[CommunityProject] We've got a lot of work ahead of us

EDIT: We are in the process of creating a new, expanded community team, focused on improving the game in all areas, specially balance, ability rework, veterancy overhaul, commander rework, bulletin rework, map balance etc.


This unofficial team is supposed to complement the current official team and give them a helping hand, and won't be a parallel group.


So far, we have 8 competent people ready to start doing work.

Why am I not listed in each category at least twice? BibleThump

Why am I not listed in each category at least twice? BibleThump

In which area you want to cooperate? (Assuming you are serious)

In which area you want to cooperate? (Assuming you are serious)

Just a question: How you imagine should this work? I thought that Relic doesnt want more people in the balance team than it is at its current state?

EDIT: We already have imo perfectly balanced mods like the GG mod, but Relic wont fully implement it as we see, will they?

Just a question: How you imagine should this work? I thought that Relic doesnt want more people in the balance team than it is at its current state?

True, and we won't work as a parallel team and won't be forcing ourselves on relic either. But, my opinion is that, the current team is too small, and there are many talented individuals left out.

This structure will help creating a swift and straight-to-the-point workflow. BUT, it requires lots of effort and work. Few people are willing to invest, even if they are interested.

EDIT: We already have imo perfectly balanced mods like the GG mod, but Relic wont fully implement it as we see, will they?

Mods like GG and the competitive edition are the works of individuals. Not trying to judge them, just saying they are done by one guy.

A project involving so many people and undergoing so many processes will be able to address a wide variety of issues and resolve the concerns of the concerns of the whole player base, since different people with different tastes and preferences are involved.

Mods like GG and the competitive edition are the works of individuals. Not trying to judge them, just saying they are done by one guy.

A project involving so many people and undergoing so many processes will be able to address a wide variety of issues and resolve the concerns of the concerns of the whole player base, since different people with different tastes and preferences are involved.

Ok, I really like your idea.
But to be perfectly honest:

adress variety of issues and resolve the concerns of the concerns of the whole player base

<-- this is the problem of CoH2 Balance. If you perfectly balance 1v1, you might wreck the balance of team game modes.. and the other way around. (Well okay, any game mode's balance is broken atm, at least as soon as USF is involved )

To come back to your question: I doubt that I fit in such a team because I can give advice only from the perspective of a 2v2 player.
+ I would prefer more harsh changes in CoH2, like removing auto-fire ability from all mortars in this game and make all indirect fire units (including mortars) do 100% friendly fire damage --> might end in a disaster

Ok, I really like your idea.
But to be perfectly honest: <-- this is the problem of CoH2 Balance. If you perfectly balance 1v1, you might wreck the balance of team game modes.. and the other way around. (Well okay, any game mode's balance is broken atm, at least as soon as USF is involved )

Balancing the game around 2v2+ is the most rationale approach. Not to mention the fact that almost all game modes share certain mechanisms and BO. But 1vs1 is so unpopular that shouldn't affect the balance patches.

To come back to your question: I doubt that I fit in such a team because I can give advice only from the perspective of a 2v2 player.

You meet the criteria for a balance tester IMO.

+ I would prefer more harsh changes in CoH2, like removing auto-fire ability from all mortars in this game and make all indirect fire units (including mortars) do 100% friendly fire damage --> might end in a disaster

Ideas like this, as harsh and drastic as the may seem at the first glance, can change the experience of players from boring/frustrating/predictable to something better.

Which is the case, artillery on maps like tros points create the worst CoH2 experience for both new and veteran players. Removing the auto fire and increasing friendly damage is one way to balance them.

The ultimate way to test a balance mod is by playing tournaments

The ultimate way to test a balance mod is by playing tournaments

Could be. But not many modders can afford to run a tournament.


I've browsed through the workshop and some of the mods blew my mind.

Could be. But not many modders can afford to run a tournament.


I've browsed through the workshop and some of the mods blew my mind.

They should ask for help then

I take care about design issues. It is not about bugs and technical issues, but about:
1. UI
2. Stylization of factions, units, minimaps, icons and etc.
Furthermore, i am around 0 in CoH 2 technical part. Just telling about things, which i want to see changed in the design of this game
P.S. Add Capiqua to Map Balance and redesign. He has made nice pack of redesigned maps http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=796854861

I take care about design issues. It is not about bugs and technical issues, but about:
1. UI
2. Stylization of factions, units, minimaps, icons and etc.
Furthermore, i am around 0 in CoH 2 technical part. Just telling about things, which i want to see changed in the design of this game
P.S. Add Capiqua to Map Balance and redesign. He has made nice pack of redesigned maps http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=796854861

I've read your popular thread, "Some QoL suggestions". Your suggestions are mainly visual bugs, and to be honest, your attention to detail is simply amazing. So I thought you might find it fun to work as a bug finder?

Anyhow, thanks for your participation. That list is temporary, and will be updated within 2 weeks, based on how many people express interest in joining and founding a community team.

So you as a visual bug testing and UI rework memeber?

They should ask for help then

You are right. Are there any rules and conditions?

So you as a visual bug testing and UI rework memeber?

Yeah, i'm in!

Yeah, i'm in!

I've read your popular thread, "Some QoL suggestions". Your suggestions are mainly visual bugs, and to be honest, your attention to detail is simply amazing. So I thought you might find it fun to work as a bug finder?

Anyhow, thanks for your participation. That list is temporary, and will be updated within 2 weeks, based on how many people express interest in joining and founding a community team.

So you as a visual bug testing and UI rework memeber?


You are right. Are there any rules and conditions?

Rules and conditions for what? ^^ asking help?
People can always PM me

List updated, slightly.

Rules and conditions for what? ^^ asking help?
People can always PM me

Thank you for offering help. So if modders want tips about tournaments, they should contact you then?

Balancing the game around 2v2+ is the most rationale approach. Not to mention the fact that almost all game modes share certain mechanisms and BO. But 1vs1 is so unpopular that shouldn't affect the balance patches.


You meet the criteria for a balance tester IMO.




Ideas like this, as harsh and drastic as the may seem at the first glance, can change the experience of players from boring/frustrating/predictable to something better.

Which is the case, artillery on maps like tros points create the worst CoH2 experience for both new and veteran players. Removing the auto fire and increasing friendly damage is one way to balance them.

Okay, you can count on me

Cruzz not in Vet Overhaul or Balance yet people like siuking and Vindi are?

Don't get me wrong, Vindi is a good player but he's a top tier whiner too.

Hey, I appreciate the honorable mention.

My time and energy is particularly limited. I can average, at most, maybe a handful games a week. I don't think my contributions will be current and hip enough for people to take seriously.

I've got more to say on overall faction and map design than bugs and technical issues. I've discussed a number of underlying issues with the game since beta plenty of times. Many of them are still just as broken and readily fixable.

I've got plenty of ideas that I've implemented through tuning packs over the years. (See signature, for instance.) But I doubt any of it would be within the scope of the patch.

I mean, I'm willing to offer my input in this effort, but I'm a little leery of this supposed group of people coming together and agreeing on much of anything.

As nice as it is to see this, there are plenty of people on this list that will never EVER agree with each other, and some of them swing hard one way to certain "ideologies" that make all of their opinions and statements hard to take truthfully.

Also more work for people who already are trying their hearts out for the most part, and everyone is essentially doing it for free. This would be even more of a workload for people that necessarily have none left to give (speaking for myself). I am already supposed to run a 2v2 custom map making tourney at the end of jan. I have been working on 1v1 maps and 2v2 maps for inclusion in the near future. Then I'm supposed to run another tourney, and then participate in this as well?

Not to mention coh 2 literally just fragged the entirety of my steam library and I lost everything due to its memory leaks... and it happened on stream. I have very little if nothing left to give at this point, especially considering the large amount of this community will never get along. After that you have a large sect of assholes that want to do nothing but trigger people and be assholes, then after all that, you have about 20ish people that actually want to do something, but when you really dig into the game, you are overwhelmed by the problems.

And what i mean by that is something along the lines of this:

List of things that make, making balanced maps next to impossible

• Any terrain variation of .5 meters = projectiles hitting the ground
  
• Any object over .5 meters = projectiles hitting the object
  
• Buildings will never make any one happy, you either have them have to much health and too dominating (glider) or they are irrelevant eye candy used for ambient call ins
  
• Engine glitches deform road splines on certain maps (road to kharkov is a good example) that then provide red cover everywhere
  
• Aggressive cutoffs or no? Nobody will agree
  
• Fuel and munitions locations?
  
• VP locations and how many?
  
• What kind of crush is acceptable where, and how should it best be implemented?
  
• Should all roads give negative cover or just some? How do you decide?
  
• What line of sight blockers should we use? Hedgerows that confuse everyone? LOS blockers that even when destroyed still block site and pathing? Or groves that are inherently buggy to begin with?
  
• How long and wide should a map be?
  

Anything with a questions is typically something that nobody agrees on, and is all kinda subjective. Also this is about half of what I could think of if I really spent time, not to mention all of the features and bug issues in the worldbuilder itself that make things impossible.

Now you take this, add in balance to the equation. Currently for a 2v2 map you have to design intelligently around the mortar pit, as the map has to be playable at all skill levels and the players should be able to derive some enjoyment out of it. Well the mortar pit sees 115m, which is one 4th of your "standard" 2v2. Now you gotta make remember that includes base areas. Base areas are typically 64x64 grids and that is PUSHING it. So total base areas is another 4th of the map. So basically you can, in a 2v2 map a mortar pit in your base and hold critical points with ease. Now add in LOS blockers that you can hide behind and it becomes an even bigger issue. This is just one aspect of designing a map around balance.

So my point is. You balance the game... ok? What map did you balance it on, how did you actually test the changes? Ok neat that is balance on 1 map, and completely broken on another, and irrelevant on 4 others. Now how do you expect map makers to address the pool? With the balance in flux? 1 second a map will be great, the next iteration it will be shit, and so on and so forth.

Now take that, throw the community in, the abattoir of screaming retarded children. I don't know about you, but I don't need that stress in my life. To explain more dynamically, you will get people that want to help, truly they do, but are so poor in their social skills it comes out like "this map sucks, okw op" and that is the extent of their efforts, before they go back to 4v4 ai games. Then comes the arguments about how something that is irrelevant in 1v1 is suddenly completely op in 2v2.

I could go on for days and am just basically venting at this point, but I hope you get the picture.

I would help, really I would, but I don't see this ever taking off.


TL;DR this entire process will be like a tiger trying to eat its tail and will fail before it starts, not because of the people you named (although some could be to blame), but because of the game in and of itself.