[UKF] Fixing British artillery (not commander)

I made this post on the steam forums recently addressing the issues surrounding the Royal Artillery in game. Balance modders, casters, and those who work on balance patches take note, this needs addressed now if you ever want to see the British in 1v1. I don't want to see a mobile mortar. It's lazy.
This is gonna be a long post addressing issues with the UKF that people like to argue about:

Mortar Pit
Two 3 inch mortars with more durability and range than the Wher mortars. What's not to like? It's sationary. It costs 400mp. I'd still take the mortar pit over the GrW34 anyday. It's NOT an offensive structure. It was never meant to be one. It's a defensive structure. It outranges every other Mortar and the Leig. Nuff said. This structure endures a love hate-relationship with players on both sides of the front.
"It's stationary and has little survivability."
"It's too powerful and indestructible."
"It's great!"
"It makes me laugh when I see one built by my enemy. Insta-GG."
I take that as balance. Some UKF players like it and use it well. Some don't and cry. Some Axis players don't like seeing it. Some do and counter it well. It may actually be a L2P issue.
Anyway, the Mortar pit used to have different shell types available to it:
Light HE
Heavy HE
WP
Smoke
I propose these be re-added in order to make the mortar pit more appealing. It gives it a better support role. Maybe make it like the Sherman switches rounds.

Mobile indirect artillery
UKF has non-doctrinal mobile arty. I'll get to that soon. Some people think the UKF has no mobile mortars. Well observed, it doesn't. Outside of base units, UKF has the Sexton, which is good enough. The Land mattress as well. Neither of which come out very quickly. I've seen some players saying UKF should get a choice between a mortar squad or a mortar pit. The British don't need that: they already have a choice between mobile arty and something else. An overlooked upgrade that is meh compared to it's competitor. Artillery flares and the Ordance Quick Firing 25 Pounder Howitzers. These are your mobile arty units. Maybe not the best, but there you go. Infantry sections throw the flare wherever you want (except base sectors), 25 Ibers shell the area, job done.
The problem is that the 25 pounders are meh at best. And the medkit upgrade tends to be seen as better investment. And you're mostly right. I propose that some changes should be made. These changes have probably already been suggested:
Make the 25 pounders slightly more accurate OR
Make the Flare throw free but the cooldown slightly longer OR
Give them back the smoke shells they have the stats for as well OR
All of the above.

2 inch mortar
An (unlikely to be added) idea that has been mentioned recently is giving the Universal Carrier a doctrinal 2 inch mortar upgrade. For those that don't know, the 2 inch mortar is a very light mortar, not much more powerful than a rifle grenade. This upgrade, though interesting, isn't that good, given the other UC upgrades that are much more useful throughout the mid-to-early game. However, what about giving the Infantry Sections a 2 inch upgrade instead? Instead of getting Mills bombs, the IS have an Ost like rifle grenade, with maybe slightly more range or damage. I really don't like this idea myself.
And there you go.

TLDR Re-add different mortar pit shells, improve how 25Ibers fire or how the arty flare works or add smoke barrages to them, consider a rifle grenade-esque option for the Tommies.
I'll tell you right now, many UKF players will agree with me.

As a mostly British and OKW player here are my thoughts on the matter:

Only camping, sim-city and comp stomp Brit players like to use the mortar pit, the other part of the Army's player base likes to be more mobile and not camp most of the game.

It's a powerful tool if the fight is in it's zone, if it's not, then you can go fuck yourself and your 400 man power invest, not to talk about the time wasted of your sappers building it while they could have repaired your UC or laid a couple of mines, THESE ARE JUST EXAMPLES.

While a mobile mortar team would solve the issue of the Axis complaining that it's OP and the none-campy Brit players (like me, mostly) that complain that the British lack mobile early game none-fuel, none-ammunition and none-doctrine in-direct fire units, which is the truth.

Saying that the British don't need it is like saying "Fuck your opinion, mine is the right one" which is bull, I'm not trashing it but I'm not agreeing with it either, as you should do the same, respect everyone's opinion, even if you don't agree with it.

All of the in-direct fire units and abilities you mentioned (Sexton, flares, base artillery, land mattress) are shit, and I don't think Relic would bother fixing those up and making them viable compared to just adding a unit and making them support units in a sense since as it stands right now, if you don't mass spam them, and the enemy is out of your mortar pit's reach, they're your main and basic in-direct fire units so they carry a huge burden on their shoulders.

The 2 inch mortar upgrade for the UC is a nice suggestion which I saw somebody already made on the Steam forums, however I think the 3rd slot for the IF upgrades should be a Recon one, which is already present in the game btw as far as I remember from my digging in the files a few months ago.

I propse it have the same "snipe" ability as in the first game and provide the Brits with more sight range or something like that, OR have the same abilities as in the UKF Alpha.

I agree with the different shell types for the mortar pit, the upgrade for the UC and the buffing of the base 25 pounders but I do not agree that the mortar pit is a better alternative to the mobile mortar crew tho, as well as the 2 inch upgrade for the IF.

I'd rather have a dedicated mobile mortar team than the IF having their own shittier rifle grenade sort of weapon that would take up 20% of the squad's firepower with it basically.

Guess you only skim read my post.
The mortar pit always has, and always will be, a primarily defensive structure, but that doesn't mean it can't have some uses when it comes to offence. Or did you forget it gets a creeping smoke barrage at Vet 1? I said re-add the other shells to help this. It should still be used primarily for defence, but it will have the opportunity to help in attacks with WP barrages.
The mobile mortar team is a dumb idea, you know why? Because the mortar pit ends up dead in the water and basically all Allied factions become carbon copies of each other at T1. BORING. I don't know about you, but I want my factions to play differently. They don't need it.
The mobile indirect fire they get is the IS infantry flares. All they need is a buff to make them more appealing and that's it, i.e free throw or more accurate barrage or different barrages. Tell me how changing the stats of 1 seldomly used upgrade to make it better is worse then just lazily Ctrl C, Ctrl v-ing the Wher mortar?
The 2 inch IS upgrade I said would be a doctrinal upgrade that replaces the Mills Bomb upgrade, not giving a new weapon to the IS. Did you know stats exist for a Lee-Enfield rifle grenade in game?

What I got from your reply is that you didn't fully understand what I said.
Buff IS flares and 25pdrs to make it a more reliable 'mobile' indirect fire at T1.
Give Mortar pit different shells it used to have to make it a more variable role in the UKF's arsenal, but it should still remain primarily defensive.
Don't give 2" to UC, it's other upgrades would scale throughout the game, the extremely low damage of the 2" would not.
Create a doctrinal upgrade that replaces Mills Bombs with 2" Mortar in Infantry Sections. These light mortars function like a slightly longer ranged rifle grenade that can be fired over high obstacles.
And please, keep your replies civil, yank.

the mortar pit costs 400mp but if you had to micro for what it does it's worth 2000mp

bullcrap piece of shit unit

Its one of the most Op unit in game...for its price.

Question: what do u get for 400mp in other faction?
> u wont get 2 mortars
> u get a ober
> u get 1,5 standard infantery unit

Which fightpower have this mortar pit? i get a equivalent power from 800manpower.
try to make such dmg and stay vs enemy fire with other mortars.

Its clearly to cheap for what u get.

same think with bofors....30gas and 300 manpower is a joke.

What do u get for 300gas and 300manpower? u wont get two 222s.

But the bofors has the power (surival, dmg, wiping potencial) from 2 ostwinds/ centaur and a pz4.


the price/ power is clearly to strong on this units.

#The_Less_Autofire_Doom_Cannons_The_Better

Its one of the most Op unit in game...for its price.

Question: what do u get for 400mp in other faction?
> u wont get 2 mortars
> u get a ober
> u get 1,5 standard infantery unit

Which fightpower have this mortar pit? i get a equivalent power from 800manpower.
try to make such dmg and stay vs enemy fire with other mortars.

Its clearly to cheap for what u get.

same think with bofors....30gas and 300 manpower is a joke.

What do u get for 300gas and 300manpower? u wont get two 222s.

But the bofors has the power (surival, dmg, wiping potencial) from 2 ostwinds/ centaur and a pz4.


the price/ power is clearly to strong on this units.

Jesus Christ, STOP FOCUSING ON THE MORTAR PIT. I'm talking mostly about giving the UKF mobile indirect fire by improving the use of the 25pdrs and the artillery flares.

Jesus Christ, STOP FOCUSING ON THE MORTAR PIT. I'm talking mostly about giving the UKF mobile indirect fire by improving the use of the 25pdrs and the artillery flares.

I thought you said most British players would agree with you, guess not.

And yes, I do believe Relic would rather lazily copy-paste the wehr mortar once again instead of bringing back the mortar pit's different shell types AND changing a couple of stats for the IS flares and base 25 pounders.

You get 2 rabbits with one bullet, meaning the complaints of both more mobile oriented British players and calling for a nerf Axis players AND giving the Brits a capable early game mobile in-direct fire unit, something which the flares coupled with the base 25 pounders WILL NEVER BE.

They require an upgrade for the IS, meaning munition, and time and then for the IS to get into suicidal range of the enemy's position to launch the flare, even 35 range is still pretty close for most things.

It's primarily meant to scatter enemy units and area denial, meaning it buys you a few secs of the enemy not approaching from that area/direction, it's not meant to be used as as mobile fire support.

And lastly, it requires your buildings to be kept alive, and that's not going to happen with the enemy constantly harassing your base structures, now is it?

And finally, ASYMMETRICAL BALANCE DOES NOT WORK, it never did, doesn't and never will, get that through your thick skull. And I'll keep repeating it until I die.

Updated thread title be be less ambiguous.

Updated thread title be be less ambiguous.

This post is about British artillery in general, not the mortar pit. Please re-edit it to reflect this. And you say my title was ambiguous. I suppose it was.

Alright, then it's redited.

Alright, then it's redited.

Thank you, I apologise for my cheek. The people in this thread only seem to read what they want to read. Thank you again.

Thank you, I apologise for my cheek. The people in this thread only seem to read what they want to read. Thank you again.

Don't worry, I have a thick skin. And that's the same on forums the world over.

Base Howitzer/Flares:
There's plenty of space to improve it. Not gonna expand on this.

Mortar pit:
-Reduce auto attack range to 80/90

-Reduce cooldowns on barrage
-HE barrage is the current barrage. Keeps the present stats with the benefit of having the 115 range.
-Make smoke a vet 0 barrage
-Introduce any of the following barrage (which could be the vet1 ability or just keep smoke as the vet1):
---A) Light HE barrage: 40/60 damage per shell, low AoE, SU levels of RoF, but with 140 range (vet3 ISG has 140 on barrage). A barrage meant to dislodge garrison or force moving a static positions.
---B) WP Barrage: 2 salvos (4 shells), slow RoF (time between each salvo) and big range (115/130). Again meant as an antigarrison/static position. Non lethal (brings units to 1HP).

-Reduce cost of mortar pit to 350mp
Concept 1:
-Split brace into 2 abilities with shared cooldown:
---Brace 1: reduces damage from explosives and ballistic weapons
---Brace 2: reduces damage from small arm fire and flame weapon
Concept 2:
-Mortar pits is as resilient as now, but crew will eventually die if healing is not applied (not sure if possible). Flame weapons will kill the crew faster than the mortar pit itself (unless they use brace).

Note: this is just a mock up idea, which doesn't have a deep thought on how the interactions with commander abilities nor time consuming would be to implement.

TL;DR: Reduce performance on automatic fire and give more options for player input. Reduce mp cost but open up more ways of dealing with it.

Base Howitzer/Flares:
There's plenty of space to improve it. Not gonna expand on this.

Mortar pit:
-Reduce auto attack range to 80/90

-Reduce cooldowns on barrage
-HE barrage is the current barrage. Keeps the present stats with the benefit of having the 115 range.
-Make smoke a vet 0 barrage
-Introduce any of the following barrage (which could be the vet1 ability or just keep smoke as the vet1):
---A) Light HE barrage: 40/60 damage per shell, low AoE, SU levels of RoF, but with 140 range (vet3 ISG has 140 on barrage). A barrage meant to dislodge garrison or force moving a static positions.
---B) WP Barrage: 2 salvos (4 shells), slow RoF (time between each salvo) and big range (115/130). Again meant as an antigarrison/static position. Non lethal (brings units to 1HP).

-Reduce cost of mortar pit to 350mp
Concept 1:
-Split brace into 2 abilities with shared cooldown:
---Brace 1: reduces damage from explosives and ballistic weapons
---Brace 2: reduces damage from small arm fire and flame weapon
Concept 2:
-Mortar pits is as resilient as now, but crew will eventually die if healing is not applied (not sure if possible). Flame weapons will kill the crew faster than the mortar pit itself (unless they use brace).

Note: this is just a mock up idea, which doesn't have a deep thought on how the interactions with commander abilities nor time consuming would be to implement.

TL;DR: Reduce performance on automatic fire and give more options for player input. Reduce mp cost but open up more ways of dealing with it.

Interesting. I can agree with these changes.

Mortar pit: Maybe 90/100 attack range? Since it still sorta needs a slight advantage in range since it's stationary.
I like both ideas of new barrages. In the beta, WP was mixed in with the standard barrage, so maybe make it a passive Vet 2 upgrade? During a barrage, 2 WP shells (1 from each mortar) are mixed in. However, a WP barrage sounds fun.
350mp sounds good, though maybe reduce to 370-380mp to prevent it becoming too cheap for what it does. Or just keep it at 400mp.
The first concept sounds interesting, it could be applied to all emplacements.
The second concept sounds good as well, however, the pit can't be abandoned, so the crews die with the emplacement. I imagine it can happen, though it doesn't work currently given how Brit emplacements work.
These changes would be welcomed.
However, I'm wondering, how would you improve the arty flares and the 25pdrs; without changing how they exist in game?

My wish is to have pyrotechnic sections throw down smoke from the base arty because building the pit for smoke is sometime too costly and dangerous.

Also as arty is heavily based on RNG and wipes it is very unlikely to be consistent enough to be used. How about changing large caliber arty(not only british) to become an indiscriminate area wide suppress/pin platform while reducing it's AOE wipe potential. Therefore say if you have arty and ground troops, the arty could pin the troops for easy kill after the arty barrage is over, which enemy players could intervene by retreat/moving out of the cirle than a 0.5s cheese wipe. This means reducing the AOE damage of the arty but if the arty rounds does unfortunately hits bang on the spot, then too bad... RNG hates you.

Just for the Royal artillery doctrine, I think a one man forward observer unit would be nice(using one of the unused asset of the British) where it has a skill to fire the base arty and smoke without having flares dropped on the area replacing the coordinated barrage ability. The arty fire is so slow that it will be hardly more OP than any of the rocket arty barrages but it will be less obvious than a big red thing on the point. So having the FO + valentine map hack + sexton could be a potential combo.

Flare is difficult to change:

Flares prevent to tech medic supply. Medic supply is necessary on all IS and it's one of the reason flare isn't used.
- Need either to have both of em be techable on a same IS OR to have the flare moved from IS to sapper so it doesn't prevent IS to have medic.

Pyrotechnics Supplies cost 40 ammo to unlock Coordinated Fire on 1 IS.
- Having it on only 1 IS limit its use, could be nice if it was techable in a Tier so any IS could use it ((like soviet Molotov/atnade).

Flare is very hard to balance cuz it got no clear function (or earlier alcohol and that clock saying it's 5.40 AM are failing me). Throw it at a Battlegroup Headquarters and it won't do anything (for 85 ammo we can't expect much anyway, if it did then it would be too cheap) so it's not made to deal with it. 85 ammo to help clear 1 garrison is ... you know. (I never tried to use it dat way cuz getting close to dat mg42 with dat ONE Pyrotechnics Supplies squad is impossible and stupid. If the purpose was to clear garrison then the range would be longer since tommies aren't meant to get close to anything (legend say some ppl pay 150MP/15F to make it so nothing ever get close to em). Same for Aera denial: how to get dat one tommies martrix those fallshirmjagers and sneak behind mgs to throw dat flare on the pak wall? How are those dat red smoke & slow 25 pwnders supposed to do anything to avoid dis flanking pnzrgren to do his job ? For flare to be decent at something it need to have a bigger range OR to shot and land faster OR to deal extra damage against base building such as aggressiv (advanced) Battlegroup hq.

45 ammo is a grenade price, a weird price for 1 and then 2 25 pwnders to work. too expensive to just red smoke tommes feet but too cheap to do more than what a grenade could do.

----

I mortar pit must be far enough from the front line to not get smashed but somewhat close to shot when fight arise somewhere (400 mp doing nothing kind of hurt). So I build it atleast so it can shoot at a MG42 securing middle VP. On big map it's kind of advanced, so it's exposed. UKF not having other non-doctrinal arty leave big responsibility to mortar pit, we need it do have the shit done. it's stronger on maps and weaker on others (with size). when its owned by a ieig or any long range arty is kind of saddening cuz it can't be helped (sayin it can be dealt with pretty easily). repairing while it's being shot at often lead to losing sapper. maybe if sapper could repair while inside it ? sound broken yet I don't see how to deal with ieig if i can't get it with infantry. Kinda lost my shit when I saw a ieig doing more kill dat my mortar pit (active for the same amount of time)(saying mortarpit is not op). when exposed it need to be protected and all. it's not such brain dead unit (it is if opponent do not try anything against). it may feels strong cuz it didn't need much direct micro but it cannot move so we can't let anything get close of it.

hard to balance such a thing. maybe reduce autoshoot range and make the barrage without cooldown, so it make the same thing it does but with micro ? they idea of having the crew die but the pit not destroyed too easily is nice (crew dead lose vet but mortar pit more durable). if so maybe lower stats but increase vet bonus so it's weaker when vet 0 but strong vets ? the sim-city commander make the balance harder impossible cuz what's not op without will be with.


dunno if I make sense, too tired to reread. don't throw rocks at me cuz I didn't play ukf in a while so some of my sayin could be outdated. (was like ukf grade 87 or smth)

Flare is difficult to change:

Flares prevent to tech medic supply. Medic supply is necessary on all IS and it's one of the reason flare isn't used.
- Need either to have both of em be techable on a same IS OR to have the flare moved from IS to sapper so it doesn't prevent IS to have medic.

Pyrotechnics Supplies cost 40 ammo to unlock Coordinated Fire on 1 IS.
- Having it on only 1 IS limit its use, could be nice if it was techable in a Tier so any IS could use it ((like soviet Molotov/atnade).

Flare is very hard to balance cuz it got no clear function (or earlier alcohol and that clock saying it's 5.40 AM are failing me). Throw it at a Battlegroup Headquarters and it won't do anything (for 85 ammo we can't expect much anyway, if it did then it would be too cheap) so it's not made to deal with it. 85 ammo to help clear 1 garrison is ... you know. (I never tried to use it dat way cuz getting close to dat mg42 with dat ONE Pyrotechnics Supplies squad is impossible and stupid. If the purpose was to clear garrison then the range would be longer since tommies aren't meant to get close to anything (legend say some ppl pay 150MP/15F to make it so nothing ever get close to em). Same for Aera denial: how to get dat one tommies martrix those fallshirmjagers and sneak behind mgs to throw dat flare on the pak wall? How are those dat red smoke & slow 25 pwnders supposed to do anything to avoid dis flanking pnzrgren to do his job ? For flare to be decent at something it need to have a bigger range OR to shot and land faster OR to deal extra damage against base building such as aggressiv (advanced) Battlegroup hq.

45 ammo is a grenade price, a weird price for 1 and then 2 25 pwnders to work. too expensive to just red smoke tommes feet but too cheap to do more than what a grenade could do.

----

I mortar pit must be far enough from the front line to not get smashed but somewhat close to shot when fight arise somewhere (400 mp doing nothing kind of hurt). So I build it atleast so it can shoot at a MG42 securing middle VP. On big map it's kind of advanced, so it's exposed. UKF not having other non-doctrinal arty leave big responsibility to mortar pit, we need it do have the shit done. it's stronger on maps and weaker on others (with size). when its owned by a ieig or any long range arty is kind of saddening cuz it can't be helped (sayin it can be dealt with pretty easily). repairing while it's being shot at often lead to losing sapper. maybe if sapper could repair while inside it ? sound broken yet I don't see how to deal with ieig if i can't get it with infantry. Kinda lost my shit when I saw a ieig doing more kill dat my mortar pit (active for the same amount of time)(saying mortarpit is not op). when exposed it need to be protected and all. it's not such brain dead unit (it is if opponent do not try anything against). it may feels strong cuz it didn't need much direct micro but it cannot move so we can't let anything get close of it.

hard to balance such a thing. maybe reduce autoshoot range and make the barrage without cooldown, so it make the same thing it does but with micro ? they idea of having the crew die but the pit not destroyed too easily is nice (crew dead lose vet but mortar pit more durable). if so maybe lower stats but increase vet bonus so it's weaker when vet 0 but strong vets ? the sim-city commander make the balance harder impossible cuz what's not op without will be with.


dunno if I make sense, too tired to reread. don't throw rocks at me cuz I didn't play ukf in a while so some of my sayin could be outdated. (was like ukf grade 87 or smth)

You made some sense, you started to slur towards the end there though.
The 25 pdrs have many roles, it's almost like the GPMG of artillery. It does a lot, just doesn't excel in anything. Area denial, garrison clearing, supporting an attack, attacking OKW base buildings. It's good at attacking base buildings, especially if they're clumped together. I once killed 2 OKW trucks with the 25pdrs and 2 Sextons firing on them. Since one was a medic HQ, I was able to get some infantry as well. I don't get a lot of the gripes with putting a Tommie squad in danger, surely you need to put them in danger anyway in order to get LOS for a normal barrage? Of course, this puts them in less danger then putting them in grenade throw range. So maybe the throw range could be increased to at least half the squads LOS? And the throw range increases with Vet. I considered making the flare like the medical supplies, you buy once, the use is free. However, that might require a longer cool down.
Looking through all the weapon stats on stats.coh2, it turns out lots of stats exist for the 25pdr, such as creeping barrages, smoke barrages, a flare barrage, and AT shells. Whether these are just from CoH remains to be seen, however, some of these would increase the use of the howitzers greatly, like the smoke barrages and maybe the creeping barrage. Plus, remember that the sniper can get the flares too, and they can throw much further than IS. I think maybe not change how you get the upgrade (Flares or medkit) (I only give the medkit to 1 IS because he can heal everyone around him if needed.)

@ Pluralitas, yeah, a smoke barrage would be nice. Stats do exist for them, so it is a possibility. The IS would need two flares though with a shared cooldown. I unfortunately can't see what you're suggesting being implemented, because that means the 25pdrs will be the most effective as they fire the most shells over the largest area, while other guns like the LeFH don't as much. Unless you made the 25pdrs unique in that regard, which may be an awkward idea. I'm unsure about the forward observer officer, maybe it could get a commander of it's own, rather than removing the conc. barrage from the Royal Artillery, since it can fire in the fog of war and is one of best uses of those howitzers.
Maybe it could be like: either Reconnaissance Regiment or Royal Horse Artillery Regiment.
1-2cp: Infantry Sections Mills Bombs get replaced by a rifle-grenade-like 2 inch mortar, that gives increased range and is able to launch over obstacles.
3-4cp: Forward observer Officer: Functions like the wehrmacht artillery officer, armed with Lee-Enfields.
4-5cp: Valentine light tank: not unlike the Royal Artillery one, comes armed with a HE mortar as well as a smoke mortar (stats for the that actually exist)
6cp: Stand fast: emplacements repair themselves
10cp: Either artillery barrage or an AVRE.
Though I would like to point out that I'd rather see the 25 pdrs improved as they are rather then getting another commander.

@ Pluralitas, yeah, a smoke barrage would be nice. Stats do exist for them, so it is a possibility. The IS would need two flares though with a shared cooldown. I unfortunately can't see what you're suggesting being implemented, because that means the 25pdrs will be the most effective as they fire the most shells over the largest area, while other guns like the LeFH don't as much. Unless you made the 25pdrs unique in that regard, which may be an awkward idea. I'm unsure about the forward observer officer, maybe it could get a commander of it's own, rather than removing the conc. barrage from the Royal Artillery, since it can fire in the fog of war and is one of best uses of those howitzers.
Maybe it could be like: either Reconnaissance Regiment or Royal Horse Artillery Regiment.
1-2cp: Infantry Sections Mills Bombs get replaced by a rifle-grenade-like 2 inch mortar, that gives increased range and is able to launch over obstacles.
3-4cp: Forward observer Officer: Functions like the wehrmacht artillery officer, armed with Lee-Enfields.
4-5cp: Valentine light tank: not unlike the Royal Artillery one, comes armed with a HE mortar as well as a smoke mortar (stats for the that actually exist)
6cp: Stand fast: emplacements repair themselves
10cp: Either artillery barrage or an AVRE.
Though I would like to point out that I'd rather see the 25 pdrs improved as they are rather then getting another commander.

Smoke is the one i think is the most possibility to be implemented as the pyro upgrade is useless now. The time to first shell is too long and the damage is lacking. Aggressive, mobile british play could get bog down by german defensive plays and pyro smoke itself would make giving one section the pyro upgrade desirable for a aggressive british player.

If my idea of a suppressive arty bombardment comes, then conc. barrage will be too OP, which the FO comes in. The FO have a limited range to "call in" arty barrages (or smoke) like pyro sections but without dropping flares. FOs should be able call in when in range regardless whether the target location is in sight or not and the barrages should include not only the base arty but other arty in range as well like the german arty officer. This allows synergy between the valentine's IR maphack/early warning flares and sextons. Sneaking in a FO after spotting a enemy hardpoint for a barrage could cause havoc behind enemy lines and forcing a mass retreat. It would be OP if the shells landed like a stuka barrage but fortunately for the 25pdrs, the time between shells is long enough that retreating through the barrages will allow enemies to survive.

Yes, my idea is to give EVERY large caliber arty (M1 75mm is not a large caliber arty) and arty barrages (scavenge arty, assault arty for example) suppression while reducing the AOE damage pe shell, this does not affect air delivered bombs such as the RAF air supremacy or flame barrage (SU) however. While other guns like LeFH have a even longer delay between shells, they could still be used as a AOE indiscriminate suppression platform. Firing those arty into enemy base in hope for cheesy wipes will be reduced in effectiveness largely and the arty would be far better used on enemy positions. 2 rounds landing around a unit should pin it in open or red cover, forcing the enemies to place units in yellow or green cover defensively or they have to call off an attack by mass retreating depending on its use. The arty suppression however should affect every unit (friend of foe) in the vicinity and running your troops or tanks in to crush enemies are possibly highly rewarding but very risky.

This is just my 2 cents, dont take it too seriously........

Smoke is the one i think is the most possibility to be implemented as the pyro upgrade is useless now. The time to first shell is too long and the damage is lacking. Aggressive, mobile british play could get bog down by german defensive plays and pyro smoke itself would make giving one section the pyro upgrade desirable for a aggressive british player.

If my idea of a suppressive arty bombardment comes, then conc. barrage will be too OP, which the FO comes in. The FO have a limited range to "call in" arty barrages (or smoke) like pyro sections but without dropping flares. FOs should be able call in when in range regardless whether the target location is in sight or not and the barrages should include not only the base arty but other arty in range as well like the german arty officer. This allows synergy between the valentine's IR maphack/early warning flares and sextons. Sneaking in a FO after spotting a enemy hardpoint for a barrage could cause havoc behind enemy lines and forcing a mass retreat. It would be OP if the shells landed like a stuka barrage but fortunately for the 25pdrs, the time between shells is long enough that retreating through the barrages will allow enemies to survive.

Yes, my idea is to give EVERY large caliber arty (M1 75mm is not a large caliber arty) and arty barrages (scavenge arty, assault arty for example) suppression while reducing the AOE damage pe shell, this does not affect air delivered bombs such as the RAF air supremacy or flame barrage (SU) however. While other guns like LeFH have a even longer delay between shells, they could still be used as a AOE indiscriminate suppression platform. Firing those arty into enemy base in hope for cheesy wipes will be reduced in effectiveness largely and the arty would be far better used on enemy positions. 2 rounds landing around a unit should pin it in open or red cover, forcing the enemies to place units in yellow or green cover defensively or they have to call off an attack by mass retreating depending on its use. The arty suppression however should affect every unit (friend of foe) in the vicinity and running your troops or tanks in to crush enemies are possibly highly rewarding but very risky.

This is just my 2 cents, dont take it too seriously........

Maybe... it's an interesting idea, though I doubt axis and other allied players will like having their arty barrages turned into suppression platforms. What about super heavy arty like Railway guns, would they preform differently?