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Biggest Concern for COH 2

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OnkelSam
29 Nov 2012, 13:02 PM
#21
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jump backJump back to quoted post29 Nov 2012, 12:56 PMpionr

Edit: and i agree with OnkelSam. The upcoming change in sniper mechanics is not necessarily good and will lower the skill cap even further.

Umn, i didnt say that the sniper change will have this effect. I was arguing that lowering micromanagement in general is not a good thing. I cannot judge yet whether the new sniper mechanic is less or more micro intensive.
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Imperial Dane
29 Nov 2012, 13:15 PM
#22
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@Onkelsam: Well i think that might be a bit too.. narrow view. Micromanagement can be one way to stand out. But in a strategy game. I would think Strategic or tactical capability would be another way of displaying skill.

If not, then the question becomes if one is playing a strategy game at all. At least that would be my point of view. And you are free to disagree just as i an free to disagree with your view :)

As for the sniper thing. Well it just changes that you can't walk them around in the bloody open. It changes their usage and requires some more tactical foresight in their usage.
The Propagandacast
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OnkelSam
29 Nov 2012, 13:31 PM
#23
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jump backJump back to quoted post29 Nov 2012, 13:15 PMImperial Dane
@Onkelsam: Well i think that might be a bit too.. narrow view. Micromanagement can be one way to stand out. But in a strategy game. I would think Strategic or tactical capability would be another way of displaying skill.

If not, then the question becomes if one is playing a strategy game at all. At least that would be my point of view. And you are free to disagree just as i an free to disagree with your view :)

My point of view was not to reduce a strategy game to the micromanagement level.

I totally agree that strategy and tactics are an essential component as well. What i am saying is, strategy and tactics are already in a dominating role if we look at COH1. Micromanagement is already reduced to a minimum, comparing it to games with a different approach (like Starcraft). It is on such a low level that you can basicly play at a very high level with just 50 CPM or even lower. That's nothing!
In this regard, i am of the oppinion that you should not reduce micromanagement in COH2 any further, because in that case it would be no factor anymore at all. But you need all components, including micromanagement to have enough parameters that can seperate players of different skill levels.
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Imperial Dane
29 Nov 2012, 13:56 PM
#24
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I suspect i am at least thinking of something very different from you when we are talking micromanagement being what ought to define good from very good players. So think i will refrain from talking about that anymore :P

As for snipers. One of my favorite changes to be honest. Never liked the whole walking around invisible thing. Counter sniping was never fun, always a chore and quite frankly forced your attention away from the entire battle.. Just because of one unit that could move around invisibly.

To me, that was not right. Plus seeing most 2v2 matches devolve into sniper spam and such .. Well would to me indicate that it's not quite right.
The Propagandacast
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Hux
29 Nov 2012, 14:19 PM
#25
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Hey Dane. I loved your casts man! your level of diction is fuckin' excellent to be honest.

I share his thoughts on snipers. time and time again i've had to write of soldiers in good cover -who would of otherwise won -to try to countersnipe. I don't profess to be a great micro manager myself, but having to effectively stop what your doing just to play a sniper mini game just doesn't seem a natural part of the game to me.
I would suggest that a sniper's line of sight (especially with the new FoW system, truesight, in effect) that their range be increased in a straight line exponentially but with a narrower arc of fire. Similar to a field gun, Pak, etc.
To compensate for this 'turning them into an emplacent weapon' I would have them with no set up restriction in terms of movement but when they are set up -as opposed to moving -their accuracy gains a hefty increase

Having said that, I DO really enjoy the feeling you get when you are able to send a man deep into your opponents territory and scout shit out. Cause a bit of havok.

So I dunno, maybe just make it so they only camo in cover?
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Imperial Dane
29 Nov 2012, 14:22 PM
#26
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Well that is how it works atm, they only cover in camo. And that will probably apply to other units as well. SO again, no magicians on the battlefield. Nor ones that can cloak an AT gun and move it :P

And i think i read something about soviet snipers also gaining other abilities, some recon related, either flares or recon runs. And also AT upgrades. So snipers could be turned more into specialist units.

And glad you enjoy the channel Lord Lovat :)
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Heathen
30 Nov 2012, 00:22 AM
#27
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you are missing the point, a games success is attributed on creating lots of fun and interesting dynamics.

The sniper mechanic is unique to COH and leads to huge amounts of tension and exciting combined arms play. The volks spotting and mg play is a fun mechanic. Keeping a tank facing head on and dodging stickies is fun. what makes coh so much better than all other rts's out there is Coh has so many of these interesting dynamics. Just because you have poor micro skills, its still a great dynamic that is fun and adds a huge amount to CoH.

I'm hoping that the coh o terror officer makes a comeback.

What is stupid is changing the core fun dynamics, this is proven by OF removing snipers, mgs and mortars.

this was proven with free camo with coh o.

i just hope that relic dont have the same simplistic mindset that you have



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RagingJenni
30 Nov 2012, 10:54 AM
#28
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Nov 2012, 10:47 AMHeathen

The perfect example of this is red orchestra. For red orch 2, they went for realism over gameplay and the game was a dismal failure.


You mean the studios best selling game to date?
No spreading out, no fancy stuff, just smash through. Let's see how those degenerate sophisticates handle a healthy dose of pure unreasoning violence.
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IpKaiFung
30 Nov 2012, 12:18 PM
#29
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Didn't you know if just one person doesnt like a game its automatically a failure!

Hyperbole and histrionics are wonderful things. All these guys that claim to know what makes a fun game should just go and make one some time, it's never been easier with steam to get it published.

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nonsensei
30 Nov 2012, 12:54 PM
#30
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jump backJump back to quoted post29 Nov 2012, 12:01 PMOnkelSam
... COH1 was already extremely low on micromanagement. Reducing it even more will leave almost no room anymore to distinguish between good and great players.


+1

my biggest concern is that the game will be too easy...

and regarding snipers in CoH... imho, main reason for current metagame sniper dominance is how easy it is to inflict heavy manpower drain with minimum micro.
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MVGame
30 Nov 2012, 18:06 PM
#31
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Snipers only dominate against noob players who don't get a CS
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WiFiDi
30 Nov 2012, 18:10 PM
#32
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my second biggest concern for this game is they try to change the game core and fuck it all up.
:hyper: Failure is always an option. :crazy:
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MVGame
30 Nov 2012, 18:14 PM
#33
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I don't think they will fuck anything major up in coh2 it will just be balance shit and glitches.
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MaxKeiser
30 Nov 2012, 18:27 PM
#34
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The micro is coh was brilliant, if i can remember back 5-6 years ago going for my 1st online game of coh it seemed that hmg's in buildings were majorly op'd , then i found grenades, then i realised you could flank with a flamer, then i realised 1 rifle team could circle strafe the building killing the mg while avoiding fire as it tries to switch firing positions, it seems in the current meta game, wm players favor not having there mg's in buildings now. This is an example of what i loved most about coh and i hope players learning to cope with new mechanics leads to lots more funnys mishaps and moments of genius in coh2.
BUY SILVER, CRASH BANKSTERS.
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nonsensei
30 Nov 2012, 21:29 PM
#35
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2012, 18:06 PMMVGame
Snipers only dominate against noob players who don't get a CS


you have 50% chance to fail CS, and after that you won't get another chance vs anyone good.
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MVGame
30 Nov 2012, 21:33 PM
#36
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If you miss the CS your opponent will be more wary and u will also be able to drain mo from them.
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SemInt
30 Nov 2012, 21:46 PM
#37
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2012, 21:33 PMMVGame
If you miss the CS your opponent will be more wary and u will also be able to drain mo from them.

No, your opponents gets lucky and kills your counter sniper with his sniper (he didn't have his on hold fire) after your counter sniper misses.

Also, you can't deny that investing into snipers makes the game far more stale.
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MVGame
30 Nov 2012, 21:58 PM
#38
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Yeah it does make the game more stale but its part of it and it make Ami get all excited on SNF. :p
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Marcus2389
1 Dec 2012, 00:06 AM
#39
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And tbh it sucks because the game gets slower, the game was so much faster (and better!!!) before :P
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Heathen
1 Dec 2012, 04:02 AM
#40
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In its current state of balance, snipers are too integral to gameplay, they do need to be toned down especially for 2v2's. The luck factor is too much of a favtor but with the right balance, it would be even more amazing than it is now.

RO2 BY almost all accounts was a dismal failure and has been panned.

It was the highest selling game of theirs before it was even released because of RO1.

I played both heaps
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