------------------------------------------T2 Units--------------------------------------------

GrW 42 Heavy Mortar

Summary - Indirect fire unit

The essential mortar unit. It would have similar performance to the Soviet heavy mortar.

Demolition Squad

Summary – Anti building unit

Building clearing support unit. 1 flamethrower and 3 MP41s as standard. Fragile and expensive so they cannot be massed.

Panzer I

Summary – Light tank.

I don’t know why but I love the Panzer I. Armed with 2 machine guns, this unit would be solid at harassing enemy squads, similar in performance to an M20. Unlike the M20 though it lacks self repair, is slower, lacks mines, bazookas and armoured skirts. This is made up for though by coming out 20 fuel earlier. Once T3 or T4 is built it can upgrade itself with a 20mm flak cannon or a 47mm AT gun, making it better against infantry and light vehicles respectively.

-----------------------------------------------T2 Upgrades-----------------------------------------

Explosive Ordinance (100MP 25 Fuel)

Summary – PGs get Grenades and Demolition Squads can plant demo charges.

The grenade I had in mind was the M39 grenade. Demo Charges should only be able to be placed on buildings but should be identical to Soviet demos in every other respect.

MP44s (100MP 20 Fuel)

Summary – MP44 weapon package unlock.

PGs can upgrade with 4 MP44s, which devastate at close to medium range.


Panzer Jager Kommand - T3 (100MP 30 fuel, requires T1 or T2)


Summary - Unlocks T3 units and double Panzer Schrek upgrade for PGs for 120 Munitions. Once T3 is complete, all current squads with Panzerbüchse 39 AT rifles can then upgrade to double schreks for 60 munitions.

-----------------------------------------------Basic T3 Units---------------------------------------

Infantry Officer

Summary – Buffs infantry within the sector he occupies.

3-man squad, one officer with 2 guards. Grants an accuracy and received accuracy buff to infantry units within his sector.

-----------------------------T3 units that require Panzer Jager Kommand Upgrade---------------------------

Panzer III

Summary – Medium Tank

An Axis faction without the Panzer IV. You would have to be generous with the P3 for it to live up to the other medium tanks in the game. The H variant would be the standard, with armoured skirts and 50mm gun. Strengths of the P3 would be as follows: Fast movement speed, accuracy, relatively cheap cost and relatively early arrival on the field. The weaknesses would be that it would have lower HP than the other mediums and lower damage. The 50mm gun would be just as solid as a puma, but this penetration would be bought at the cost of splash. The base P3 would not necessarily wipe squads as much as it would consistently pick off models. The most effective way using it vs. other tanks would be to slug at long range and retreat when your HP dips, as the P3 would be more accurate and faster, so hit and run tactics like this would be its strong suite. The P3 would also benefit from a 75mm gun upgrade. This increases its splash and damage, but it’s penetration would be drastically reduced. Think HE Sherman. It makes this upgrade very much a strategic choice. The Panzer 3 would have access to the ‘Enhanced optics’, the equivalent of the mandatory Pintle machine upgrade for OH and OKW. This upgrade increases accuracy of the main gun. At vet 2 it would pick a pintle machine gun.

Marder III

Summary – Tank Destroyer

While not often used at high level play in the first game, the Marder was very much a solid tank destroyer. I would keep it the exact same in this game, perhaps more accurate on the move.

---------------------------------------------T3 Upgrades-----------------------------------------

Sprint (100MP 20 Fuel)

Summary – Unlocks Sprint ability for infantry.

It should have fatigue aftereffects and share a timer with AT grenades.

Veteran Sargent (100MP 40 Fuel)

Summary – Allows infantry squads to Vet up faster

Panzer Jager Kommand Upgrade (100 MP X Fuel)

Summary – Unlocks Panzer III, Marder III and Panther Battle Group upgrade.

It should be priced so that, when straight teching to Panzer III, the P3 should arrive around the same time Soviets get their T4 or even a bit before.


Panzer Support Kommand - T4 (100MP 30Fuel, requires T1 or T2)


Summary – Unlocks T4 units and double Panzer Schrek upgrade for PGs for 120 Munitions. Once T4 is complete, all current squads with Panzerbüchse 39 AT rifles can then upgrade to double schreks for 60 munitions.

--------------------------------------------Basic T4 Units------------------------------------------

Panzer Commander

Summary – Grants the vehicle he occupies additional abilities.

The idea of this unit is basically this; it’s a fragile unit that has the health of a sniper. It has no use on the field but can enter vehicles and improves whatever vehicle it occupies. Once you put the unit in a vehicle it can toggle three separate bonuses (Like switching between ammunition for the Sherman). Only one bonus can be active at one time. The three bonuses would be speed, accuracy and reload rate. When speed is on, the unit moves faster. When reload is on, the main gun reloads faster etc. It gains vet from the kills of the vehicle it’s in and as its vet increases the bonuses its confers increase. The vet bonuses stay with the commander though, so you could vet it up on a Panzer I and then hop it into a Panzer III and the bonuses would transfer over. If the vehicle dies while the commander is in the vehicle, the commander should die. Also, your opponent should be able to see that the commander is in the vehicle without having to click on it, making it a visible high value target.

--------------------------T4 Units that require Panzer Support Kommand Upgrade------------------------

Wirbelwind Flakpanzer

Summary – Mobile anti-infantry and anti-air.

As long as it’s better than it was in the first game.

Wespe

Summary – Mobile artillery

Equivalent role of the Panzerwerfer, but cheaper and not as devastating.

------------------------------------------T4 Upgrades---------------------------------------------

Camouflage (100MP 30 Fuel)

Summary – Allows PGs, Flak teams, Mortars, Snipers and Paks to upgrade with camouflage for a munitions cost once unlocked.

The beauty of this upgrade is that it influences different units in difference ways. Paks become the ambush machine they were in the first game. Mortar camouflage would make them more difficult to counter mortar. Flak camouflage would be good for ambushes. Sniper camouflage would be the same as Ost sniper camo. As for PGs, it would be similar to storm trooper camo. The munitions cost should vary between the types of units.

Advanced Repair (100MP 35 Fuel)

Summary – Increases repair speed of Panzer Grenadiers

Panzer Support Kommand Upgrade (100MP X Fuel)

Summary – Unlocks Wirbelwind, Wespe and Panther Battle Group upgrade.

It should be priced so that, when straight teching to a Wirbelwind, it should come out at roughly the same time as an Ostwind.

……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

On the design of the faction

Opening with this faction is identical to the start of the original PE and therefore players would be using their PGs aggressively to harass the opposing player while your Ketten caps important points. Cut off moves would be the norm and in general the PE would be the early game aggressor. A noteworthy aspect of T0 is that it grants you access to number of essential capacities. PGs can upgrade with light AT rifles, as a deterrent to M3 and WC play without any additional tech. Paks and Panthers give you a solid base of AT no matter what teching you decide to go for, especially considering the AT abilities unlocked for PGs as you progress through teching, allowing you to be flexible with your strategies. However, Paks ensure a makeshift anti-building tool no matter what you decide to do, which is important for T1 as it lacks anti-building relative to T2. Finally, Field Craft and Base Healing provide mine clearing and squad heals no matter what.

Both T1 and T2 are designed with distinctive play styles in mind; passive vs. aggressive respectively. The units in T1 are used primarily in a defensive capacity. Flaks rely on units to come into its arc when its set up. Defensive Operations allows you to be build field defences that you use defensively. G43s are best used at long range and stationary, so more passive play. That isn’t to say you can’t use any of these units aggressively, you have the flexibility to play more aggressively if you want to but playing more defensively comes naturally to this Tier. T2 units are distinctly more aggressive. MP44s and grenades are a no brainer, both rely on you to get your PGs in close. The P1 is a harassment vehicle best used on the attack and the mortar complements this by being used to bombard your opponent’s defensive positions. Demolition squads can force your opponent out of their defensive positions and blow them up.

There are clear synergies between the units in each tier. The Sniper/Flak combo is just as solid as the Sniper/MG Combo. Mines from Defensive Operations are a Snipers best friend in the same way that barbed wire is a Flak’s. G43 PGs and Sandbags are a match made in heaven. Demolition Squads and mortars, effectively deny your opponent any use of cover, giving MP44 PGs and P1s a much easier job flanking a position when your opponents units are in the open. Assault Rifles and Grenades are meant to be together. But there are also cross tier synergies between T1 and T2 as well.

Unlike OKW, the side tech choice from T1 to T2 or from T2 to T1 would be a lot more attractive for PE and this is for various reasons. With OKW, often if you go T1 you won’t bother with T2 as they have similar units. The Leig and the Walking Stuka fill the same indirect fire role as each other albeit in different ways and with totally different costs. Likewise, if you have built a Luchs you would never build a Flak halftrack. The tiers feature different play styles, one being infantry focused and the other light vehicles, but once you choose one you would usually stick with it (Unless getting heals after T2).

However, with PE, none of the units are similar and in-fact provide great synergies. MP44 PGs are the best unit for denying flanks on Flaks. Mortars can be placed in Defensive Operations’ Command Posts to make Mortar emplacements. MP44 PGs and Demolition Squads can be placed in Halftracks. Suppression and mortars are a classic combination and P1s can defend any of these support units from infantry.

If you couple this with cheap costs to tech each tier you open up a wealth of varied strategies and builds. Where moving from T1 to T2 with OKW is often too expensive and consequently not viable, PE shouldn’t have this problem. Instead the tiers should be relatively cheap (100MP and 25 Fuel) but the summation of the side tech options and the tier buildings is where the real cost would lie. To unlock everything T1 has would cost 300 MP and 60 Fuel and to unlock everything in T2 would cost 300 MP and 75 Fuel. Alternatively, you could build T1, T2 and G43s for 300 MP and 75 fuel. This design commends itself to a whole host of options and therefore, deeper strategy. Thus, the second reason side teching is attractive for PE is its initial cheaper cost.

What about teching up? In this design the gap between T1/T2 and T3/T4 is actually small. T3 only costs marginally more than T2. But again, it doesn’t give you access to everything it has to offer immediately. It’s conceivable that you would tech T3 early to get either an Infantry Officer or an important upgrade and the advantage this quick tech would grant you would allow you to gain enough resources to unlock the better options of the tier. This is the exact same with T4 and, again, increases strategic diversity.

The choice between T3/T4 is the choice between a heavy anti-vehicle strategy or a heavy anti-infantry strategy. The P3 and Marder is a far more dependable anti-tank line up than the Wirbelwind and Wespe line up. This playstyle would perform much better against tanks. The Wirbelwind and Wespe playstyle however is a dedicated anti-infantry playstyle. If your opponent is relying on elite infantry and support weapons, this tier would shine. Both tiers are supported by the Panther, after you buy the Panther Battle group upgrade, which enables them to thrive. T4 would be simply too risky if they didn’t have this strong tank destroyer to rely on and likewise with T3 as the P3 would get bullied by the stronger allied mediums. Therefore, it is safe to say that the Panther is at the centre of PE late game strategy.

You could say that the Panther overshadows the other tanks in T3 and I would beg to disagree. The P3 while not as good against tanks as the Panther, it would be far better against infantry and much cheaper. It’s very much the same choice you make when building T4 for OKW, except much more pronounced, given the extra tech cost for the Panther. As for Marder and Panther overlap, while true that they would have similar damage and penetration, the Marder would be much cheaper, have a longer range and a faster rate of fire. I would use Marders to fight heavy tanks like the IS-2 and Pershing and I would use Panthers to fight mediums, that would be their respective niches.

But while stating that T3 is the anti-vehicle tier and T4 is the anti-infantry tier, this isn’t the whole picture. While its vehicles excel against tanks, T3’s upgrades improve their infantry’s anti-infantry capabilities substantially. Veteran Sargent will give your infantry a vet advantage over your opponent and Sprint could mean the difference between getting supressed/mortared/naded or not. Couple this with the Infantry Officer and the P3s 75mm cannon upgrade and you have the flexibility to create a solid base of anti-infantry if you decide to do so. Similarly, in T4, you obviously have the Panther for anti-tank, but couple this with the Panzer Commander and Advanced repair and this Panther will perform even better. Not only this, but cloaked Paks and cloaked Schreks are a considerable upgrade, which will make your life even easier versus Tanks. Again, while being Primarily an anti-infantry tier, it has the flexibility to become anti-tank focused.

As for tech paths, T1/T4 would give you a solid base of defensive support weapons and infantry which allows you to comfortably hold out for a Wirbelwind. This would shut down all your opponent’s infantry and then depending on how he reacts to this, either AT guns or Medium tanks, you can follow this up with a Wespe or a Panther respectively. Before bringing on your Wirbelwind, you would invest in double Paks, which could be augmented with camouflage either before or after you get your Panther. Mediums would find it very difficult to dive either a Wespe or a Wirbelwind if you have mines.

Having said this though, T2/T3 would be just as solid. A far more aggressive style, if you pull it off you can rush out a P3 and severely punish your opponent. Sprinting MP44 PGs would be a pain in the ass to deal with, especially if grenades are thrown in the mix and your mortar is hitting their support weapons. Your Infantry Officer would be at the centre of your strategy, allowing you to handily beat your opponent’s infantry, and your vehicles will handle the Tanks.

T2/T4 has its own individual selling points. Cloaked mortars would be very difficult to counter barrage, especially if their own support weapons are being hunted by cloaked MP44 PGs with grenades. You can Vet up your Panzer Commander earlier by hopping it into a Panzer I, especially if it has the 20mm flak upgrade, making it into a particularly potent shock unit.

And finally, T1/T3. This would be the standard PE play because it’s incredibly safe. Whereas a Wirbelwind could easily get caught out by a tank, your P3 would fare a lot better, and with clever flak positioning, it would also be covered against infantry. G43 packing PGs with veteran Sergeant and an infantry officer in support would be brutal, especially if hooked up with sandbags and mines. If your opponent is calling in a heavy tank, invest in a Marder. If he’s trying to overrun you with mediums, a Panther. If heavy infantry are the main source of pain, a P3 with the gun upgrade is your closest option and if support weapons are an issue, side tech to a Wespe or a Mortar. Whatever happens, you’re covered.

The 11 Commanders

Italian Ground Forces

Idea = A general Commander.

1 CP – Italian Ground forces

Five-man squad each with a Carcano M1891 rifle. Can construct sandbags and Barbed wire straight off the bat and can heal nearby squads for 30 munitions when outside of combat. Think of them as akin to Luftwaffe ground forces from the first game.

3 CPs – Butterfly Bombs

Exact same as the first game.

5 CPs – Fiat M13/40

Italian Light tank. Think T70. Requires either T3 or T4 before it can be called in.

8 CPs – Cannone da 90/53

The Italian equivalent to the Flak 88. It was literally modeled after it. Henceforth, this unit can be constructed by Italian Ground Forces and would have a similar performance to the flak 88.

12 CPs – Railway Artillery

Railway artillery was infamous in Italy during WW2 so it seems only just that an Italian Commander Features Railway Artillery. It would be identical to OST Railway Arty.

Discussion – Unlike the rest of the commanders that follow, which are situation specific and have a set strategy, this commander is purposely generic. It has no underlying strategy behind it and can be used with success in a variety of situations. You may have noticed that it has a lot in common with Luftwaffe Ground Forces from the original PE, which is the point, as the commander is modelled after that doctrine.

It would be a wise decision to get at least one squad of Italian Ground Forces in the early game although relying on them entirely would be asking for trouble as they can’t repair, don’t have snares and scale poorly long term. However, they complement PGs well with their tech-less healing and Sandbags. The M13 provides an essential role within the PE, as the base faction itself lacks mid game light vehicles like the T70, Stuart, Luchs or Puma. This unit fills this gap and should have the same performance as a T70. Butterfly bombs are obvious infantry area denial and the C90 (as I like to call it) works just like the Flak 88 denying a large area of the map from vehicles but is itself vulnerable to indirect and infantry. Finally, a strong off map like railway to round out the commander.

Shock and Awe

Idea = Overwhelming positions.

1 CPs Hungarian Infantry

A flimsy 6-man squad with two 35M rifles and four Danuvia 39M submachine guns. The unit is primarily used as a flanking and harassment squad and henceforth has a binoculars upgrade for 30 munitions, which increases their line of sight when stationary, allowing them to scout out a position and make the best approach. They would also have an ability to double their capture speed for a short duration. They’re decent at short range and in the early game they should beat out Infantry sections at point blank and give Rifles run for their money. But lacking upgrades they would be rapidly outclassed, which is fine, as being mainline infantry is not their purpose. Primarily they’re used to cap territory and get behind your opponent’s support weapons. Direct confrontation is not their specialty, maps like Arnhem Checkpoint would be ideal for them, as while most of the combat is in the centre of the map, they can cap around the sides relatively undisturbed, and left to do so will rapidly capture swaths of territory.

3 CPs Blitzkreig

Exactly like the ability of the same name from the first game. Vehicles gain heavy crush, increased fire rate and speed while infantry sprint to keep pace.

8 CPs Zrinyi II

Hungarian Assault howitzer. Same kind of cannon and lethality as a Bulldozer Sherman but with a fixed turret, less armour and less health. Requires either Panzer Jager Kommand upgrade or Panzer Support Kommand upgrade to be called in.

9 CPs Off Map Combat Group

An expensive ability, costing around 800 Manpower and 120 fuel, but allows you to immediately call in two Hungarian 41M Turán II medium tanks and 2 squads of Hungarian Infantry. This ability is primarily used in those big all in engagements as the clean-up force you call in to secure the VP, dive weakened tanks and capture decrewed support weapons. Turáns would have similar performance to Panzer IIIs.

10 CPs Sector Assault

Straight from OKW. It fits perfectly with this commander and is not commonly used as it is. Assault artillery would also work well with this commander.

Discussion – This commander is built around the all-in play. The checkmate. The final kick in the balls that leaves your opponent hunched over on the ground groaning and wondering where it all went wrong.

You’d ideally pick this doctrine when faced with a stalemate, where the game started out mobile and rapid but has slowly has been grinding down into a WW1 type scenario with lots of support weapons. You pick this to break the stalemate and to overwhelm your opponent in one swoop, crushing their army to the point where they won’t be able to get back in the game. You rely on a multipronged attack with sector assault, tanks, supporting infantry and Blitzkreig. Your sprinting infantry flank support weapons, your fast firing Zrinyi annihilates infantry left, right and centre, all the while your opponent is being bombed and strafed. This combination of raw firepower and speed will break the back of your opponent’s army. You’ll inevitably take losses, but no matter, as you replace them instantly with an Off-map combat group, where the Turáns dive in the base to find that critically wounded IS2 and your Hungarian infantry snatch up the VPs for a triple cap, while your opponent is pre-occupied.

Urban Warfare

Idea = Fighting in Urban areas

1 CP Finnish Tank hunters

5-man squad, 3 with M/91 Mosin Nagent rifles and 2 with Lahti L-39 AT rifles. They can also place Panssarimiina m/36 AT mines. Very early AT squad, ideally used to shut down light vehicle play. Particularly potent when placed in buildings as light vehicles would have a tough time dislodging them.

2 CPs Street fighting

Allows PGs to demolish houses for 50 munitions and to destroy cover. Building Demolish functions like this; PGs enter the house, click the demolish ability in their inventory and after 5 seconds they leave the building and it instantly collapses. Destroy cover is exactly like Destroy cover for Brits. Street fighting also unlocks Flame thrower upgrades for the P1 and P3 as well as Incendiary nades for PGs and a Flame mortar round for the heavy mortar.

6 CPs BT-42

One of the few Finnish tanks in the war. While having a strong gun, with a similar performance to a Bulldozer Sherman at a relatively early stage in the game, its armour and health would be poor. Light tanks, like the Stuart and T70, would be competent at taking this unit out and the go to counter when it rolls onto the field. T-34s would crush it easily. It’s ideally used against buildings, infantry and support weapons with sufficient back up from infantry and AT in the mid game. It requires T3 or T4 to be called in.

8 CPs Firestorm

Just like it was in the first game.

12 CPs V1

Just like it was in the first game.

Discussion – Like many PE commanders, Urban is situation specific. Maps like Crossing in the Woods would not be its forte, while Semois is ideal. Finnish troops are a nice unit to have early in the game, as they shut down light vehicle play and are a deterrent to follow up light tank play. When placed in buildings, they create a ‘no go zone’ for the Stuart or AEC, which is exactly what you want for the BT-42. Tank hunters in conjunction with a BT-42 would be a lethal combination, as Tank Hunters would prevent light tank dives, the most convenient counter to the tank. This forces the player to use AT infantry and AT guns against the BT-42 which is far from ideal because:

- In Urban areas, AT guns are notoriously bad.
- The BT-42 specialises in killing infantry.

This reinforces Urban Warfare’s dominance on maps with lots of buildings. But if this wasn’t enough, Street Fighting gives yours troops all kinds of options in Urban areas. As with OKW, incendiary nades are great for denying building, and the same could be said for flame mortar rounds, P1 flame thrower and P3 flame thrower. Demolish can permanently deny a building to your opponent, which would be brutal on maps like Semois, as you could destroy the buildings on their cut-off, opening up their defensive position from an early stage in the game. Urban is primarily an Early to Mid-game commander, but if the game does drag out to the late game, you have two infamous off maps to rely on.

Tank Destroyer Tactics

Idea = Killing Tanks

2 CPs Signal Relay

Just like it is for OKW

3 CPs AP Rounds

Rather than being a passive buff like it was before, I’d make it into ability that units can activate that increases their penetration. Rather like the OKW ability minus the damage increase. The units that can use this ability would be the Pak38, the Panzer I, the Halftrack when upgraded with an AT gun, the Panzer III, the Marder, the Hetzer, the Panther and the Jagdpanther.

8 CPs Hetzer

Just like it was in the first game. Requires either Panzer Jager Kommand upgrade or Panzer Support Kommand upgrade before it can be called in.

12 CPs Panzer Knackers

Just like it was in the first game.

14 CPs Jagdpanther

Just like it was in the first game. Requires Panzer Jager Kommand upgrade, Panzer Support Kommand upgrade and Panther Battlegroup Upgrade before it can be called in.

Discussion – TD is almost identical to what it was in the first game, except now it has a powerful off map as well. Easily the strongest late game commander the PE has to offer, it is only useful against tanks, leaving you to rely on your core army to handle infantry.

While this commander is largely self-explanatory, I’d like to point out some of the nuanced aspects of the doctrine that are easily overlooked. Firstly, that Pak38s have AP rounds, which is a nice ability as the Pak struggles against even medium tanks without its first strike bonus. This gives you the flexibility to rely more heavily on Paks without having to tech camouflage. Secondly, P1 armour piercing rounds would be similar to the MG42’s AP round ability. You wouldn’t be able to straight up win against the M15 or the T70 but it gives you the option of making dives with your P1 on your opponent’s wounded vehicles. When the P1 is upgraded to the Panzerjager I it gets a normal AP rounds ability, which should help it penetrate mediums. The Hetzer is also a noteworthy aspect of this commander, as it allows you to go T4 and have a Tank destroyer available without any further teching. T4 would be an ideal complement to TD as it combines dedicated anti-infantry with dedicated anti-tank, covering all bases.

Scorched Earth

Idea = Area denial

Booby Traps

Same as it was in the first game. It would also be nice if you could booby trap dropped support weapons and dropped infantry weapons, so when captures the gun blows up and kills max 2 models.

2 CPs Street Fighting

Exactly as above.

3 CPs Scorched Earth

Exactly as it was in the first game.

5 CPs Nebelwerfer

Exactly as it was in the first game. Requires either T3 or T4 to be called in.

8 CPs Firestorm

Exactly as it was in the first game.

Discussion - I loved Scorched Earth. It was such a skilful commander, you had to be on the ball when planting booby traps and avoiding them, it really increased the intensity of the game.

You pick Scorched Earth when you want to wear your opponent down. The cut-off move is the centre piece of this strategy, the poisonous snake bite that places your opponent in an uncomfortable position. Do they try take back their Cut-off while under the fire of incendiary nades, flame mortar barrages, Nebelwerfer barrages and Fire storms or do they advance into your territory, only to be met with booby traps and your flamethrower toting units. Fire everywhere, an Inferno of sorts, the longer they wait, the greater the resource disparity becomes, and when they finally get their resources back, you’re in a better position to make another cut-off move. The cycle repeats, in a manner that would make Dracula proud, as you bleed your opponent of resources, when finally the resource disparity is so great, your opponent surrenders, with no hope of getting back in the game.

Logistics Strategy

Idea = Field presence

1 CP Reserves

For 15 seconds, your infantry squads reinforce twice as fast and new units take half as long to build, in exchange for 35 munitions. The recharge timer should be at least 90 seconds, to prevent players from spamming it with a Halftrack on the field.

3 CPs SDKFZ 232

Armoured car, armed with a 20mm cannon and an MG42. Think of the middle ground between a Luchs and a 222. It has a Radio antenna upgrade for 50 munitions. When purchased, you can lock the vehicle down, converting it into a forward retreat point. It can pack up again if needs be and set down elsewhere. Requires either T3 or T4 to be called in.

3 CPs Medical Supplies

Infantry slowly heal themselves outside of combat and in friendly territory, similar to Wehrmacht infantry vet 1 in the original coh.

3 CPs Reinforcements

A new upgrade in the HQ is unlocked. Costing 100 MP and 25 Fuel, PGs squad sizes are increased from 4 to 5.

8 CPs Manpower Blitz

Exactly as it was in the first game.

Discussion – Logistics is for the methodical, patient player. There’s no shock unit in this commander, you won’t have a KV-8 roll onto the field and completely route your opponent. There’s no Strafing run, to bring about instant retreats. What this commander offers you is subtler.

This commander is for those who plan to slowly creep up to their opponent’s base, one territory at a time. Increased squad sizes allows your infantry to stay on the field for longer, compounded by the fact that medical supplies allows them to heal when outside of combat. When they eventually are forced to retreat, Reserves can get them back onto the field faster. The 232, while potent in its own right as an armoured car, is primarily to serve as a forward retreat point. When coupled with a Halftrack, your units won’t even have to leave the battlefield. With all this combined, your opponent will find it nearly impossible to remove your forces from your territory, and with the resource advantage that will confer to you, they will gradually struggle to hold onto their own territory. With Manpower Blitz, you can utilize your large army to bully your opponent off the field, as true Logistics players will only be content when their adversary is trapped inside their base.

Improvisation Tactics

Idea = Flexibility

2 CPs Advanced Equipment

Allows you to call in the MG81 heavy machine gun when either T1 or T2 is constructed. In comparison to the MG42, it should have outstanding suppression (its most notable quality) and decent damage but long pack up and reload times. Advanced Equipment also allows PGs to upgrade with multiple weapon packages and switch between them, in the same way the Sherman can switch between ammunition. You could have a squad with G43s and Panzerschreks, giving the player the option of deciding what he wants that squad to use in that engagement. Each additional weapon package will cost exactly what it would cost for every other commander, meaning to fully upgrade your squad would cost 265 munitions. When switching between packages it should take 12 seconds after you click before the switch occurs, to prevent people from switching instantaneously between MP44s and Schreks the moment a light vehicle shows up.

3 CPs Panzer Refit

Grants you the options of;
- Upgrading your Halftrack with a 75mm low velocity cannon for 75 munitions after T3 or T4 is constructed
- Upgrading your P1 with a Sig 33 artillery howitzer for 100 munitions after either the Panzer Jager Kommand upgrade or the Panzer Support Kommand Upgrade is researched.
- Upgrading the P3 with a Sig 33 artilery howitzer for 100 munitions or into Command tank for 50 munitions.

The 75mm low velocity gun for the HT would be similar to the Stug E main armament and transform the unit into a competent anti infantry vehicle. The howitzer upgrade converts the P1 into the Bison I, a mobile artillery unit. The howitzer upgrade converts the P3 into assault gun, like the Brumbar except not as well armoured or with as much health. The Command tank upgrade increases the fire rate of nearby tanks.

6 CPs Hotchkiss

French light tank. Similar enough to how it was in the first game, with an upgrade to increase its main gun penetration for 50 munitions and an upgrade to give it 4 stuka rockets for 100 munitions. Requires either T3 or T4 to be called in.

8 CPs Stug IV

Exact same as it was in the first game. Requires either Panzer Jager Kommand upgrade or Panzer Support Kommand upgrade before it can be called in.

10 CPs 200mm Rocket Arty

Exact same as it was in the first game.

Discussion – This commander is for the player who likes to shock their opponent. PE is already a flexible faction as it is but this commander offers the player a heap of options to the point where your strategy is clouded in smoke, the player can’t grasp your thinking and has no idea what you’re going to come out with next.

The MG81 allows you to go T2 tech while still having suppression. The 75mm Low velocity gun allows you to get a potent infantry killing light vehicle from T1 without having to go T2, something that would undoubtedly be a nasty surprise. The P1 upgrade allows you to go T3 and still have mobile artillery without having to tech T4. The P3 howitzer upgrade allows you to field a strong anti-infantry tank without looking to the Wirbelwind. Stug IV’s can supplement a T4 build, giving you a reliable tank destroyer without any more additional teching. The Hotchkiss itself is the essence of this commander, being rocket artillery and light tank at the same time. The viable strategies available to you multiply the moment you pick this commander; your opponent is forced to react to you out of sheer bewilderment.

Being able to switch between weapon packages for your PGs means you can adapt your infantry to any situation, presuming you have the munitions to back it up. Long-range, Short-range, anti-tank, whatever, it doesn’t matter, you can pull anything out of the bag. Your adversary will never be able to weigh up your unit mix as it changes all the time. Like trying to catch smoke.

Preservation Strategy

Idea = Keeping units alive

1 CPs Smoke Retreat

When your units retreat, they drop smoke to cover their withdrawal, identical to the air landing officer.

2 CPs Attrition

Activated for 60 munitions, your adversary’s units move slower in your territory for 30 seconds.

3 CPs Infantry Protection

Adds two upgrades to teching. In the Panzer Jager Kommand, a Body Armour upgrade is added costing 100MP and 20 Fuel and in the Panzer Support Kommand a Flak Jackets upgrade is added costing 100MP and 20 fuel.

Body Armour once researched allows PGs and support weapons to upgrade with Body Armour for 75 munitions and 50 Munitions respectively. Once equipped it reduces damage taken from small arms by 25% but the squad can no longer sprint, repair, build or equip camouflage. With support weapons their pack up and set up times are increased by 1 second.

Flak Jackets once researched allows PGs and support weapons to upgrade with Flak Jackets for 75 munitions and 50 Munitions respectively. Once equipped it reduces damage taken from ballistic damage by 25% but the squad can no longer sprint, repair, build or equip camouflage. With support weapons their pack up and set up times are increased by 1 second.

4 CPs Zimmermit Paint

Allows vehicles to equip anti magnetic Zimmerit paint for 50 munitions, reducing the damage taken from handheld AT by 50%. When vehicles are outside of combat, stationary and in friendly territory they automatically self-repair at a slow rate.

4 CPs Sector Smoke

Covers a whole sector in smoke for 40 munitions, just like the end of Assault Arty. Really good for mass retreats or saving a crippled tank from dying.

Discussion – One of the most important aspects of Coh is keeping your units alive, so naturally, there’s a commander that allows you to do just that. Smoke retreat in many cases will save your squad getting wiped at the last minute so they can live to fight another day. Flak Jackets and Body Armour increase the resilience of the squad, but at the cost of other strategic possibilities. Each is an alternative between competing upgrades such as Sprint, Camouflage, Advanced Repair and Field Emplacements. It’s a macro decision you must make. Zimmerit Paint extends this survivability to Vehicles by reducing the potency of handheld AT and Attrition will save your squads from diving vehicles, as they are forced to slow down in your territory. Sector smoke is a versatile ability, allowing you to save vehicles and infantry alike from getting wiped.

Repair and Recovery Tactics

Idea = Recovering Losses

0 CPs Salvage

Same as with OKW.

1 CPs Field medics

PGs can build Med bunkers, which function in the same manner as in the first game. Can also reinforce and have double the health of OST bunkers. PGs also get a field dressing ability. When lacking a member in the squad they can target a dying, but not dead, German soldier on the ground. This soldier then reinforces the squad. 5 munitions per member revived.

3 CPs Berge Tiger

Exact same as it was in the first game, requires either T3 or T4 to be called in.

3 CPs Recoup Losses

Exact same as it is with OKW.

10 CPs Axis War Machine

Same as the ‘Allied War Machine’ ability in the first game, except for Axis.

Discussion – Players who like Chess would enjoy this commander as it’s all about making profitable trades to ‘get ahead in material’. With Salvage this is obvious, losing your early P1 is not as punishing, as given the opportunity you can recover some of the resources you invested in it. It’s the same idea with field dressing, casualties can be recovered for a minor munitions cost, saving your vital manpower. You can plunge yourself into those messy early engagements knowing that even if you both suffer the same amount of losses, it will cost them more. Medics extend this, as any casualties not revived will be taken back to the bunker to be formed into a ‘free’ squad. Finally, Recoup Losses compounds this even further, potentially allowing you to ‘cash in’ twice on each infantry casualty within a short duration. Henceforth you’ll be seeking those engagements, those manpower trades, the bloodbaths, knowing that if you force his units off you can salvage the aftermath.
The Berge tiger broadens this Philosophy to Vehicles. Any losses sustained by your adversary in taking out a vehicle that you later revive is an excellent trade for you. Even if they fail to destroy the vehicle, your Berge will repair it up nice and fast so it can continue to inflict more bleed. Finally, Axis War machine is the epitome of this strategy, as if you manage to take out an IS-2 at the ‘loss’ of a Panther, you will feel the same satisfaction as you would when trading a Pawn for a Queen.

Stronghold Tactics

Idea = Defences in depth

1 CPs Fortified Caches

Command posts when upgraded to either a munitions or fuel cache are equipped with a Flak38, to protect against infantry, but can no longer garrison squads.

2 CPs Bunkers

PGs can now build concrete bunkers. They have twice the health of OST bunkers, can reinforce nearby squads and can be equipped with either an MG42, Medics or Mechanics (All functioning in the same way as they did in the first game). Each upgrade costs 50 munitions.

3 CPs Registered Artillery

Exactly the same as the first game.

3 CPs Gibirgsjager

Four-man squad with Kar98 rifles. These mountain troops would be solid at long range. Can be upgraded with either G43s for 45 munitions or double MG34s for 120 munitions. They’re the only squad in PE with LMGs. Can throw smoke grenades.

8 CPs Panthersturm

Built by PGs. The Panthersturm would be a very tanky AT emplacement kinda like the 17 Pounder. This would be bought at the cost of shorter range and lower damage. The line up of axis AT emplacements would look like this:

The C90 (the Italian Flak88) would be the most dangerous, doing high damage, automatically turns to find new targets and can shoot down planes. It would also be the most fragile, being easily decrewed.

The Pak43 would be just as dangerous as the C90, but it must be manually turned by the player and cannot shoot down planes. However, its more tanky than the C90.

Finally, the Panthersturm would do less damage and have less range than the C90 and Pak43 (with the same damage and range as a Panther) but it shouldn’t be able to be decrewed and can tank indirect a lot more effectively.

Discussion – Very reminiscent of Defensive from Coh1, it has some of the spirit of the old doctrine. A classic defensive commander, Fortified Caches benefit the player not only by keeping their innermost points secure from harassment, but also make it more difficult for infantry to flank your frontline troops and finally they extend the life of your caches, netting you bonus resources. Bunkers give you a solid foothold on the map and combined with Panthersturms, you can construct a powerful fortress from which you can safely launch your operations. Registered artillery can repulse all sieges on your defensive positions and Gibirgsjager can pick away at enemy squads from the safety of your fortifications.

Ranged Warfare

Idea = Long range combat

1 CP – Battlefield Awareness

PGs can throw smoke grenades. Can also upgrade PGs, Flaks, Paks, Snipers, Infantry officers and Demolition Squads with binoculars for 30 munitions. When upgraded, it increases their line of sight when stationary.

3 CPs – Gibirgsjager

Four-man squad with Kar98 rifles. These mountain troops would be solid at long range. Can be upgraded with either G43s for 45 munitions or double MG34s for 120 munitions. They’re the only squad in PE with LMGs. Can use smoke grenades and can also be upgraded with binoculars.

3 CPs – Mountain Gun

7.5 cm Gebirgsgeschütz 36. Think of it like an Axis Pack Howitzer. Can also fire smoke shells. Requires either T3 or T4 before it can be called in.

10 CPs 200mm Rocket Artillery

Same as in the first game.

11 CPs Nashorn

The Nashorn is a heavy tank destroyer, equipped with an 88mm gun. Think of it as having the same firepower as an elephant but with much worse armour and health. Requires Panther Battlegroup research before it can be called in.

Discussion – This commander would be instant meta. Coh2 is very ‘long-range’ biased, with its focus on machine gun toting infantry squads and devastating long range heavy tank destroyers, this commander would fit right in. Smoke grenades allow you to control when and where you want to engage the enemy at range and Binoculars allows you to utilize your ranged units to their full potential. Gibirgsjager, Mountain guns and Nashorns are classic long range units allowing you to dominate in infantry, indirect and tank engagements. The commander compliments T1 play extremely well, as Binoculars and Mountain Guns give you a lot of what you would get with T2 and augment several your T1 units. Finally, a powerful off-map to round out the commander.


On the Panzer Elite Commanders

With OKW, OST etc you have commanders with a random assortment of abilities, most of which don’t work well in conjunction with one another. The titles are usually bland, not really meaning anything. You could easily swap ‘Guard Rifle Combined Arms’ and ‘Guard Motor Co-ordination’ and not notice the difference. PE commanders are different however, their abilities are arranged around a central idea or strategy. It discourages picking commanders just because they have the most powerful call-ins or abilities but instead asks the player to decide on what kind of playstyle they want to adopt. The different playstyles vary dramatically, from brutally aggressive Shock and Awe to static and defensive Stronghold tactics, from vehicle focused TD to infantry exclusive Scorched Earth, and everything in-between.

You may notice that most these commanders are mid-game focused. 4/10 offer the player light vehicles (Fiat M13/40, BT-42, Hotchkiss, SDKFZ 232) which directly complements the core faction, whose main gap is mid-game light vehicles. A majority of their abilities such as Reinforcements, Medical Supplies, Berge Tiger, Nebelwerfer, Panzer refit etc. are available between 3 and 6 CPs which usually coincides with the Mid-game. This serves to round out the faction, giving them a complete presentation with a great deal of mid game strategic diversity. I included non-German powers within doctrines when they added to the theme of the commander.

Overall the commanders interlock nicely with the faction itself, many of the units in the base faction being influenced by your commander choice. Several call-ins require levels of tech, so that you can’t replace core faction teching with cheesy call-in reliant strategies. The commanders augment rather than replace the base faction, increasing strategic diversity rather than diminishing it.

In Conclusion

This core design is fully comprehensive. It satisfies all constraints and has plenty of Coh 1 nostalgia. The main selling point for this faction is its strategic diversity. This faction has a great deal of diversity, with several complete and varied strategies. On top of this, all the units used, aside from the Panther and the Sniper, are entirely new to Coh2. It feels fresh and new while at the same time being the spiritual successor to the original PE.

However, this design is an ideal, and like many ideals, it is unlikely to happen. The possibility of a third axis faction itself is doubtful. While it may make sense for them to release an Axis faction to a player base with a habit of Axis favouritism, and while the game doesn’t feel complete without its 6th faction, you can never be quite sure of Relic’s situation. Perhaps they do want to release the 6th faction but Sega doesn’t deem it a priority or a profitable venture. Perhaps there is no enthusiasm for another Coh2 faction among the developers. We can only speculate.

There’s always the possibility however, somewhere down the line, of there being an unexpected announcement. Its ideas like these that might influence a design, maybe not in Coh2 but perhaps in Coh3. You just never know. Relic time and time again has shown its willingness to listen to the community, which is something to be respected and admired. And so, I can only encourage you to share your ideas, especially if you like brainstorming for the sake of brainstorming.

And you never know…

I was about to piss and moan about the 100th faction thread. But this is a way too interesting read. Cheers!

J A P A N

J A P A N

I agree, Axis need fraction with six man infantry squad. If Japan is not realizable, then Italy.
But this is only a dream, we know perfectly well the third Axis faction will not be.

Great ideas, worked out pretty well I must say. I like it! My following statements are not aimed at you, I mean no disrespect.

However, I don't think this game, let alone Relic, can handle 5 factions, let alone 6. So I have a solution too!

New faction ideas, to the garbage can they go!

I'd rather have no new faction than another German faction. Besides, if you're cheating the history enough to make PIs and PIIIs viable in 1945 then you can cheat the history enough to make Japan or Italy work.

On the topic at hand: You're giving none-mechanized units to a mechanized Army which makes absolutely no sense.

PE cannot be properly represented in this game because it's units are already shared by the 2 other Armies present.

The best option would be not the early war Africa Korps which would be fighting 1944 Armies with 1941/42 units but a later war German-Italian Army that would be able to represent better both Armies at the time with mixed equipment and new vehicles to the game, like the feared 88 FlaK gun, Italian Assault guns, German officers, Italian men, German weapons and so forth, basically Italian manpower, German equipment and officers.

However I do like the idea of the PE's veterancy making a return, I really miss that.

Nothing is missing. There won't be new expansion luckily. DoW3 will have even worse optimization than CoH2 #confirmed .

There is an extra fifth faction, not a missing 6th.

There is an extra fifth faction, not a missing 6th.

Relic advertised the game as a WW2 platformer, and both the British and Italians did enough during the war to be included into the game.

Nothing is missing. There won't be new expansion luckily. DoW3 will have even worse optimization than CoH2 #confirmed .

nope, because of different engine and no THQ bancruptcy


now stop talking, get a playercard and profile pic pls

We need Japan and We need sooooo many Japanese light tanks.
1 Sherman VS 12 Chi-Ha
I wanna watch this match Kappa

I feel like the design isn't too bad, but there's waaaaay too many bonuses and sidetech available. Some of them should just be bonuses for teching as with the existing Axis factions, like with weapon upgrades. Some of it just seems like feature-creep overkill, eg. stock vehicle officer and non-doc cloak upgrade. Sidetech in general also just doesn't work as well with CoH2 being about rushing tech rather than sideteching.

Other than that though, the idea's not half bad. I'd scrap the Panther and P1 though, too many panthers as is and P1 is really out of place. P1 could be replaced with 232s or 221s, not sure what to give as a decent brawler though, not that I think they'd need one with solid design.

nope, because of different engine and no THQ bancruptcy

I have seen gameplay from some event which relic was streaming(100% they had some top-notch rigs) and sometimes it was just slide show, it wasn't fluent even with slow action - really bad FPS.

Another faction would ruin balance even more in CoH2. I don't get why you would like to ruin this game even more.

I was about to piss and moan about the 100th faction thread. But this is a way too interesting read. Cheers!

Thanks man. I wanted to present it better but the forum tools are very limiting. No increased font sizes? No easy way of adding images? Seriously?

I have seen gameplay from some event which relic was streaming(100% they had some top-notch rigs) and sometimes it was just slide show, it wasn't fluent even with slow action - really bad FPS.

Another faction would ruin balance even more in CoH2. I don't get why you would like to ruin this game even more.

Dude, balance does not exist. There will always be unhappy. But the new content (factions, commanders) allows attract people to the game.

This game is old plus it is not classic RTS(AoE2, SC2 - niche) - so it is super niche. It won't attract anyone new. Look who is working on next patch to CoH2, why it takes so long and then guess if there is any possibility for next expansion(luckily - there is not).

On the question of why Trump was elected: Because there are more sensible people that are sick and fucking tired of the left bullshit, the silent majority as we are called.

On the topic at hand: You're giving none-mechanized units to a mechanized Army which makes absolutely no sense.

PE cannot be properly represented in this game because it's units are already shared by the 2 other Armies present.

The best option would be not the early war Africa Korps which would be fighting 1944 Armies with 1941/42 units but a later war German-Italian Army that would be able to represent better both Armies at the time with mixed equipment and new vehicles to the game, like the feared 88 FlaK gun, Italian Assault guns, German officers, Italian men, German weapons and so forth, basically Italian manpower, German equipment and officers.

However I do like the idea of the PE's veterancy making a return, I really miss that.

8 vehicles and 9 infantry based units seems like a good mix to me, at least from a gameplay perspective. Half the problem with the original PE was that it had too many useless vehicles (like the munitions HT, Vamp, Scout car etc) and not enough support weapons. I have painful memories. I don't mind a little historical inaccuracy if it means better gameplay.

I don't mind a bit of Italian mix, but like I said, I think the core faction should be German and the doctrines should feature the Italians. I actually drew up some Italian doctrines but didn't add them in because the Post was long enough as it was.

I feel like the design isn't too bad, but there's waaaaay too many bonuses and sidetech available. Some of them should just be bonuses for teching as with the existing Axis factions, like with weapon upgrades. Some of it just seems like feature-creep overkill, eg. stock vehicle officer and non-doc cloak upgrade. Sidetech in general also just doesn't work as well with CoH2 being about rushing tech rather than sideteching.

Other than that though, the idea's not half bad. I'd scrap the Panther and P1 though, too many panthers as is and P1 is really out of place. P1 could be replaced with 232s or 221s, not sure what to give as a decent brawler though, not that I think they'd need one with solid design.

Yeah but I think that's the point, right? It about getting back to what the old Coh was like. The original PE had sooo many side tech options. US and Wehr as well. Coh2 simplified things. In the core factions (excluding the doctrines) there's very little strategic diversity. You don't have to make the choice between strong infantry or tanks as you did with the Original Wehr because with Ost you get it all as a package deal. US is probably the best example, originally to get great infantry you had to get Bars and nades which required you to invest a substantial sum of resources. You got outstanding infantry but it limited your ability to get light vehicles, tanks etc. But with the USF, bars and nade's cost is negligible so there's no trade off. You can easily get both. So there's no reward or punishment for making good decisions because there is no decision, get everything. With this design it goes back to the original. You have to choose between a number of competing upgrades/units (and therefore strategies) and you win or loose depending how good your decisions are (including micro obviously). Is that not what a strategy game is all about?

As for feature creep, I wouldn't be so sure about that. The Panzer Commander and the Flak team are the only units that are in anyway different from the Coh unit design, and not even drastically so.

I agree with the Panther, but like you said, they're really is no substitute for it. I thought about putting the Tiger in its place but i fear that would be overpowered. But there's so many new units as it is that I wasn't too bothered about another Panther.

And finally, I think the P1 suits this tier perfectly. A 232 in that tier would be too strong for the time it comes out and the upgrades or the P1, again, add strategic diversity. Not to mention potential upgrades you could add via doctrines like flamethrowers or SIG 33 artillery pieces. Yes its not historically accurate, but its better gameplay.

Japan doesn't fit into CoH2. It'd be much better as a Pacific campaign for CoH. I've always been a proponent of a CoH based on the pacific side, with Japan, US Marines, & Australia.

IMO for CoH2, if anything, it'd need to be Italy for the European campaigns.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Italian_Army_equipment_in_World_War_II