Including more people in the balance team

@budwise

it is a great shame that it did not work out when coh2 was new. but your allegation and implication that this patch wont be any different than usual relic patches, which some of them were darn good, is bonkers. miragefla and the machine both play the game to quite high rank and both cast so they observe, too. also having preview mod by the community members who are VERY active on the forum is something new.

it is damn shame and almost puzzling that relic did not do this prior to WPC, then the top players wouldve been more willing to participate.

also this baseless accusations of the three modders using "not in the scope" to dismiss differing views are down right laughable. also vast number of ppl thinking they are more unbiased and think they know better ppl for the balance is just wow. instead of trying put forth an argument via constructive arguments or vids, they are bitching and moaning.

i wondered why relic kept this hush hush but now i know why.

Cause the community is entitled as fuck? That is probably why.

This train came and left the station years ago. Relic has pissed off so many motivated outstanding community members over the years who spent hundreds of hours doing testing in private balance betas in private balance forums and all left frustrated and angry. Relic would then a year later gather up the next round of fanbois who didn't know any better and off they were to redo the cycle. Seeing as it looks that COH2 is coming to its EOL I imagine they want to put this game to bed like we did with 2.602 vCOH but they shoulda just helped ups make it amazing years ago instead.

I solute you guys I really do, but knowing stats and modding tools is how Relic balances this game in the first place and we all see how that works. Hell, if they had listened to us back in Beta we might be having a COH2 Dreamhack right now! Relic has had countless chances to do this right already and I think you guys are probably the last hope there is because I imagine most of the top level players have moved on, burnt out, or are just plain not willing to work with Relic again.

Also correct.

My best bet on CoH series is that Relic is already working on CoH3 which will merge CoH1 and CoH2 best aspects and with support from modders and top players the game will finally be welcomed at esports scene

@budwise

it is a great shame that it did not work out when coh2 was new. but your allegation and implication that this patch wont be any different than usual relic patches, which some of them were darn good, is bonkers. miragefla and the machine both play the game to quite high rank and both cast so they observe, too. also having preview mod by the community members who are VERY active on the forum is something new.

it is damn shame and almost puzzling that relic did not do this prior to WPC, then the top players wouldve been more willing to participate.

also this baseless accusations of the three modders using "not in the scope" to dismiss differing views are down right laughable. also vast number of ppl thinking they are more unbiased and think they know better ppl for the balance is just wow. instead of trying put forth an argument via constructive arguments or vids, they are bitching and moaning.

i wondered why relic kept this hush hush but now i know why.

I'm not saying they are not qualified nor that they arent right for the job. I'm saying that 3 opinions of decent/good players are not on par with 20 top players and veterans which is what was brought to the table in the past. The only difference is now Relic has thrown their hands up because they have no manpower to fix the game and they're actually letting it happen. I won't say the Miragefla patch was bad, but as far as the state of the game it probably did actually get worse. Considering this is probably the final patch of the game and we're still toying with major game mechanics means this is probably not going to end well. Just my 2 cents.

To consider my opinion baseless is also laughable. It's called experience and I have a lot of it with this franchise and Relic. Disagree all you want but all of my opinions have a huge fucking logical reason behind them.

I'm not saying they are not qualified nor that they arent right for the job. I'm saying that 3 opinions of decent/good players are not on par with 20 top players and veterans which is what was brought to the table in the past. The only difference is now Relic has thrown their hands up because they have no manpower to fix the game and they're actually letting it happen. I won't say the Miragefla patch was bad, but as far as the state of the game it probably did actually get worse. Considering this is probably the final patch of the game and we're still toying with major game mechanics means this is probably not going to end well. Just my 2 cents.

To consider my opinion baseless is also laughable. It's called experience and I have a lot of it with this franchise and Relic. Disagree all you want but all of my opinions have a huge fucking logical reason behind them.

For the modders and people still working on this game, don't take this to heart, but it is true. If you have been around for a decade or more and been remotely active, this is most likely the case. We have a chance to fix the game, yes, will it happen against all odds? I would like to think that it would, but according to the past ways things have been handled... most likely not. At the end of the day this will most likely be ammunition for relic to go "See, we gave you a chance to balance the game, and what did you do with it?" type of argument. Hopefully that is not the case, but it most likely will be in the long run of things.

All we need to do is try and stay positive, but taking going for each others throats is only serving to further to prove that relic can say "told you so" at the end.

well, I'd like to be in balance team or whatever you call that, but not as a mod tools user but as a advisor maybe?

Well you can be now, make a post saying what you think and back it up with arguments, link it to GG or Mr Smith on stream or here and they will consider it. OR you could play some matches on the patch and help test things about. I'm willing to play it with you.

Just give relic and this balance team a chance.

No need for speculations imo.

Do you write to Noggano ?

@budwise. i was only laughing at you implying that this patch process is just same as other patch processes so it wont do shit. also using your logic, i dont know how you can gauge the state of the game since you are not top player.

Do you write to Noggano ?

Oh boy

ok ok i volunteer

Listen to Budwise. Man is speaking the truth

This new approach needs our support. Previously, all this balancing stuff would have been done in the shadows. Nice job balance team.

@budwise

I'm all for negative feedback, but what did you intend to solve with your first comment?

From my time on this site, since I was a non-user and non-staff, I've had tremendous respect for you, so let it be known that the fact that I'm saying this is in no way an attempt to slander or attack you.

The issue I have with your post is that this isn't new news. The community developers most didn't join without knowing this, they joined in spite of this.

@budwise. i was only laughing at you implying that this patch process is just same as other patch processes so it wont do shit. also using your logic, i dont know how you can gauge the state of the game since you are not top player.

You don't need to be "top player" status to know if the game is fucked or not. In COH1 Kolaris and Rocky were the top community balance guru's. Rocky was pretty damn good player but never won a tournament afaik. Kolaris certainly wasn't elite, but knew absolutely everything there was to know about the game and how to balance it. He was the driving force behind the best balance patch Relic ever delivered (Budwise was also a part of that group). It doesn't take very long at all to go from rusty vet to reclaiming high rank, judging the state of a patch is pretty easy for legacy community members.

@budwise

I'm all for negative feedback, but what did you intend to solve with your first comment?

From my time on this site, since I was a non-user and non-staff, I've had tremendous respect for you, so let it be known that the fact that I'm saying this is in no way an attempt to slander or attack you.

The issue I have with your post is that this isn't new news. The community developers most didn't join without knowing this, they joined in spite of this.

Trust me I whole heartedly commend them and their efforts. I myself have been on that side of the the coin many times over the years and only once did it ever amount to fuck all, and that was when COH1 went EOL and they actually let us fix it with 2.602. And even then they still managed to fuck up that patch in several ways that were fixed in the final private beta. RELIC LEARN TO REGRESSION TEST YOUR CODE FFS!

So what I see here is COH2, going EOL just the same way, and Relic is finally giving up control like they did for vCOH. The problem is, there's still MAJOR game mechanics that are being toyed with. We had an army of top players for 2.602 in comparison to the tiny handful there is now, and everything we did was ultra fine tuning and finessing and there was tons of useful discussion with Relic devs and top players together in a joint effort. This balance attempt is still lopping off limbs and trying to reattach them elsewhere. COH2 is such a giant mess I just see it as too late to be attempting these monumental changes and succeeding.

That said, I give a giant solute to the peeps attempting it but I have good reason for being skeptical that they'll unfuck this game in 1 patch, and I dont imagine there will be many more patches after this. I'd do my usual and volunteer and rally the troops but with an 8 month old now I just don't have the time. Good luck gents!

Well you can be now, make a post saying what you think and back it up with arguments, link it to GG or Mr Smith on stream or here and they will consider it. OR you could play some matches on the patch and help test things about. I'm willing to play it with you.

Not necessary to play, i already know what's broken now, and before this patch

Not necessary to play, i already know what's broken now, and before this patch

Feel free to add me on stream and enlighten me with a message on there, or alternatively make a post on here.

done.

Or wait, maybe writing it here is better option.

So i'll start with very basics, which are base sectors, structures, teching, for now the USF and Brits have easiest and cheapest teching options than any other, you don't need builder unit, you dont need to waste your unit time to get this done and as for USF you get free special unit and i ask now, why the hell all factions can be like this? just make bases more less similar to each other, what i think is best: circled base with techs inside that builds with one click and no other unit is necessay for that, add 2 artillery pieces in base sectora that are unlocked after some higher techs are unlocked(Lefh for ostheer, sFH for OKW, others are known) and make them usefull, give munitions costs to artillery barrages and make them more efficient (that's kinda lame that a game about WW2 has a very low usage of artillery)

Another game changer are weapon racks, USF is actually a top faction now due to this, every shit unit can grab Bar or zook and become powerful (remember Price RE with Bars blob? they were cheaper than ostruppen and could rekt every other enemy squad), that's why all factions should have access to weapon racks (weapons format: AT weapon[zooks, AT rifle, 1 weapon slot], LMGs[1 weapon slot], Flamer[takes all weapon slots], semi auto rifles[grants to semis, takes 1 weapon slot, not for USF and Brits]

Infantry types: I'd like to see some sort of more diversed infantry types, in terms of efficiency with standard weapons and grabbed from weapon racks
-conscripts(80% efficiency with grabbed weapons, units like soviets cons, volks and ostruppen)
-regulars (100% efficiency, grens, rifles, tommies)
-specialized (140% efficiency[LMGs can fire at move], some additional abilities, camoes or so, units like commandos, fallschirms, stormtrups, airborne)
-elite (140% efficiency, some way worse unit thatn specialized, units like PGs, Guards, obers, rangers)

vet 5 for all, and make them realistic, because im pissed of on some of the vets, i believe it's not historically accurate that veteran conscript gets promoted by Stalin and he gives him a gardening flare to fight enemy and with realistic vets i mean units will receive boosts in accuracy, received accuracy, cooldown, reload, HP regen etc (and each vet would grant each of it by like 5% up to 25% at vet 5 and 7% or 8% for USF and soviets, to reflect their early game sucking into late game terminators)

Cost increased for call-in tanks, if required Techs are not build (like in miragefla mod where you pay 50% more if you don't have a tech required)



And my opinion about the current winter patch: Stuart, T-70, Stug E fixed (nerfed and now they are fixed)

Ostheer - mostly nerfed, 222 is now rubbish, it was like one of main units and now it sucks, Stug E nerfed, huge nerf to snipers(and cost is the same, makes sense), some Puma nerf, small pio buff, conclusion: ostheer sucks even more

Soviets - Penals nerfed and removed flamer upgrade, guards nerfed and cost increased (I lol'd at this), T-70 nerfed, Su76 barrage nerf, conclusion: soviets could be playable, but mostly they suck

USA - not much changed, some mortar nerf, Stuart nerf, some minor changes to vehicles, nothing about rifles smoke nade, rifles performance, conclusion: still OP

OKW - possibly the best buff for sturmpios, no vet required for meds and costs halved, med truck is not necessary, some minor changed to early vehicles, luchs kinda nerfed, conclusion: i believe the early game got buffed a lot

Brits - some Piats nerf, Bren carrier possibly buffed a little, Aec survivability increased and vs infantry got nerfed, not much, conclusion: possibly same as before, slightly changed

vet 5 for all, and make them realistic, because im pissed of on some of the vets, i believe it's not historically accurate that veteran conscript gets promoted by Stalin and he gives him a gardening flare to fight enemy

+1

also LMFAO