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russian armor

Ost mortar is too OP(Vickers HP bug)

22 Jan 2017, 12:18 PM
#61
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned

  • 120mm Sov mortar has more range + more damage + 6 men squads with the ability to survive with one man left (which is absolute BS). Though it is doctrinal and shoots slower.



More damage ? i think its 80 like all another mortars. 120 are in doc, cost more, so its normal that its must be better.
But what you think about normal mortar in t2 ?
22 Jan 2017, 12:34 PM
#62
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Jan 2017, 13:53 PMAradan


While on each side to enlarge an area of 25%. You get side of this sqaure 1,5x bigger.
You got a bug and it's still counting enlarged on one side only.

(1.25 * x + 1.25 * |-x|) so you can not count so, you ought to result in extra one entire side x, no?

(2*(0,25*X)+X) * (2*(0,25 *Y)+Y)

For example, Square 2*2 = area 4 units
25% bigger side on each side means square 3*3 = area 9 units (125% greater)


3 is 50% bigger than 2. Can you break this down into steps how you applied 25% to 2 and got 3?
22 Jan 2017, 14:53 PM
#63
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

Think radius, not diameter. (Since that what is being simulated by trapezoidal scatter values.)

The value of 2 is increased by 25% twice, separately. Once for each direction on the axis. 25% of its base value is added to each end, which adds .5 to each side of 2. making 3.

(Now I don't know if this is how the engine works, but it's how the math he's doing works.)
22 Jan 2017, 15:07 PM
#64
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

Think radius, not diameter. (Since that what is being simulated by trapezoidal scatter values.)

The value of 2 is increased by 25% twice, separately. Once for each direction on the axis. 25% of its base value is added to each end, which adds .5 to each side of 2. making 3.

(Now I don't know if this is how the engine works, but it's how the math he's doing works.)


Let's do concrete values. Let's say that horizontal scatter is 1 on each direction, and vertical scatter is 2 on each direction.

That gives us a square which has size (|-1| + 1) * (|-2| + 2) = 2 * 4 = 8

Now, we increase all scatter values by, say, 25%. That means that 1 gets displaced to 1.25 and 2 gets displaced to 2.5. The area of this would be:
(|-1.25| + 1.25) * (|-2.5| + 2.5) = 2.5 * 5 = 12.5

Thus, the net increase is 56.25%.

Alternatively, you could have calculated the net increase directly, by simply raising the 1-D difference to the square (1.25 = 1.25 = 1.5625

In the case of your trapezoid example, the 2 is the diameter. Thus, 1 is the radius. Thus, a 25% increase will still increase both the radius and the diameter by 25%.

Regardless of whether you multiply the whole value by 1.25, or multiply both halfs by the same amount and them add them together, the result will still be the same!

22 Jan 2017, 15:27 PM
#65
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

Uh okay. I don't disagree with you. I'm just trying to decipher his math.

Forget what I said before:

He's saying that the 25% increase in value is being added twice. That's all.
23 Jan 2017, 09:08 AM
#66
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 1003



Let's do concrete values. Let's say that horizontal scatter is 1 on each direction, and vertical scatter is 2 on each direction.

That gives us a square which has size (|-1| + 1) * (|-2| + 2) = 2 * 4 = 8

Now, we increase all scatter values by, say, 25%. That means that 1 gets displaced to 1.25 and 2 gets displaced to 2.5. The area of this would be:
(|-1.25| + 1.25) * (|-2.5| + 2.5) = 2.5 * 5 = 12.5

Thus, the net increase is 56.25%.

Alternatively, you could have calculated the net increase directly, by simply raising the 1-D difference to the square (1.25 = 1.25 = 1.5625

In the case of your trapezoid example, the 2 is the diameter. Thus, 1 is the radius. Thus, a 25% increase will still increase both the radius and the diameter by 25%.

Regardless of whether you multiply the whole value by 1.25, or multiply both halfs by the same amount and them add them together, the result will still be the same!



OK, I see it, I added even worth the opposite axis. I apologize for my math.
And thank you for refreshing the my mind. :S
23 Jan 2017, 09:44 AM
#67
avatar of Neris

Posts: 132

Brits mortar do same thing (snipe units with 1 or 2 shots while squad is concentrated in one place), Soviets too, USF too. What is the point?
23 Jan 2017, 12:38 PM
#68
avatar of Mirdarion

Posts: 283

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jan 2017, 09:44 AMNeris
Brits mortar do same thing (snipe units with 1 or 2 shots while squad is concentrated in one place), Soviets too, USF too. What is the point?


I think the consensus in this thread by now is that the Ostheer mortar is not exclusive with its problems. The current state of the game rewards the player with the most and best artillery - and this does not make the game fun to play, when the game turns into Company of Artillery again (we saw that with COH1 already).
25 Jan 2017, 16:48 PM
#69
avatar of Bravus

Posts: 503

Permanently Banned
All mortars are op now...

Looks like coh2 mortars have gps, but gps in 2n war???

And german stationary art is useless, enemy run into it and call some p2w art (without vision strikes) and kill it, or just get a rocket truck and kill ez.

If you put a art in 20 meters of your base maybe they dont get killed but dont kill anything too.

Edit: a match now, with 2 squad stormpioner at 10 meters of a 6 man mortar in 5 seconds dont kill anything, and no damage, i retry because are conscripts... In same game, a 2 squad pioner and one with bazooka, fire a 3 man usf mortar, and fire fire, and dont kill and no damage, 2 bazookas shots in head of the guys and no damage... Things like that make me see how this game are total arcade, no %1 of realism...
27 Jan 2017, 09:15 AM
#70
avatar of Blalord

Posts: 742 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jan 2017, 16:48 PMBravus
All mortars are op now...

Looks like coh2 mortars have gps, but gps in 2n war???

And german stationary art is useless, enemy run into it and call some p2w art (without vision strikes) and kill it, or just get a rocket truck and kill ez.

If you put a art in 20 meters of your base maybe they dont get killed but dont kill anything too.

Edit: a match now, with 2 squad stormpioner at 10 meters of a 6 man mortar in 5 seconds dont kill anything, and no damage, i retry because are conscripts... In same game, a 2 squad pioner and one with bazooka, fire a 3 man usf mortar, and fire fire, and dont kill and no damage, 2 bazookas shots in head of the guys and no damage... Things like that make me see how this game are total arcade, no %1 of realism...


Replay or it never happend, Support weapons die easily when you manage to get close

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