okw need call in tank busters.

I believe there are panzerbuchse (anti tank rifle) squads already in game that could be used.

No need to bloat the roster by adding another squad just for AT duties. Either let Sturms have both upgrades (which require more munitions, plus ups the risk of squad wipe loss), an/or give Volks an AT Rifle upgrade that locks out the StG44 when selected.

Either way, Rak43 needs to be fixed before we consider other changes. People want other AT options only because the current options are broken or suck.

I believe there are panzerbuchse (anti tank rifle) squads already in game that could be used.

This would be nice - even if OKW only got a new commander similar to Soviet's Tankhunter so that you have a situational commander that you can use if you're getting hit by light vehicles hard. Trying to counter light vehicles with only Raken's can be pretty brutal if you're on the back foot already.

If the AT Rifles were a standard upgrade that locks out STGs it would have to be implemented so that the AI power is noticeably different between the two options so that the AT rifles aren't a no brainer.

Volksgrenadiers weapon slots need to be worked on too. They can´t pick up anything when they are equipped with their STGS.

OKW had elite doctrinal anti-infantry units to make up for their low DPS. Not that the core AT infantry turns AI and everything gets wonky. That's why if you want to implement the competitive mod, you need to implement all of it IMO.

I had recommended limiting schrecks to the number of trucks in play. 3 schrecks max.

This would be nice - even if OKW only got a new commander similar to Soviet's Tankhunter so that you have a situational commander that you can use if you're getting hit by light vehicles hard. Trying to counter light vehicles with only Raken's can be pretty brutal if you're on the back foot already.

If the AT Rifles were a standard upgrade that locks out STGs it would have to be implemented so that the AI power is noticeably different between the two options so that the AT rifles aren't a no brainer.

this+1.
donno why somebody think this offer for just killng tanks .nono this faction doesnt have enough various type of units , isnt it boring volks volks...raketten always?
or isnt it funny that usf has AT and m20 for crew bazooka in early?
although raketten suck but im sure most of okw players know how to use it correctly
Show Spoiler
AT is AT with static position at range and anti tank infantry is different type for different situation, imo engneer has its duty somewhere put mines or sweep make structure.....and cant summon everywhere to fight vs tanks
so if the game is so easy that u said about volks+raketten forever why soviet make guards or we see always rifle+zooks or ukf with piats? dont they have AT?

I had recommended limiting schrecks to the number of trucks in play. 3 schrecks max.

Can we do the same for lmg riflemen and lmg tommies? Lets say 4 riflemen on the field, only 4 bars available for the USF player etc.

Shrek on Sturmpio gets you to vet two and 33% faster repair speed.

Shrek on Sturmpio gets you to vet two and 33% faster repair speed.

True if they are actually fighting vehicles. Vet 5 Sturmpioneers are probably the most efficiant anti infantry unit at close/medium range in the game. That used to be valid against USF before heavy cavalery came along which everyone and my grandmother chooses. How do you deal with mines/demos? Every other faction has stock mines. I never understood why the most expensive engineer unit is the only one that cannot carry a mine sweeper on top of a weapon upgrade. Must have been the Zeitgeist of OKW Schreck blobs being the bane of our existence to be eradicated forever.

True if they are actually fighting vehicles. Vet 5 Sturmpioneers are probably the most efficiant anti infantry unit at close/medium range in the game. That used to be valid against USF before heavy cavalery came along which everyone and my grandmother chooses. How do you deal with mines/demos? Every other faction has stock mines. I never understood why the most expensive engineer unit is the only one that cannot carry a mine sweeper on top of a weapon upgrade. Must have been the Zeitgeist of OKW Schreck blobs being the bane of our existence to be eradicated forever.

I don't understand why they are limited to only one shrek as well. Its a 300mp unit that gets and upgrade that makes it "aight" against tanks, but takes 1/4th of the ai. Why not give it 2 shreks? Or let it take both the shrek and the sweeper? Even if you have to switch between the two (and pay for both) at least then you can actually *use* sturms as AT vs heavy calv.

I don't understand why they are limited to only one shrek as well. Its a 300mp unit that gets and upgrade that makes it "aight" against tanks, but takes 1/4th of the ai. Why not give it 2 shreks? Or let it take both the shrek and the sweeper? Even if you have to switch between the two (and pay for both) at least then you can actually *use* sturms as AT vs heavy calv.

Fully agree with what you're saying.

Relic has gone so there will be no new balance fix...

Am i allowed to point out that the OKW has the best Tank destroyers wich are the puma and the JagdPZ

The shreck on the sturm is more of a scarecrow, a raketen counters vehicles effectively if it's in a garison (best firing arc and harder to outmanoeuver)

anyway, you can say "what if i haven't got fuel"
if you managed to loose your early game as OKW at a point you can't get a Puma when a stuart is out, it's your own god damn fault

Puma rush = outrunned by infantry?

well, kind of but honestly, if you know how you will play, then, pick a doctrine in consequence, the PZfus + offizier or the jaegers can help you

this can seem out of the topic but it looks like it's a balance tread, and balance has to be seen as a whole

Am i allowed to point out that the OKW has the best Tank destroyers wich are the puma and the JagdPZ

Just because the JP4 has the highest dpm of any td in the game, it does not necessarily mean that its worth going for every time, as its drawbacks prevent it from really shining. It's similar to the stug, where on paper the stats make it look OP, but the poor maneuverability, lack of a turret, and impotence against infantry balance out its incredible dpm. The JP4 is what the Panther should be, but isn't. A specialized beefy AT unit that can deal with any tank the allies throw at it, with the caveat that it can barely do jack shit to infantry.

The Puma on the other hand is really not in a great spot right now. Although it can (with vet) deal with larger tanks, it is incredibly fragile and (like the JP4) has no AI to speak of what so ever. Can it do its job really well? Yes, but it is by no means a solve all unit, and going for it requires enough fuel that it precludes grabbing a light vehicle that can actual deal with USF's infantry. Its opposite number, the Stuart on the other hand is a brutal unit that maintains usefulness throughout the game, has good ai (due to the stupid accuracy on main gun), and can *stun* tanks (which will result in the death of the fragile Puma or more sturdy Luchs). Right now the Puma is an inferior stuart that OKW is forced to go with (as they have no other tools that can effectively deal with tanks early on. due to the shittyness of the raketten and the fragile expensive sturms).

The shreck on the sturm is more of a scarecrow, a raketen counters vehicles effectively if it's in a garison (best firing arc and harder to outmanoeuver)

Are you serious? Actually getting a shrek on sturms against the Heavy Calvary USF meta? Even if the don't go that particular commander (which they usually will in 1v1s, as it is one of the best USF has), its still ineffective in its role as AT, seeing as you only get one shrek and is extremely fragile due to only having 4 squad members. Not to mention that the squad is to expensive to get multiples of in a normal 1v1. Also I think I have seen a raketten garrisoned once in all of the years I've played coh2. Given the option I would instantly remove its ability to garrison anything or retreat just to be able to reverse move the damn thing.

anyway, you can say "what if i haven't got fuel"
if you managed to loose your early game as OKW at a point you can't get a Puma when a stuart is out, it's your own god damn fault

I don't think anyone is arguing that scenario at all.

Puma rush = outrunned by infantry?

well, kind of but honestly, if you know how you will play, then, pick a doctrine in consequence, the PZfus + offizier or the jaegers can help you

Which is why Scavenge is picked in like 70% of competitive games as OKW. During the warpaint tourney I think it actually had an 80% pick rate in OKW, it compensates for OKW's issues. You shouldn't have to be forced to pick a doctrine specifically to be able to survive a normal game, that's just poor design.

this can seem out of the topic but it looks like it's a balance tread, and balance has to be seen as a whole

To be honest I think your missing the point here. The issue is not that its *impossible* to play as OKW, just that in a normal game vs USF, you have to go a very specific build order against a relatively flexible opening that requires better play than your opponent to be on an equal playing field. This is a result of the relative power of USF squads in the mid game (using weapon racks) and the inability to counter said squads, as you are punished for not going the puma, in the form of the stuart as OKW has no other effective AT until it hits T4 (please don't pretend that the raketten is a good AT gun, just because it can be frustrating to play against doesn't mean that its good).

Assuming both players are of equal skill, the OKW player will have an inferior army through no fault of his own, due to the way OKW is currently structured.

OKW had elite doctrinal anti-infantry units to make up for their low DPS. Not that the core AT infantry turns AI and everything gets wonky. That's why if you want to implement the competitive mod, you need to implement all of it IMO.

im talking about lack of type of main units....
and about elite doc u said , which can deal with penal flamers in early to mid ? also late

im talking about lack of type of main units....
and about elite doc u said , which can deal with penal flamers in early to mid ? also late

Yeah it's the penal vet man. 30% increased accuracy, and then 30% increased accuracy AGAIN.

Yeah it's the penal vet man. 30% increased accuracy, and then 30% increased accuracy AGAIN.

yeah and then guards join them fast
totally okw has lack of variuos type of unit

Hm. ok.

Schrecks on okw is op.

piats/ zooks / are ok on usf/ukf?

Why?

USF and UKF have one of the most potent anti tank hunters tanks in game...

they get the most potent infantery too...the most potent indirect fire too

the get one of the best heavy tanks too..

@ relic: pls push the allies more..they dont get enough nice stuff yet...pls make them more OP...