A survey about the new 222

So many OSTHEER problems revolve around this single unit. Their lack of non doctrinal counter to highly mobile generalist light tanks, their lack of early game AI vehicles etc.


So please subscribe to [url=http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=805715284 http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=805715284]the preview mod, test the unit and share your opinions.

Preferred testing methods;

• 1v1 Against a friend. preferably USF: Using this mothod, your USF opponent should avoid engagements early game and just defend his fuel and rush the stuart.
  
• Test the unit using Janne's CheatCommandII Use the Speed up toggle ability, add resources and then build the unit from the T2 building (down't spawn the 222). Then try to evaluate its performance against the T70, Stuart and AEC. Also have a look at how it performs against infantry, especially against tommies and riflemen.
  

The core philosophy behind the balance mod is make it possible for factions to have a chance to defend vs light vehicles without having to field light vehicles of their own.

This is partly to help OST/UKF which only have a single vehicle. Making it mandatory for either faction to field a light vehicle would make them predictable, thus, too weak.

If you are pegging the strength of the OST faction solely on the performance of the 222, you haven't adapted yet.

Light tanks are highly mobile and can wreck ostheer on maps like kharkov, minsk and other large maps and thus solely relying on Tellers or paks or PGrens is not desirable.


Therefore Ostheer need a light tank of their own or any vehicle capable of countering the other factions' light tanks.


UKF didn't have trouble against light tanks, and now they don't even need one since the PIAT is definitely the best HAT in game in the preview mod.

Light tanks are highly mobile and can wreck ostheer on maps like kharkov, minsk and other large maps and thus solely relying on Tellers or paks or PGrens is not desirable.


Therefore Ostheer need a light tank of their own or any vehicle capable of countering the other factions' light tanks.


UKF didn't have trouble against light tanks, and now they don't even need one since the PIAT is definitely the best HAT in game in the preview mod.

I disagree. WM does not need a light tank, and they already have the ability to counter M20s, M15s, Stuarts, AECs, M3A1s, and T-70s.

A concentrated force of some Grenadiers, a Pak, a mortar, and a 251 Halftrack for reinforcement and extra DPS is brutally hard to counter. All you have to do is push on your enemy's cutoff with force, and you will force your opponent to commit light vehicles or risk losing the tech battle, as you can get out a P4 or an Ostwind soon after your enemy has fielded a light vehicle of their own. Just watch Gentlefox play WM.

If you want to use 222s to counter light vehicles, make 2 of them and use them as a reactionary force--wherever the enemy light vehicle attacks, you send in the 222s. Don't yolo-charge them in and keep them alive. The sheer HP pool and their DPM, combined with your infantry/team weapon support force your opponent to back off.

The Brits actually have issues with multiple light vehicles, such as 222 spam. One AEC can be taken out by a pair of 222s, while three 222s is a certain kill as long as you don't hit a mine or yolo into a 6-prd. Therefore, Brits actually have to play quite conservatively with their AEC 2 min after it hits the field, lest a 222 wolfpack take it out. For OKW, the Puma is a pretty good unit in keeping an AEC away.

The main idea is, if you negate the impact of of your enemy's light vehicle, then you have effectively stopped them from using it to gain a map control and tech advantage. Currently, the WM can do that, and the Winter Balance Preview Mod puts the 222 in a much more reasonable position. Previously it was overpowered, due to having such a low price.

Imo:
Problems with 222 in the patch are that it comes to late to counter Wasp,M3A3, UC and WC.

On the other hand it is too good against them killing them in a single burst.

Suggestion:
Reintroduce 221 keep the cost the same. Allow upgrade to 222 and/or add as different at the new cost.

Use target tables to reduce damage vs armored cars/WC

Well, the 222 rose to prominence after it got the health boost, but it didn't actually have an effective role until the advent of super Allied mortars, be it the USF mortar or UKF mortar pits. (You know the lessons NOT learned from the old soviet 120mm, which created the exact same gorramned situation.)

The 222 became Ostheer's best bet to handle light vehicle rushes because Allied indrect fire invalidates MG play, which makes it impossible to hold a PAK position. In many cases the mortars themselves prove to be more than enough for both the MGs AND the ATGs.

The more changes are made to the 222 to try and address specific issues with the meta, the less chance we're going to see a solution that works, IMHO. The damned unit is a scapegoat for the greater design issues.

Stuarts is all War-Phases Tank!

give them panzer 1 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Well, the 222 rose to prominence after it got the health boost, but it didn't actually have an effective role until the advent of super Allied mortars, be it the USF mortar or UKF mortar pits. (You know the lessons NOT learned from the old soviet 120mm, which created the exact same gorramned situation.)

The 222 became Ostheer's best bet to handle light vehicle rushes because Allied indrect fire invalidates MG play, which makes it impossible to hold a PAK position. In many cases the mortars themselves prove to be more than enough for both the MGs AND the ATGs.

The more changes are made to the 222 to try and address specific issues with the meta, the less chance we're going to see a solution that works, IMHO. The damned unit is a scapegoat for the greater design issues.

The USF super mortar got nerfed.

The USF super mortar got nerfed.

Well, yeah. Sorta.

It's only a mod at this point. Seeing how the mortar changed from preview patch to live match, I'll consider the jury to still be out on that.

I was only explaining how the 222 ended up being so important to the metagame. A nerfed mortar alone should really realign much of the metagame, which is what my ultimate point was.

I know the preview mod has a shorter range ostheer mortar clone. (Why they didn't just clone the soviet stock mortar and maybe shave 5 to 10 range off it, I don't know. Or use a 60mm version that was supposed to have been implemented in the first place...) But I dunno, Ostheer is hardly a gold standard of a faction, it's just the closest to a coh1 faction in terms of tier teching.

Well, yeah. Sorta.

It's only a mod at this point. Seeing how the mortar changed from preview patch to live match, I'll consider the jury to still be out on that.

Oh god whhhhhhhhyyyyyyy

Oh god whhhhhhhhyyyyyyy

As much faith as I can put into any community driven effort, the inexplicable problems that seem to work their way into every patch is... unsettling.

(Ghad just get the overtime approved or just bite the bullet people... Regression test this next patch for the love of...)

Hey, at least they are playtesting stuff before it's released into the wild....

Hey, at least they are playtesting stuff before it's released into the wild....

Well, the fact that it hasn't been touched after 2 updates seems the changes are final.


Or it could be, the unit is a low priority balance thing and will be readjusted in later days? That would make sense.

Not to mention the fact that fixing this AC is a pretty complicated process, much like the T3476, which had to undergo multiple different approaches and from my viewpoint, still isn't where it should be.


Let's wait and see.

Nerf all the light vehicle in WBP but keep buffing 222? It is simply op now.

Nerf all the light vehicle in WBP but keep buffing 222? It is simply op now.

You made a thread complaining about the Flamer Half-Track and now you're complaining about the 222 as well?

Seems to me like you're just bias, and don't want Ostheer to have any effective light vehicles.

You made a thread complaining about the Flamer Half-Track and now you're complaining about the 222 as well?

Seems to me like you're just bias, and don't want Ostheer to have any effective light vehicles.

You are just bias and don't want ally to have any effective light vehicles