The Churchill could do with a buff.

While I don't agree it should become a King Tiger, it could do with some sort of a buff so that getting the tank, and therefore teching Anvil, is a more viable option and makes Hammer less of a 'no brainer'. For example it could do with more armour then the standard medium tank (especially since the Comet has more armour the tank that defined armoured protection) with maybe a bit less health (down to King Tiger levels). Because right now it's nothing more than a almost-defenceless meat shield because it's timing is wrong for it's stats. You got a Churchill? I got a Panther, that'll pen it almost every time.

Or/and specialise the tank in some way. It's AI could be buffed. Therefore it can defend the AT fireflies from infantry assaults. Because right now it is bad at everything and an incomparable 'no' when teching up in the British late game. It's only real plus is putting the command vehicle on it.

For those viewing this thread for the first time, please scroll down past anything posted by the user Latch. They add nothing to the discussion and are just flaming. Once you get past him, the discussion really begins.

It's only real plus is putting the command vehicle on it.

I know you only play against the AI but even then, you put the command vehicle ability on the cromwell? That's one way to get it killed, fast.

Just give it a slight armour buff, that's all it needs, it's AI is on par with the cromwell not to mention the nuke nade or the crew gunners at vet 1(?)... Don't forget to link back to steam forums and bitch about .org the next chance you get! Always enjoy reading those.

I know you only play against the AI but even then, you put the command vehicle ability on the cromwell? That's one way to get it killed, fast.

Isn't it the churchil that the thread is about?

Isn't it the churchil that the thread is about?

It is. I assume it's a miss type due to this guy's pathetic attempt to insult me. The Churchill is good as a command vehicle because you are crippling an already not very good vehicle. It can take the heat better then the other vehicles anyway because of it's high health pool. Stick it next to a 17Iber or a firefly and the enemy won't know what to attack, a big target that buffs everything around it, or a big target that has been buffed and destroys everything.

Isn't it the churchil that the thread is about?

Aye, typo with thinking about how the churchills damage is similar to a cromwells

It is. I assume it's a miss type due to this guy's pathetic attempt to insult me. The Churchill is good as a command vehicle because you are crippling an already not very good vehicle. It can take the heat better then the other vehicles anyway.

No, no its not. If you think the Churchill is THAT bad that you give it a death wish, you need to learn how to use it. Start with the croc, I can keep that alive despite it being easier to kill than a vanilla variant and being used much more aggressively.

Oh, it wasn't an insult, you do play against the AI, you told me that in a steam thread, you also always link back to .org and insult it, like, you know this JUST NOW?

http://steamcommunity.com/app/231430/discussions/0/144513248280832132/#c144513524085701778

Hardly an insult, least a pathetic one when it's true

Or here talking about this very post:

http://steamcommunity.com/app/231430/discussions/0/144513248280832132/?ctp=6#c144513524085502163

So would you kindly, get a thicker skin. If you want to give it you have to learn to take it.

Aye, typo with thinking about how the churchills damage is similar to a cromwells



No, no its not. If you think the Churchill is THAT bad that you give it a death wish, you need to learn how to use it. Start with the croc, I can keep that alive despite it being easier to kill than a vanilla variant and being used much more aggressively.

Oh, it wasn't an insult, you do play against the AI, you told me that in a steam thread, you also always link back to .org and insult it, like, you know this JUST NOW?

http://steamcommunity.com/app/231430/discussions/0/144513248280832132/#c144513524085701778

Hardly an insult, least a pathetic one when it's true

I'm not talking about the Crocodile, we're talking about the standard Churchill. The Crocodile is a great vehicle, the standard Churchill is not.
The fact you keep trying to incite something after a thread from last year shows how petty you are, because up until this point I forgot who you are.
Stick to the topic, not to me. And try to stop proving my point.

I didn't make this thread for me. I personally have no problem with it. The problem is that everyone else on the Steam forums doesn't like it. If you bothered to read that discussion, you'll see that I was not the one who started complaining about the Churchill, in fact, you'll see me say it's good (though not Comet good). I just made this thread to see if the powers that be think about it, because no one else will. Everytime someone complains about the Churchill, the 25Ibers or the gliders being shit on those forums, I attempt to formulate strategies to make them work. Churchill? Make it command vehicle, build a 17 pounder near it or build a firefly (though an AVRE would probably fare better). 25 Pounders? I admit, they might be beyond saving, but airburst shells and paired with an assault on a point/OKW base would make them fulfil some sort of role. Maybe not well.
Glider? Land it during an assault behind the enemy or on a point close to the frontline, not make it land on a point far behind the lines like Airborne. Sure, maybe people don't like these strategies, but I'm the one trying to make the bad situations better. Better then just saying, fuck it, it's useless.
Back off topic, keep your petty personal problems with me off these forums.

Do people lack the ability to use .org themselves that they instead have a spokesperson who hates the site, to come to the site and make a thread on a topic that they themselves don't agree with despite disagreeing with me when I state why it only needs a slight armour increase?

So you build a Churchill turn it into a command vehicle, then build a 17 Pdr or instead of a firefly build an AVRE and you think the problem lies with the Churchill? Sorry, other people that you speak for think that the Churchill is the problem?

Why are you talking about gliders? Keep it on topic, sheesh

Back off topic, keep your petty personal problems with me off these forums.

No, I simply refuse to say nothing to someone who shits all over a place that does a whole lot for a game I love and expects to be treat like a special snowflake with no mention of it, I think I have a rite to let people know just what you really think of a site you only use so "the powers that be" will MAYBE look at your 'well thought out' topics.

There is no reason to go churchill for two reasons:

1. Cromwell is way better and you can get two or three by the time you could possibly get one churchill

2. Why on earth go churchill when you can get the mother of all tanks, also known as the formula 1 driftking 360 noscope I rekt all Comet.

There is no reason to go churchill for two reasons:

1. Cromwell is way better and you can get two or three by the time you could possibly get one churchill

2. Why on earth go churchill when you can get the mother of all tanks, also known as the formula 1 driftking 360 noscope I rekt all Comet.

Exactly my point. Spot on. Surely there should be an actual reason to take the Churchill and therefore, Anvil? Whether it be a slight armour buff with an HP decrease and a cost increase to it's original levels or maybe an AI buff to make it better against infantry but keep the same performance against tanks. Of course, it's MGs are pretty good already. As it stands now, the KV-1 is a better tank stat-wise.
I'd just personally like to see more variety in the gameplay. Whether or not that means nerfing the Comet as well, though some would agree, that might not be the most welcome change.

Remove bonus armor with smoke and lower speed penalty with smoke. This would greatly improve churchill

The tone down it down guys.

As for why Churchills are overshadowed by Comets, it's because the Comets have better use.

Allow me to point out the positives.

Comet:
1) Has a better accuracy on the move than the Panther.
2) Has a better potential to penetrate German armor.
3) At Vet 2, the drivers automatically toss out grenades if the tanks don't use the hold fire.
4) Worth its weight in fuel and manpower.
5) Has indirect benefits such as the "War Speed" if the British players make use of it.
6) Has the ability of shooting White Phosphorous at units.
7) Has ability to throw nuke nades.

Churchill:
1) High Health Pool
2) At Vet 2, the crew opens their hatches and shoots from them.
3) Creates a smoke screen, but at the cost of being slow.
4) Has ability to throw nuke nades.

So you see the issue, the Comet has more positive benefits than the Churchill. Another problem the Chuchill faces is that it is a slow lumbering tank that is really just there as a punching bag for StuGs, Panthers, Tigers, Jagdpanzers, etc. Whereas the Comet can easily make a hit and run on German units and have a better chance at returning. I almost forgot to mention that it has a better gun than the Churchill and can act as a shield for Fireflies from behind.

Exactly my point. Spot on. Surely there should be an actual reason to take the Churchill and therefore, Anvil? Whether it be a slight armour buff with an HP decrease and a cost increase to it's original levels or maybe an AI buff to make it better against infantry but keep the same performance against tanks. Of course, it's MGs are pretty good already. As it stands now, the KV-1 is a better tank stat-wise.
I'd just personally like to see more variety in the gameplay. Whether or not that means nerfing the Comet as well, though some would agree, that might not be the most welcome change.

Great ideas! I also liked how the churchill worked in CoH, where it had this ai ability that would surpress nearby squads and it was sort of a breakthrough tank that would support infantry and could even be upgraded with an anti mine grid on its front.

Remove bonus armor with smoke and lower speed penalty with smoke. This would greatly improve churchill

Not a bad idea. I didn't know it gave bonus armour. Or do you mean bonus cover for infantry in the smoke? Which I also didn't know it did. Seems a bit counter-intuitive. Yeah, that's a good idea, but there would still be inherent issues with the tank.

Great ideas! I also liked how the churchill worked in CoH, where it had this ai ability that would surpress nearby squads and it was sort of a breakthrough tank that would support infantry and could even be upgraded with an anti mine grid on its front.

Sherman sweeper was better, not only swept mines but also shred nazis

Sorry for the

The tone down it down guys.

As for why Churchills are overshadowed by Comets, it's because the Comets have better use.

Allow me to point out the positives.

Comet:
1) Has a better accuracy on the move than the Panther.
2) Has a better potential to penetrate German armor.
3) At Vet 2, the drivers automatically toss out grenades if the tanks don't use the hold fire.
4) Worth its weight in fuel and manpower.
5) Has indirect benefits such as the "War Speed" if the British players make use of it.
6) Has the ability of shooting White Phosphorous at units.
7) Has ability to throw nuke nades.

Churchill:
1) High Health Pool
2) At Vet 2, the crew opens their hatches and shoots from them.
3) Creates a smoke screen, but at the cost of being slow.
4) Has ability to throw nuke nades.

So you see the issue, the Comet has more positive benefits than the Churchill. Another problem the Churchill faces is that it is a slow lumbering tank that is really just there as a punching bag for StuGs, Panthers, Tigers, Jagdpanzers, etc. Whereas the Comet can easily make a hit and run on German units and have a better chance at returning. I almost forgot to mention that it has a better gun than the Churchill and can act as a shield for Fireflies from behind.

Yeah, so is there anyway we could even out the positives? Also, Vet 1 is when the Churchill gains 2 extra MGs, the Comet gets passive grenade toss at Vet 3.
Anyway, I would suggest a slight armour increase so that it can hold it's own against Panthers a wee bit more, with a decrease in HP to KT levels and an cost increase to it's original levels. Also, maybe a change to how their smokescreen works, and maybe a slight AOE buff to help against infantry. The other Churchill variants are fine as they are.
Also, as a suggestion, what about bringing the main gun to Cromwell levels?

On a semi-unrelated note, does anyone know why the Churchill Crocodile has 2 stats for it's flamethrower? One called sweep? Is it an old locked out ability?