Why the flamer HT is not addressed in WBP?

But when it is the situation that WASP vs garrisoned mg, this game always tolerate axis players more as they can react slowly because wasp get nerfed so many time due to most of the axis player whining about their inability to move their troops. And now ,garrsioned mg42 can start to pack up and escape after being hitted by wasp 2-3 times, but the people on forum agree instant wipe of garrisoned mg of ally by 251 flame HT is actually balace and being wiped is the ally player's fault that not reacting fast enough .lolllll

i would like to see the replay which made you so ****hurt.

Will you provide it?

Its a super underrated unit that is not meta for alot of players. If everyone would start use it more there would be a "OP pls nerf" topic in no time.

Everyone in this topic thats says its "weak and cant squadwipe" probably used the flamer HT last in 2015 ;-)

i would like to see the replay which made you so ****hurt.

Will you provide it?

I use the op flame HT to counter maxim and I find that it is too powerful and always instant wipe garrisoned MGs. Axis unit's performance is so unforgettable and force me to make a thread on forum because I have never enjoyed such kind of experience when using WASP and my opponent garrisoned MG always able to escape from my wasp even it afking for a while and get hitted by two to three times. I am so suprised that how imbalance this game is.

garrison multiplier decrease from 1.25 to 1.it is a nref. And the dot damage decrease also. You may argue the flame duration increase from 2 to 3 second compensate the performance loss against garrison. However it means that the opponent have even more time to react to it, since it takes longer time to completely output the damage.

What dot damage decrease? What anti-garrison performance nerf?

Burst duration from 2 to 3 is a huge buff, and applies 50% as much dots; and the dots are not affected by the garrison multiplier. Both direct damage and the dots are murderous to garrisoned infantry.

Just... play the mod, and come back to tell me with a straight face that UC's anti-garrison ability has been nerfed.

Thats the problem. Instant kill of garrisoned unit is unacceptable and simply op.

you cant instant wipe mgs. Enough time to react and leave the building at least for me.
You just need to leave the building and not stay inside. If you need help how to leave buidlings add me on steam and I help you

It's fine. L2P.

Tho it can be insanely deadly but only if you are not prepare.
That's not balance issue but L2P.

The flame track will likely be getting its flamer damage against garrisons adjusted at some point to stop it from being instant death to weapon teams that it even looks at. That's probably all the upgraded unit will receive.

Thats no good

Jesus Christ... leave the flamer halftrack alone

instead start looking at the REAL ISSUES of the game:
püppchen constantly missing crucial first shots + not being able to fire at trenches.
Comets
Free Recon planes
Arty Cover ...

+1 on all accounts

We all know why and it has nothing to do with the unit by itself.

Who pissed in your cereal this morning guy??

+1

+2

It s one of the best balanced units. Please dont touch not broken!

+3

If I may be permitted to comment, UC's damage output has increased by 50%.
Now, UC WASP is precisely half as good as the 251HT, which is quite generous given the relative costs.

I have no objections to this

It's fine. L2P.

Tho it can be insanely deadly but only if you are not prepare.
That's not balance issue but L2P.

"M20 is fine. L2P.

Tho it can not be deadly even if you are not prepare.
That's not balance issue but L2P."

BOOM!!M20 get nerf!!!!!

"M15A1 is fine. L2P.

Tho the main gun miss often and kill nothing then reload. Even you are not prepare, you wont lose many.
That's not balance issue but L2P."

BOOM!!M15A1 get nerf!!!!

Too much example of already week light vehicle that dont even have the ability to wipe a squad no matter it is garrisoned or not get nerf. TO BE BALANCE, 251HT should mot be excluded considering it give not enough time for ally player's garrisoned mg to react and escape just like why they decided to nerf WASP before.

I find it odd that so much focus is being paid to adjusting light vehicles across the board, but then other units are being balanced around the light vehicle meta that is being actively broken by the rest of the patch.

I know the patch has a scope, but the goals and intent of the patch seem to be getting muddier.

"M20 is fine. L2P.

Tho it can not be deadly even if you are not prepare.
That's not balance issue but L2P."

BOOM!!M20 get nerf!!!!!

"M15A1 is fine. L2P.

Tho the main gun miss often and kill nothing then reload. Even you are not prepare, you wont lose many.
That's not balance issue but L2P."

BOOM!!M15A1 get nerf!!!!

Too much example of already week light vehicle that dont even have the ability to wipe a squad no matter it is garrisoned or not get nerf. TO BE BALANCE, 251HT should mot be excluded considering it give not enough time for ally player's garrisoned mg to react and escape just like why they decided to nerf WASP before.

L2P bro.

If you can't handle microing and you lose squad in garrison it's L2P. It's not like FHT insta kills without any chances to react.

Plus your logic is broken.
If you are not prepare for X unit, you pay for it. Simple as that.

L2P bro.

If you can't handle microing and you lose squad in garrison it's L2P. It's not like FHT insta kills without any chances to react.

Plus your logic is broken.
If you are not prepare for X unit, you pay for it. Simple as that.

Dont derail the topic out of balance. I can react to it and escape on time means nothing to the balance. It is unrelated. After the nerf on most of the light vehicles except FHT, even the players do not prepare for the light vehicle, he difinitely dont have to pay for it. So why only the ally garrisoned team weapon have to pay for it when axis player dont? This is called imbalance.

What dot damage decrease? What anti-garrison performance nerf?

Burst duration from 2 to 3 is a huge buff, and applies 50% as much dots; and the dots are not affected by the garrison multiplier. Both direct damage and the dots are murderous to garrisoned infantry.

Just... play the mod, and come back to tell me with a straight face that UC's anti-garrison ability has been nerfed.

I have tested, it's a nerf. Before the WBP, the WASP consumes about 16 seconds to completely wipe out a garrisoned MG42. However in the WBP, it consumes 20 seconds which already is the beginning of the third burst to wipe out a garrisoned MG42.

As a reference, FHT can wipe out a garrisoned MG42 within 10 second. Only 1HP is left on the MG team after the first burst.


Just... play the mod and come back to tell me with a straight face that UC's anti-garrison ability has not been nerfed.

Although I have not tested to compare the anti garrison performance of the UC I have to point out that it also costs 1/3 less and that is allot.

In addition counting the number of burst might not be a proper way of comparison since it seem there are more DOTs and DOT damage meaning that the UC does not need to stay and fire all 3 burst but move back to safety after the second burst doing the same DOT with 2 burst instead of 3. And that is fair trade imo since UC is rather fragile.

Universal carrier (LIGHT VEHICLES)
Given the Universal Carrier’s low health, we felt that the damage of the WASP was too low for it to effectively dislodge exposed or garrisoned HMG teams, making British too reliant on the Mortar Pit and Sniper.
WASP
* Munitions cost reduced from 90 to 60
* WASP flame burst duration increased from 2 to 3
* WASP Cooldown from 2/3 to 3/4
* Damage versus Garrisons from 1.25 to 1
* Aim time increased to match 251
* Moving Accuracy from 0.5 to 1
* Flame can now fire over obstacles
* WASP DoT Radius from 5 to 3.
* Fire Aim Time from 0.125 to 1.375
* Ready-Aim Time from 0.375/0.625 to 0.375/0.375

L2P bro.

If you can't handle microing and you lose squad in garrison it's L2P. It's not like FHT insta kills without any chances to react.

Which is a lie. You only have a chance to react if
a) Your hmg if above 75% of health.
b) your camera is actually screening the action. You could be managing anything else around for a couple of seconds making any action to save your squad too late.

Not saying 251FT is OP, but it is definitively too much punishing if you didn't see it coming.
The OP is clearly right when he mentions that many light units absolutely not OP right now are getting nerfed for the sake of an invisible balance, something we'll never see (aka are M20/M15 balance in this patch without being nerfed). Patch dev's took the decision to balance light vehicles from the bottom but leave one of them untouched, one that can, in some specific condition, specific maps, wipe entire units in much less time that you actually think.

I played Coh2 since years now and I actually probably manage to vet3 a M15 once or twice (thanks to the planes). A m20 vet3 is something super rare but a 251ft vet3, I consider myself playing really badly or doing something stupid with my 251 if I lost it before it reach vet3 today.

I played Coh2 since years now and I actually probably manage to vet3 a M15 once or twice (thanks to the planes). A m20 vet3 is something super rare but a 251ft vet3, I consider myself playing really badly or doing something stupid with my 251 if I lost it before it reach vet3 today.

The m20 and 251 (tellar) should gain experience from mine damage if that is possible that would help them vet. The build time of these mines could also go down a bit.

I have tested, it's a nerf. Before the WBP, the WASP consumes about 16 seconds to completely wipe out a garrisoned MG42. However in the WBP, it consumes 20 seconds which already is the beginning of the third burst to wipe out a garrisoned MG42.

As a reference, FHT can wipe out a garrisoned MG42 within 10 second. Only 1HP is left on the MG team after the first burst.


Just... play the mod and come back to tell me with a straight face that UC's anti-garrison ability has not been nerfed.

if you need 10 seconds to react to prevent a wipe, the problem is not the game

do u know, which unit dont give u time to react? invisble commandos which through a grenade in a garrison mg...it will wipe hardly

if you need 10 seconds to react to prevent a wipe, the problem is not the game

Yet, axis player have 20 sec to react to WASP.As a reflection, less skill is needed for playing axis and more mistake is embraced when compare to ally garrisoned mg. In fact after minusing the time for a mg to pack up , u have to react within 6 secs. And not to mention it is the case that the MG is 100% HP which will not happen most of the time when 251 arrived. And once ur mg's health is lower than 99%, it is a wipe. Ur absurd excuses are enough.

Although I have not tested to compare the anti garrison performance of the UC I have to point out that it also costs 1/3 less and that is allot.

In addition counting the number of burst might not be a proper way of comparison since it seem there are more DOTs and DOT damage meaning that the UC does not need to stay and fire all 3 burst but move back to safety after the second burst doing the same DOT with 2 burst instead of 3. And that is fair trade imo since UC is rather fragile.

Universal carrier (LIGHT VEHICLES)
Given the Universal Carrier’s low health, we felt that the damage of the WASP was too low for it to effectively dislodge exposed or garrisoned HMG teams, making British too reliant on the Mortar Pit and Sniper.
WASP
* Munitions cost reduced from 90 to 60
* WASP flame burst duration increased from 2 to 3
* WASP Cooldown from 2/3 to 3/4
* Damage versus Garrisons from 1.25 to 1
* Aim time increased to match 251
* Moving Accuracy from 0.5 to 1
* Flame can now fire over obstacles
* WASP DoT Radius from 5 to 3.
* Fire Aim Time from 0.125 to 1.375
* Ready-Aim Time from 0.375/0.625 to 0.375/0.375

It requires 20 second(which is even worse than now) to wipe a garrisoned mg42 even keep firing on it, I cant imagime how ineffective if you just wait for the DOT to clear out the garrisoned unit.

I have tested, it's a nerf. Before the WBP, the WASP consumes about 16 seconds to completely wipe out a garrisoned MG42. However in the WBP, it consumes 20 seconds which already is the beginning of the third burst to wipe out a garrisoned MG42.

As a reference, FHT can wipe out a garrisoned MG42 within 10 second. Only 1HP is left on the MG team after the first burst.


Just... play the mod and come back to tell me with a straight face that UC's anti-garrison ability has not been nerfed.

I tested. NERF.I can not clear your logic Mr. Smith.