Dear Relic, can I have a word please? (Russian history)

All my lols.

Digging your own hole.

I'm not the author of the video. I was more like to live in peace and shit. I've tried to reach the Relics and SEGA before things went wild.

Now, well, brace for another shitstorm.

Propaganda.

Seems some Russians learnt very little from the horrors of the USSR.

This stuff is parallel to some fringe German Neo-Nazi sentiments, and should be disregarded and shunned by any reasonable individual.

Propaganda.

Watch the review, I think you're going to change your mind.

Yes, I did change my mind.

I'm now more wary, suspicious and concerned about Russian social standards than ever before.

Gj. Digging the hole even deeper.

That review gave me cancer.

That's funny since I just happened to meet a person form Russia and spent some days socializing with her (dwelling into topics, from WW2, to education, to Putin, to Military Service, to the custom some Russians have of drinking before hopping into a flight) . My home city also welcomes hundreds of Russians every single week, and I've met several Russians in other countries, as well as people from Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan, etc., which have Soviet cultures and traditions.

None of them fit inside your proven marquee of attitudes and personalities. I've had the chance to meet, discuss and socialize with people from every single continent in the world, and all I have met is people being people, with opinions and differences. None of them fit a specific pattern.

It doesn't mean I liked every person, or understood every culture, but it wasn't something I would dare encapsulate into a single sentence or even paragraph...

Are you seriously trying to tell me tourists represent a population with accuracy?

Tourists are the educated upper middle class. They are a minority population. If somebody wants to visit another country, and has the money to do so, that usually means they are not nationalist, they are well educated therefore have a decent job, and do not fit in with the majority of a populace - i.e. lower middle and working class.

I have lived in 3 countries for a year or longer. People are people with slightly different cultures. No country is full of 1 type of person. Certain attitudes persist but when get to know locals the core features of being human are all there. At least from my own experience

People are people, but nations are nations.

There are wider gestalts of social conscience, than the individual.

France is not Germany. And Germany is most certainly not Russia.
Nor is Russia the USA. Nor the USA, like China.

I wish this thread would be moved or even deleted.

Hm, another person who had to sign on to point something out, some of the more vocal have pointed out about the Men of War games are more "balanced" but it feels like people are selectively remembering stuff. I have a love for Men Of War (and Soldiers: Heroes of World War II) so I am pretty shocked that nobody seems to remember how the plot for the Russian campaign went, after a pretty bad ass defense of train station (I swear that Relic played MoW too) our hero is wounded and even though he is made into a PoW he acts like a total bad ass:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lQ8Dm_11LE

He then escapes with the help of some Partisans bringing some important intelligence to HQ but the NKVD gets wind of this and they send him into a Penal Battalion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yS4ehgzWIM

Oh look, the NKVD are sending these men as a massive human wave directly into a MG42, letting them run through a mine field and then shooting anyone who tries to run! We should have MoW banned for being so offensive!

*sighs*
There are some problems with the CoH2 campaign, I think the whole problem comes from it trying to be anti-war but the plot is so weak people assume it being anti-russian. There are lots of western media that shows their armies less than positive light, for example one of the great war movies is Paths Of Glory:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPtVNDvwGMo

Showing off the meat grinder that wars can become, you may say "Hey but the French are not show killing their own" then its clear case you have not seen the whole movie, the movie is about 3 men being sentenced to death (even though one of them is a hero) and its a major plot point that the French General in charge wanted to to drop artillery on his own men for cowardliness but the battery commander refuses.

There are lots of issues with CoH2, most of them I feel have not been pointed out and I have to say this for now; you say the Germans are like the shark in Jaws but yet unlike the Shark in Jaws you see the shark killing people and being a threat to the town...

(also for some reason the youtube tags wont work...)

Why did this game provoke such a huge reaction, and none of the others did? Russians have been "bad" guys for quite some time now, yet this this is the one that started a fire. Clearly, it has to really fuck up for that to happen.

There IS a true reason and cause if they are doing it - to them - you won't ever understand unless you are in that position. Look, there is just isn't much you can do about it now, as what's done is done.

There was simply too much effort put into making the war seem brutal for Soviets without getting political or showing Germans (the story isn't about them.../sigh), and the game just did it all in a very, very wrong way.

Nobody is denying crimes that the Soviet Union committed against their own people, or the oppression against other countries. The game is not about that, as DEVs said - they didn't want it to be, it was about the soldiers, regular people.
Yet the campaign sums up the total horrors of the regime, and puts it on a mini, personal scale. It's like making a game and saying that Americans have no respect for human lives or rights based on civilian killings and spying programs. And that's what created the problem with the campaign.

On this forum, of course, the discussion goes into "no, what they taught you in YOUR history class is wrong, because what they taught in OURS is right" kind of bullshit. Every country pushes their propaganda and downplays everyone else while making themselves look grand. There is no winning here.

Then everyone brings up examples that don't hold any ground in the realm of WW2 Germany vs Russia content, which is what the campaign is supposed to be about, at least. "Ohhh you bad Russians after WW2, occupying territory for few years, tsk tsk", or "Americans, you bombed tens of thousands of civilians and then Vietnam and drone program and.."

And for these reasons, I also think this topic should be locked, as it's spiraling into the same hole over and over again. These topics will die down after the game has been out for a bit longer... that's when we finally can concentrate on the true reason we're here - multiplayer

History has proven the Soviets to be far worse than the Nazis. It's a shame we didn't eradicate the Soviet filth after the rest of the free world took care of the Nazis.

History has proven the Soviets to be far worse than the Nazis. It's a shame we didn't eradicate the Soviet filth after the rest of the free world took care of the Nazis.

Psycho;

Does your "history" leave out the Holocaust? Burning villages during their invasion? Those were the direct orders given to that army. Do you see a pattern?
Or is that in your terms the better alternative?

I wish this thread would be moved or even deleted.

I second this. Can someone moderate this? There's some pretty hefty insults getting thrown around.

@Thumbsup
Politics always seems to bring this out, fact is rarely an issue.


+1 to shutting this thread down.

Psycho;

Does your "history" leave out the Holocaust? Burning villages during their invasion? Those were the direct orders given to that army. Do you see a pattern?
Or is that in your terms the better alternative?

Oh boy! Let's bring up the Holocaust!

Funny how the Soviets killed far more than the Nazis did yet some people think that they should get a free pass. The only pattern I see here are Soviet apologists thinking they did nothing wrong when in reality they ended up being far worse than the Nazis did when all the smoke had settled.

But I'm really done arguing with you sub-human garbage. Your country is a third world shit hole now and is still being run by an ex-KBG dictator who locks people up for having an opposing opinion.

Somethings never change.

@Thumbsup
Politics always seems to bring this out, fact is rarely an issue.


+1 to shutting this thread down.

+1 to putting this nigger back in Africa

What on earth do you even mean by that? i see some sort of attempt at an insult yet it just feels... meh.

Care to explain what you mean

I've followed this thread from the first page to the 15th page and I can say for sure that this is cancer in its purest form. The whole 'game' aspect of this damn game has been pretty much lost in petty politics and emotional (subjective) history lessons.

People need to get a grip. In todays world one should be able to grab a PC game and enjoy it 'as is' with a grain of salt regarding its 'authenticity' (a word I f****** hate by now). Games are games, they are made to entertain their target audience, or let's just say 'people' to remain inside the grey area. Games are not true, movies are not true, even books that aren't history books are not true (though some are debatable even in that categery.. bad LU, grey area! Grey!). I could write an (ugh..) authentic book about world war where some group does something bad to the other group... aaaand so on.

You know what? This thread made me lost any willingness to participate in this discussion and I don't even want to finish this point I was going to make, because it would be pretty much certainly fruitless. People who understand this is a game will enjoy it as is, and those who do not.. well, they can go do whatever they will, I certainly don't care anymore; and I'm pretty sure Gabe Newell doesn't either.

Oh boy! Let's bring up the Holocaust!

Funny how the Soviets killed far more than the Nazis did yet some people think that they should get a free pass. The only pattern I see here are Soviet apologists thinking they did nothing wrong when in reality they ended up being far worse than the Nazis did when all the smoke had settled.

But I'm really done arguing with you sub-human garbage. Your country is a third world shit hole now and is still being run by an ex-KBG dictator who locks people up for having an opposing opinion.

Somethings never change.

Of course you don't want that to be brought up because it counters your argument.
And that is the only pattern you are seeing? You are so blind, learn to read before you post simply to vent out some anger.
Sub-human garbage? I don't even want to comment on that insult or your other petty outbursts, really, this is just making you look like a typical asshole. You are starting to fit the stereotype that the rest of the world has now.
Russia is not even my country so way to jump to conclusions there!
Oh, I also do not support Putin, but that's nice of you to take the argument there anyways!