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Should squads gain XP for repairing?

Should squads gain XP for repairing?
Option Distribution Votes
38%
40%
22%
Total votes: 45
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
12 Dec 2016, 22:25 PM
#1
avatar of Planet Smasher
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 632 | Subs: 1

The title says it all. This would be easy to implement by adding an interval action to repair abilities, effectively giving a squad XP every few seconds while repairing. I believe it would have a few positive effects:
  • Pioneers and Combat Engineers could reach Vet 2 more easily, improving their poor repair speed.
  • Squads with sweepers could still vet up somewhat effectively.
  • Repairing your teammates' vehicles would be more attractive.
Of course, the XP value shouldn't be too high. After repairing for 4-5 minutes straight, a fresh squad might reach Vet 1. Also, certain squads like Sturmpioneers or Vehicle Crews could be excluded.

What do you guys think?
12 Dec 2016, 22:35 PM
#2
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

EF ones could use it so sweepers can actually get vet 2. The rest do not need it at all.
12 Dec 2016, 22:57 PM
#3
avatar of scratchedpaintjob
Donator 11

Posts: 1021 | Subs: 1

Pioneers and combat engineers might need it, the rest not
13 Dec 2016, 00:01 AM
#4
avatar of Mistah_S

Posts: 851 | Subs: 1

Pioneers and combat engineers might need it, the rest not


+1 on this.
Sturms, RE Sappers/Echelons dont need it
13 Dec 2016, 01:17 AM
#5
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

Sure, so long as xp from dealing and receiving damage is throttled to something like 10%, if not outright removed.

Veterancy for kills.
13 Dec 2016, 01:20 AM
#6
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Pioneers and combat engineers might need it, the rest not
13 Dec 2016, 01:38 AM
#7
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

Or you could just give Pioneers and Combat Engineers a repair buff on their minesweepers, so getting them to vet 2 is further rewarded on those units.
13 Dec 2016, 07:14 AM
#8
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

Repairing? No. From damage with mines and demos? Yes.
13 Dec 2016, 07:37 AM
#9
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2

Both the Pioneers and Soviet Combat Engineers need to earn vet from pretty much everything they do since they scale so poorly and are next to useless compared to their Western Front counterparts.

Repairing, building (anything) and disabling mines should all count towards their vet.

Btw scratch one vote from "All of them" and put it towards "Only a few squads", I made a mistake, sorry.
13 Dec 2016, 09:18 AM
#10
avatar of Planet Smasher
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 632 | Subs: 1

I'm not sure if it's possible to have them gain vet from mine/demo kills, since those are separate entities. It's a great idea, though.

Gaining XP for building would also be nice, but it should be restricted to stuff that costs resources, so you can't spam sandbags for free Vet.

I'd say that the Power Creep from the original factions to the newer ones is especially apparent on Pioneers and Combat Engineers. You obviously need them, because they're your only option for repairs (and because these factions actually have to construct their base buildings :foreveralone: ), but they just perform poorly in nearly every regard.
13 Dec 2016, 11:37 AM
#11
avatar of scratchedpaintjob
Donator 11

Posts: 1021 | Subs: 1

I'm not sure if it's possible to have them gain vet from mine/demo kills, since those are separate entities. It's a great idea, though.

that's impossible, the technology just isnt there yet (coh1 had that system :D )
13 Dec 2016, 11:42 AM
#12
avatar of Svanh

Posts: 181

The Soviet and Ostheer engineer squads definitely need it but I'd prefer that it was given to all repairing squads for consistency's sake. Any issues that arise with the more combat-focused engineer squads can be mitigated by adjusting their veterancy requirements.

Sure, so long as xp from dealing and receiving damage is throttled to something like 10%, if not outright removed.

Veterancy for kills.

You do realise that this change would heavily nerf 6-man infantry squads, support units, and light vehicles (Kubel, M3, UC, etc.) right? What problem do you think this will solve? :)

I'm not sure if it's possible to have them gain vet from mine/demo kills, since those are separate entities. It's a great idea, though.

Gaining XP for building would also be nice, but it should be restricted to stuff that costs resources, so you can't spam sandbags for free Vet.

I'd say that the Power Creep from the original factions to the newer ones is especially apparent on Pioneers and Combat Engineers. You obviously need them, because they're your only option for repairs (and because these factions actually have to construct their base buildings :foreveralone: ), but they just perform poorly in nearly every regard.

I don't think the issue is power creep. If any unit has it bad, it's Rear Echelon squads. Dedicated engineer units just don't work if there isn't enough to build and UKF are the only faction with any real defenses.

13 Dec 2016, 12:53 PM
#13
avatar of Planet Smasher
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 632 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Dec 2016, 11:42 AMSvanh
The Soviet and Ostheer engineer squads definitely need it but I'd prefer that it was given to all repairing squads for consistency's sake. Any issues that arise with the more combat-focused engineer squads can be mitigated by adjusting their veterancy requirements.

I agree - consistency is one of the things this game needs most. Sappers could probably use higher veterancy requirements if this change was implemented. Sturmpioneer have high enough requirements as it is, and almost nobody uses USF Assault Engineers anyway.

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Dec 2016, 11:42 AMSvanh
I don't think the issue is power creep. If any unit has it bad, it's Rear Echelon squads. Dedicated engineer units just don't work if there isn't enough to build and UKF are the only faction with any real defenses.

Yes, REs are bad, but that's not as much of a problem because they are not as important. Having one RE squad is usually enough to sweep mines and maybe build a few tank traps for cover. Crews can repair their own vehicles with decent speed.

As Ostheer or Soviets however, having one Pioneer or Combat Engineer squad for repairs just isn't enough any more once you have 3+ vehicles. And unlike REs, you can't give them BARs or Bazookas to boost their DPS. Flamers are very situational.

that's impossible, the technology just isnt there yet (coh1 had that system :D )

Do you happen to know how that was implemented? I'd be interested in trying it out.
13 Dec 2016, 13:24 PM
#14
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

Yes, it was said many times that engis should get EXP for sweeping mines or repairing. It's very old idea, but not gonna happen.
13 Dec 2016, 14:43 PM
#15
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Dec 2016, 11:42 AMSvanh

You do realise that this change would heavily nerf 6-man infantry squads, support units, and light vehicles (Kubel, M3, UC, etc.) right? What problem do you think this will solve? :)


Vet should be earned.

Support teams are still just as survivable/wipeable regardless of their vet.

Light vehicles and infantry squads will still get vet. They just won't get boosts for every time they use an AT weapon, or walk into a mine.

The point is it slows down how much vet gets thrown around. I prefer that competent usage of a unit results in veterancy. Many units in CoH2 follow the rule of "using a unit results in vet, which makes it competent" which is rather backwards in my opinion.

But I know this is an unpopular opinion.
13 Dec 2016, 16:12 PM
#16
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

Good idea, but only for soviet and ost pios, only by a small amound thought.

Definitely not for other squads, not even conscripts with repair kit etc
14 Dec 2016, 00:57 AM
#17
avatar of Svanh

Posts: 181



Vet should be earned.

Support teams are still just as survivable/wipeable regardless of their vet.

Light vehicles and infantry squads will still get vet. They just won't get boosts for every time they use an AT weapon, or walk into a mine.

The point is it slows down how much vet gets thrown around. I prefer that competent usage of a unit results in veterancy. Many units in CoH2 follow the rule of "using a unit results in vet, which makes it competent" which is rather backwards in my opinion.

But I know this is an unpopular opinion.

I wouldn't have said that kills necessarily correlate to "competent usage of a unit". Using a T-70 to get a lucky last hit in on a Tiger, for example, would award all credit to the T-70 and neither the AT guns and TDs that did most of the damage nor the infantry that snared it would gain vet.

Experience is currently gained as the percentage of the resource cost of a target unit done as damage. Saying that vet isn't earned unless a unit dies ignores the advantage gained by heavily damaging a super-heavy and the difference between losing a Conscript model and an Obersoldaten model.

A kills-based veterancy system benefits high-cost, low-model units and heavy tanks at the expense of everything else and would worsen the unit obsolescence issues CoH2 already has.

Again, what problem does this solve?
14 Dec 2016, 01:47 AM
#18
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Dec 2016, 00:57 AMSvanh
Again, what problem does this solve?


The problem is indirect.

But I will admit, I know I'm arguing a weak point here. Veterancy in CoH2 has needed an overhaul for a long time. If anything my argument only applies for infantry squads. For vehicles the current vet system more or less works, but for infantry, especially ones that wield AT weapons, it's a problem.

That said:

I think vet is far too ubiquitous which lowers the impact vet has (and can have, to be balanced.) But quite frankly, infantry vet was outright BROKEN for MONTHS and no one really noticed. (Or attempt to explain it without certain people shutting down all discussion for the sake of post count.) Units get to max vet almost independently of any strategy or tactics. In fact, just keeping a unit alive means that they'll most likely be maxed out in vet. But I'm mostly talking about the first few units built in the game, not Comets, Tigers or OKW units getting to vet 5.

I mean, I feel like units on the field could get veterancy automatically on fixed timed intervals and the vet system would play out more or less the same that it does now.
14 Dec 2016, 02:18 AM
#19
avatar of Svanh

Posts: 181



The problem is indirect.

But I will admit, I know I'm arguing a weak point here. Veterancy in CoH2 has needed an overhaul for a long time. If anything my argument only applies for infantry squads. For vehicles the current vet system more or less works, but for infantry, especially ones that wield AT weapons, it's a problem.

That said:

I think vet is far too ubiquitous which lowers the impact vet has (and can have, to be balanced.) But quite frankly, infantry vet was outright BROKEN for MONTHS and no one really noticed. (Or attempt to explain it without certain people shutting down all discussion for the sake of post count.) Units get to max vet almost independently of any strategy or tactics. In fact, just keeping a unit alive means that they'll most likely be maxed out in vet. But I'm mostly talking about the first few units built in the game, not Comets, Tigers or OKW units getting to vet 5.

I mean, I feel like units on the field could get veterancy automatically on fixed timed intervals and the vet system would play out more or less the same that it does now.

I agree that hand-held AT weapons are an issue with the current system but vet being ubiquitous is a balancing factor. Veterancy already has a significant impact and a system in which you might have one or two vet 3 squads in a close game might lead to the issues CoH1 had with the Brit veterancy system where losing one specific unit could lose you the game. Especially with often worthless vet 1s, CoH2 wouldn't work with hard-to-acquire veterancy.

While keeping a unit alive will generally end in vet 3, it becomes harder to do so over the course of the game and well-used units will gain vet faster than poorly-used ones.

I think the current system is the best of a bad lot so far. Survival-based veterancy (by time intervals) would be far worse than the current XP base. :)
14 Dec 2016, 03:59 AM
#20
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

Of course it would be. I made that last point to illustrate a point, not suggest it as an alternative. God that would be awful.
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