Relic Winter Balance Preview v1.4 Update

Could someone take a look at the flame hetzer?

Well they could at least something to me so I can forward it. I don't think I've disrespected on the topic of WBP

No, not at all. I was referring to the other 2.

Guys guys guys. Don´t let yourself to get confused by wadas words. Because there were big mistakes in past, it shouldn´t discourage us to create better future of coh2.

If we manage to create balance game, I think, playerbase won´t go down so drasticly

I don't doubt that the community can make a balance game but because we are at this point, I do doubt relic will release new content or try to make esports a reality

I don't doubt that the community can make a balance game but because we are at this point, I do doubt relic will release new content or try to make esports a reality

We don´t need new content. Aditional commaders or faction will make game even harder to balance.
Maybe after patches Relic will finally start to cooperate with .org and Ami in order to make good (crowd funded) tournaments.

I´m optimist

This may not be in the scope of the current balance patch, but is there a reason that Rakettens need to be able to move while cloaked? I know that they aren't natively as good as a PAK, but between a cloaked approach and then the ability to retreat, they have the ability to snipe vehicles and then get away scot free.

This may not be in the scope of the current balance patch, but is there a reason that Rakettens need to be able to move while cloaked? I know that they aren't natively as good as a PAK, but between a cloaked approach and then the ability to retreat, they have the ability to snipe vehicles and then get away scot free.

They need that ability with just how easy they can be one shotted. Up their survivability, remove the abilities is the only way that will work.

I have to say that I take the opinions of people who have ditched the community with a pinch of salt. You guys have your own reasons for leaving and that's cool, but you don't need to try and take everyone with you. CoH2 legends come and go, you don't need to crush the community on your way out.

We all know Relic messes up. blah blah. Nothing new there for years.

Fact is the situation we have right now, is that a community balance team are trying to do some good work in the game and we need to focus on that as the only option we have. This doesn't need to turn into a 'Reasons why the old CoH2 crowd doesn't play anymore' thread

#footman

Is it possible to take away the auto fire from the british mortar bit and give it only possibility to fire manually?

If you give brits a mobile mortar or remove the auto attack from all indirects... Being stationary is a huge disadvantage already.

Maybe after patches Relic will finally start to cooperate with .org and Ami in order to make good (crowd funded) tournaments.

I´m optimist

Amen

We don´t need new content. Aditional commaders or faction will make game even harder to balance.
Maybe after patches Relic will finally start to cooperate with .org and Ami in order to make good (crowd funded) tournaments.

I´m optimist

I think it would be nice to see a little more content in COH2. It would make the game even more fun to see a faction of the Japanese for example. It would be great because it would please everyone I think. We can not forget that CoH2 is still a game, and people tend to like it more than a game that gives them an identification with something, and I believe a lot of people would identify in playing an RTS with the Japanese along with all those existing factions No coh2! These two points I think are critical for a game to have a good competitive scenario, have variety in content and a good investment in competitive events.

To be fair, the ship has sailed on CoH being a competitive esports with all that jazz, because the game's fluff is based on one of the most tumultuous moments of human history that even now incites passionate and heated response from different countries, moreover the game looks extremely gritty compared to every other RTS out there and of the large amount of swearing in the game.

It was never going to become an esports on par with any other decently popular RTS, even more so after the launch controversy with the campaign. It's bad news from an organizer's perspective.

People like me play for fun with friends, and it makes me hopeful seeing relic actually working hand in hand with modders to create a hopefully comprehensive balance change. It is up to the people actually testing the mod to provide the feedback necessary to provide the modders with the information they need to balance certain units and shake up the meta while providing increased commander choices.

I had hoped that more QoL changes from Miragefla's or Mr smith's mods would be included, but at least Relic finally pulled out the wax out of it's ears and is actively trying to fix the game based on community feedback (because they fired all the devs )

I have to say that I take the opinions of people who have ditched the community with a pinch of salt. You guys have your own reasons for leaving and that's cool, but you don't need to try and take everyone with you. CoH2 legends come and go, you don't need to crush the community on your way out.

We all know Relic messes up. blah blah. Nothing new there for years.

Fact is the situation we have right now, is that a community balance team are trying to do some good work in the game and we need to focus on that as the only option we have. This doesn't need to turn into a 'Reasons why the old CoH2 crowd doesn't play anymore' thread

+1

Stuart already becomes more mobile. Only problem is that its mobility buffs are gated behind Vet3. Speaking of which; has anybody ever seen a Vet3 stuart? (swapping crews doesn't count)

Actually, before I fell in love with the m20, I used the Stuart a lot more, and as long as I didn't get unlucky (double rakk or go around the corner into a blob or some shit), my Stuart would usually vet pretty high, often to vet3 if I played well. And yes, the thing does turn into a soap bar at that point.

They need that ability with just how easy they can be one shotted. Up their survivability, remove the abilities is the only way that will work.

Yeah, I actually agree with this 100% despite being mainly an allied player. The gun itself is really small and offers no cover, unlike the other at guns, which offer green cover to the gunners, so the 2 rak gunners clump up close together and can easily get one-shotted by a tank, and if the other two guys are nearby usually it will result in a wiped rak. I've done this many many times with cromwells and HE shermans.

To be fair, the ship has sailed on CoH being a competitive esports with all that jazz, because the game's fluff is based on one of the most tumultuous moments of human history that even now incites passionate and heated response from different countries, moreover the game looks extremely gritty compared to every other RTS out there and of the large amount of swearing in the game.

It was never going to become an esports on par with any other decently popular RTS, even more so after the launch controversy with the campaign. It's bad news from an organizer's perspective.

People like me play for fun with friends, and it makes me hopeful seeing relic actually working hand in hand with modders to create a hopefully comprehensive balance change. It is up to the people actually testing the mod to provide the feedback necessary to provide the modders with the information they need to balance certain units and shake up the meta while providing increased commander choices.

I had hoped that more QoL changes from Miragefla's or Mr smith's mods would be included, but at least Relic finally pulled out the wax out of it's ears and is actively trying to fix the game based on community feedback (because they fired all the devs )

Just because the game is set in the world war does not mean that the players have converted to an ideology or another of the era in which the game takes place. We could expect this then from several games set in the second world war that exist there (BF1 for example). This is bullshit in my point of view. It's like saying that a GTA player is going to be a vandal just because he did that in the game.
I played Starcraft 2 for a long time, went high ranking, watched the game's championship events and everything. I see the mechanics of CoH2 MUCH better for the RTS game than there is in Starcraft 2. There are basically clicks-per-seconds that matter. CoH2 is like a chess. I know CoH2 is an old game, but it's a classic for min. And even if time passes and your graphics get more and more behind, still it will be fun to play it because of its mechanical and thematic and its soundtrack that is also exceptional! Honestly I'm sad to see a game so it's not a reference in E-sport.

Just because the game is set in the world war does not mean that the players have converted to an ideology or another of the era in which the game takes place. We could expect this then from several games set in the second world war that exist there (BF1 for example).

And yet the original BF1942 never became an esport. The old CoDs never became an esport. If you are trying to create an esport your fluff material has to be as inoffensive as possible Blizzard even removed the references to drugs in SC2 (stim pack sounds).

This is bullshit in my point of view. It's like saying that a GTA player is going to be a vandal just because he did that in the game.

The difference between CoH and GTA is that you can invoke Godwin's law very easily in a game about ww2. CoH2 came out and was bombarded with bad reviews by angry russians calling it a Nazi game and other choice stuff because of the campaign story. By the time CoH2 came out the e-sport market was already shifting from RTS. Starcraft 2 had been overshadowed by league. Dota was coming out and CSGO was getting itself together. Relic missed the metaphorical esport bus so as to speak. Instead of doubling down and milking the community with DLC, relic should have had invested more money into the scene itself with community funded stuff a lot more. Oh and balance the game better. Over time CoH2 would have had a stable online community and eventually become an esport by itself.

For what it's worth relic seems to be following this idea with DoW3.

I played Starcraft 2 for a long time, went high ranking, watched the game's championship events and everything. I see the mechanics of CoH2 MUCH better for the RTS game than there is in Starcraft 2. There are basically clicks-per-seconds that matter. CoH2 is like a chess. I know CoH2 is an old game, but it's a classic for min. And even if time passes and your graphics get more and more behind, still it will be fun to play it because of its mechanical and thematic and its soundtrack that is also exceptional! Honestly I'm sad to see a game so it's not a reference in E-sport.

Being a good game has very little to do with being an esport success. First and Foremost, you need a game that sells a metric shit ton. Total War Warhammer got an ESL league and less than 5% of the people in the game have played a single MP game. Despite the very barebones Multiplayer, the game has it's own organic multiplayer community now.

Yes, I agree that Relic makes unique and innovative RTS games in a genre that is largely stale (See SC2). But making a game like CoH that is fundamentally RNG dependent and has long playtimes is an uphill slog.

Could Relic have done it if they handled things differently?
Probably yes.

But that ship has long sailed. We are better off actually making the game play better via giving feedback to relic now that they are finally letting the community take the reins of the game.

One example for the main problems:

Ost was desgined in vanilla to fight vs sovjet. Sovjet Main Infantery was weak but has 6models and was cheap.

after the year new content come with new factions. USF and UKF as enemy faction to ost was now nearly hardcounter to ost infantery...5 models with huge dmg (upgraded) and good surviving possibiltys.

and mortas and much artilly come as new content...now the 4 model squads from ost struggle with it...cause often you must retreat after lose the first model...or it wil wipe (often on retreat/ through indirekt fire)

why in the hell ost dont get a change? No..they are the "Gold Standard". Aha.... Oo

now u have some chance in the squad clumbing..but why ost didnt get a 5. model after tech t4 or something? their survivebilty is so low and the dmg isnt high...they arent a glascanon...they are weak.

penals are in 1.4 now one of the strongest infantery...and one of the best in Price/ performance.

they can have flamer, ptrs, satchels, 6mann, only 300Mp, in t1, denien cover, good vet, strong near/mid/long rangedmg,...

they are the old and better new meta.

And yet the original BF1942 never became an esport. The old CoDs never became an esport. If you are trying to create an esport your fluff material has to be as inoffensive as possible Blizzard even removed the references to drugs in SC2 (stim pack sounds).


The difference between CoH and GTA is that you can invoke Godwin's law very easily in a game about ww2. CoH2 came out and was bombarded with bad reviews by angry russians calling it a Nazi game and other choice stuff because of the campaign story. By the time CoH2 came out the e-sport market was already shifting from RTS. Starcraft 2 had been overshadowed by league. Dota was coming out and CSGO was getting itself together. Relic missed the metaphorical esport bus so as to speak. Instead of doubling down and milking the community with DLC, relic should have had invested more money into the scene itself with community funded stuff a lot more. Oh and balance the game better. Over time CoH2 would have had a stable online community and eventually become an esport by itself.

For what it's worth relic seems to be following this idea with DoW3.



Being a good game has very little to do with being an esport success. First and Foremost, you need a game that sells a metric shit ton. Total War Warhammer got an ESL league and less than 5% of the people in the game have played a single MP game. Despite the very barebones Multiplayer, the game has it's own organic multiplayer community now.

Yes, I agree that Relic makes unique and innovative RTS games in a genre that is largely stale (See SC2). But making a game like CoH that is fundamentally RNG dependent and has long playtimes is an uphill slog.

Could Relic have done it if they handled things differently?
Probably yes.

But that ship has long sailed. We are better off actually making the game play better via giving feedback to relic now that they are finally letting the community take the reins of the game.

I agree that CoH2 is a game of the type that does not dominate easily, and that distances some players, but I believe that this is not the decisive factor that made CoH2 stay behind in the number of sales and the multiplayer games. The ranking and match-matching system greatly undermines players' development.

The current system based on a global score allows players with less than 20 matches to be in the top 50 of the game easily, some players chema in the high ranking and only play a match after several days, just to maintain the ranking. This added to other factors like the use of the game store, the production of additional content like skins, faceplates and even more, things like modifications of HuDs, infantry Skins that do not exist and if it existed would be great!

All this to min influences much more in the adherence of a player in the game than necessarily in the difficulty in being a good player. It's a matter of motivation. Winning only to increase the ranking number is motivating but not so much that if there were other factors such as a game store with a greater diversity of products, so that besides the victory serve to rise in the ranking, also personalize your own army. Every online game becomes difficult, simple as it is, as you play with more experienced / skilled players, CoH2 is difficult, but games with simple mechanics also become very difficult as you play against more skillful players Online and if there is nothing more than "entering the game and clicking on the search game" it becomes demotivating as the player gets frustrated with the defeats that inevitably appeared in the game.

Yeah, I actually agree with this 100% despite being mainly an allied player. The gun itself is really small and offers no cover, unlike the other at guns, which offer green cover to the gunners, so the 2 rak gunners clump up close together and can easily get one-shotted by a tank, and if the other two guys are nearby usually it will result in a wiped rak. I've done this many many times with cromwells and HE shermans.

There is a little misconception with the bold part.

Copy-paste from an older post:

Unfortunately you are wrong. At least on 90% of the cases and for what it matters most of the time.

1-The AT gun does not provide green cover for the guys operating the weapon. You do full damage (i can't test accuracy outside of making a mod) either through small arm fire or explosives (grenades or mortar shells for example). Easy to check by either killing the crew with a grenade/mortar or activating the dmg indicator on cheatmods.

2-The AT gun ITSELF does create green cover and each of them has a hitbox (which can blocks incoming shots). The thing is, it's mostly irrelevant for the crew due to formation.
Check the pic (for some reason the rak 4th guy spread out)
Show Spoiler

So yeah, green cover on the AT gun for the crew is useless, cause a shell landing on top of it will kill the 2 operating guys and heavily wound the 3rd guy which might be nearby.

That been said, it's not worthless putting AT guns behind cover, cause that will protect the operators.

There is a little misconception with the bold part.

Copy-paste from an older post:

Huh. Never knew that. It always seems like the two gunners are a lot harder to hit from the front, although they do die from grenades, so I shoulda guessed.