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Why the flamer HT is not addressed in WBP?

15 Dec 2016, 02:57 AM
#21
avatar of bert69

Posts: 150

dude with the soviet aa halftrack, you could literally beat an at gun and gren squad combo just by using a shotblocker and its vet 1 ability. A flanking aa ht can clear two at guns in a few seconds. How is that not calling for a nerf? It was op because it had dropped models so quickly and yet supressed at the same time. The flame ht is good because it does sustained damage over time if you stand in it.
15 Dec 2016, 03:06 AM
#22
avatar of kingdun3284

Posts: 392

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Dec 2016, 02:57 AMbert69
dude with the soviet aa halftrack, you could literally beat an at gun and gren squad combo just by using a shotblocker and its vet 1 ability. A flanking aa ht can clear two at guns in a few seconds. How is that not calling for a nerf? It was op because it had dropped models so quickly and yet supressed at the same time. The flame ht is good because it does sustained damage over time if you stand in it.


I sure the flame ht can do similar thing like the aa halftrack.
15 Dec 2016, 03:12 AM
#23
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 236

Flame HT is fine. Its fragile and can be countered easily.
15 Dec 2016, 03:26 AM
#24
avatar of Mistah_S

Posts: 851 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Dec 2016, 02:57 AMbert69
dude with the soviet aa halftrack, you could literally beat an at gun and gren squad combo just by using a shotblocker and its vet 1 ability. A flanking aa ht can clear two at guns in a few seconds. How is that not calling for a nerf? It was op because it had dropped models so quickly and yet supressed at the same time. The flame ht is good because it does sustained damage over time if you stand in it.

:clap::clap::clap::thumbsup::thumbsup:
Well said mate!!
+132

Flame HT is fine. Its fragile and can be countered easily.

+1.

I have never seen one past vet 1
15 Dec 2016, 07:26 AM
#25
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911


We are talking about balace, right?
Why do they nerf M20,M15 AA,M5 Quad, Luch and T70 in WBP while you can just keep your distance or build an ATG to prevent them from wiping your squad or counter them?

I would like to quote the reasons in WBP to nerf these unit.

M17 Quad:
"We wanted to tone down the performance of the Quad to be in-line with Light Tanks and other suppression platforms. In order to make infantry counters to this unit viable, the M17 can no longer suppress enemy squads on the move."from WBP

Just keep your distance man?

T70:
"We feel that the T-70’s high damage and AOE allowed it to wipe infantry too effectively, particularly if they are clumped in cover."from WBP

Just keep your distance man again?


That would make sense, if you didnt negect to mention the range on the 251 is like 20, and the range on the Meat Chopper/t70 was 45.
15 Dec 2016, 07:58 AM
#26
avatar of capiqua
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 985 | Subs: 2

HTflame is an instawiped garrison.

Relic does not play their games so it's not a problem for them :S
15 Dec 2016, 08:11 AM
#27
avatar of miragefla
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

The flame track will likely be getting its flamer damage against garrisons adjusted at some point to stop it from being instant death to weapon teams that it even looks at. That's probably all the upgraded unit will receive.

As has been stated, it has more counters in the form of handheld AT and it has been indirectly nerfed due to 222s being harder to obtain. Spacing is more a maybe due to the fact the AOE is pretty large and if you touch cover, everyone is likely taking a DoT.

In terms of power, it is a very high-risk reward unit for Ostheer given the faction is very reliant on munitions given it's required for healing and ensuring their infantry can put up a fight in the later stages. It also has some very strong counters in the form of other light vehicles which it can only scratch while being very fragile. Furthermore, supported ATGs are a no go unless the 251 flanks which is not unique to the 251.
15 Dec 2016, 09:18 AM
#28
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2272 | Subs: 1

Jesus Christ... leave the flamer halftrack alone

houses are OP anyway with that non-existing cover malus, in- and out hopping mechanic and the "rush to cutoff/fuel house right at the start meta". when you're too stupid to use the insane sight range of a house to see the flamer halftrack coming you've deserved the wipe 3 times. you can also use the house to bait for mine and at gun traps and whatnot...


instead start looking at the REAL ISSUES of the game:

püppchen constantly missing crucial first shots + not being able to fire at trenches.

Comets

Free Recon planes

Arty Cover ...
15 Dec 2016, 09:52 AM
#29
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1


As has been stated, it has more counters in the form of handheld AT and it has been indirectly nerfed due to 222s being harder to obtain. Spacing is more a maybe due to the fact the AOE is pretty large and if you touch cover, everyone is likely taking a DoT.
.


In 1vs1, maybe. I hardly see anyone playing Ostheer not building a 251FT every single teamgame I play. Some guys are even building 2 of them.
I admit its map dependent but it comes way sooner than anything that can hard counter it.

It is a high risk / high reward unit and honestly becoming a less risky and less rewarding unit would make the unit more balanced.



I have never seen one past vet 1


We all know why and it has nothing to do with the unit by itself.

15 Dec 2016, 11:04 AM
#30
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned
Jesus Christ... leave the flamer halftrack alone

houses are OP anyway with that non-existing cover malus, in- and out hopping mechanic and the "rush to cutoff/fuel house right at the start meta". when you're too stupid to use the insane sight range of a house to see the flamer halftrack coming you've deserved the wipe 3 times. you can also use the house to bait for mine and at gun traps and whatnot...


instead start looking at the REAL ISSUES of the game:

püppchen constantly missing crucial first shots + not being able to fire at trenches.

Comets

Free Recon planes

Arty Cover ...


Who cares about brits fanboy :D.
15 Dec 2016, 12:10 PM
#31
avatar of empyriumm

Posts: 51

Jesus Christ... leave the flamer halftrack alone

houses are OP anyway with that non-existing cover malus, in- and out hopping mechanic and the "rush to cutoff/fuel house right at the start meta". when you're too stupid to use the insane sight range of a house to see the flamer halftrack coming you've deserved the wipe 3 times. you can also use the house to bait for mine and at gun traps and whatnot...


instead start looking at the REAL ISSUES of the game:

püppchen constantly missing crucial first shots + not being able to fire at trenches.

Comets

Free Recon planes

Arty Cover ...


+1
15 Dec 2016, 13:09 PM
#32
avatar of Doppelkrone

Posts: 15

there is no problem with the flame ht. Maybe a l2p issue here.

this!

15 Dec 2016, 13:54 PM
#33
avatar of empyriumm

Posts: 51

It s one of the best balanced units. Please dont touch not broken!
15 Dec 2016, 14:10 PM
#34
avatar of BIH_kirov_QC

Posts: 367

it not balanced at all against garrisons.

yes it is a very risky unit. but it aint normal that it will instakill mgs in garrisons.

other than that it is a very balanced unit.
15 Dec 2016, 14:21 PM
#35
avatar of kingdun3284

Posts: 392

The flame track will likely be getting its flamer damage against garrisons adjusted at some point to stop it from being instant death to weapon teams that it even looks at. That's probably all the upgraded unit will receive.

As has been stated, it has more counters in the form of handheld AT and it has been indirectly nerfed due to 222s being harder to obtain. Spacing is more a maybe due to the fact the AOE is pretty large and if you touch cover, everyone is likely taking a DoT.

In terms of power, it is a very high-risk reward unit for Ostheer given the faction is very reliant on munitions given it's required for healing and ensuring their infantry can put up a fight in the later stages. It also has some very strong counters in the form of other light vehicles which it can only scratch while being very fragile. Furthermore, supported ATGs are a no go unless the 251 flanks which is not unique to the 251.


Hope to see the changes on anti garriaon ability of 251HT soon as uc wasp anti garrison ability have gotten further nerf in WBP
15 Dec 2016, 14:23 PM
#36
avatar of kingdun3284

Posts: 392

it not balanced at all against garrisons.

yes it is a very risky unit. but it aint normal that it will instakill mgs in garrisons.

other than that it is a very balanced unit.


Thats the problem. Instant kill of garrisoned unit is unacceptable and simply op.
15 Dec 2016, 14:24 PM
#37
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17



Hope to see the changes on anti garriaon ability of 251HT soon as uc wasp anti garrison ability have gotten further nerf in WBP


If I may be permitted to comment, UC's damage output has increased by 50%.

Now, UC WASP is precisely half as good as the 251HT, which is quite generous given the relative costs.
15 Dec 2016, 14:32 PM
#38
avatar of kingdun3284

Posts: 392

Jesus Christ... leave the flamer halftrack alone

houses are OP anyway with that non-existing cover malus, in- and out hopping mechanic and the "rush to cutoff/fuel house right at the start meta". when you're too stupid to use the insane sight range of a house to see the flamer halftrack coming you've deserved the wipe 3 times. you can also use the house to bait for mine and at gun traps and whatnot...


instead start looking at the REAL ISSUES of the game:

püppchen constantly missing crucial first shots + not being able to fire at trenches.

Comets

Free Recon planes

Arty Cover ...


But when it is the situation that WASP vs garrisoned mg, this game always tolerate axis players more as they can react slowly because wasp get nerfed so many time due to most of the axis player whining about their inability to move their troops. And now ,garrsioned mg42 can start to pack up and escape after being hitted by wasp 2-3 times, but the people on forum agree instant wipe of garrisoned mg of ally by 251 flame HT is actually balace and being wiped is the ally player's fault that not reacting fast enough .lolllll
15 Dec 2016, 14:35 PM
#39
avatar of TickTack

Posts: 578



Thats the problem. Instant kill of garrisoned unit is unacceptable and simply op.

I've deleted squads in houses at max range - in one burst - using attack ground and flamer HT.
15 Dec 2016, 14:38 PM
#40
avatar of kingdun3284

Posts: 392



If I may be permitted to comment, UC's damage output has increased by 50%.

Now, UC WASP is precisely half as good as the 251HT, which is quite generous given the relative costs.
garrison multiplier decrease from 1.25 to 1.it is a nref. And the dot damage decrease also. You may argue the flame duration increase from 2 to 3 second compensate the performance loss against garrison. However it means that the opponent have even more time to react to it, since it takes longer time to completely output the damage.
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