Strategy discussion: The "No Volks" strategy

I have heard of this tactic before but never have I seen it being brought up and discuss thoroughly. Therefore, this thread will centralise around completely creating this tactic with build order, when to use and why should it be used. I will post an idea down (It will be 2v2 perspective mainly and it centralized around the Breakthough Doctrine) and only an idea, haven't truly tested so discussions and suggestions are required to improve:

1. Early game: 
- I think it would centralize around 2 Sturms and 2 Kubels: 1 Sturm to cap strategic building, 2 Kubel to deal damage and 1 Sturm to flank the enemies (if possible). Try to hold out to 2 CPs I guess (This part I really need help. I don't know what to do till 2 CPs beside from holding out). An offizier squad would be useful later on so get them too. When reach 2 CPs, pump out 2 Panzerfusilier squads and that basically is! The Kubel may not gonna survive pass mid-game stage so its only purpose would be help early and probably ninja-cap later.‎

2. Mid game: 
- You would want to go Mech HQ. Your army by far is a very potent anti-infantry force so you would want to have something that can deal with LVs. Therefore, going Mech would be good since you can get access to the Puma. 
- In my opinion, don't go Luchs if you're sticking to this strat. 2 Panzerfusilliers are potent enough to deal with infantry, especially with the offizier squad standing around so Luchs would be a little too much. Either get Puma (if enemy go LVs) or get the Stuka (if enemy has a heavy support-weapon play or being campy Brits). Extra MP should be spend on Rake (A pair would do great) or if possible, back tech and get the Med HQ for the healing and ISGs (if you want, probably 2 of them) or an extra Panzerfusillier squad wouldn't hurt.‎

3. Late game:
- Until now, your army would be very much potent in dealing with any threats, especially if you go both Med and Mech. So at this stage, I think you should just wait for the Jadgtiger. Sure you can go Schwere but then getting out medium tanks or wait for King would be way too costly. Just go for the Jadgtiger, to be honest. And if you do go Puma too before that (Try to keep it alive since as far as I know it is a key to success) then not much too worry about Allies tanks: Remember to mine the area close to your JT so when they attack, they'll commit right into the mine where their engies can't sweep or help save the tank. Then it's up to JT + Puma (If you manage to keep it alive) + at least 2 Raketenwerfers to finish off enemy tanks.
- The JT can also be a very good tool against heavy-emplacement play. Just don't commit your JT, protect it and let it snipe down emplacements slowly. Watch the campy Brits suffer!

That's pretty much itn, I guess. Someone or some strategists can go further in-depth to say what's good or what's bad in this strat or can it works or not. Anyways, feel free to discuss, change, suggest and help improve this strat. 

I'm very much appreciated all helps and contributions!‎

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Seems like a bit of a meme strategy. I get where you're coming from, i.e. viewing Pfus as a better investment than volks, but there are a few problems I see specific to this strategy.

• 2 kubels seems a dubious investment, they will die sooner or later, if the opponent has some kind of scout car then they won't last long at all. Why not make 1 volks squad and 1 kubel.
  
• Pfus are mostly better than volks but they have some drawbacks, being their inferior snare, their harder time getting vet (since volks can usually get vet1-2 against easy early game targets, plus the snare is a big boost), and their larger munitions burden.
  
• You are relying very heavily on your teammate to do the heavy lifting for most of the game. It's a big ask for them to supply early game suppression/long-range combat, mid-game map control, mid-late t3 vehicles.
  

Getting to 2cp shouldn't be too hard, using sturm pios aggressively in combination with building obstacles, deploying/upgrading HQ trucks etc. should get you there.

After the early game it's just standard 2v2 Breakthrough stat, no big comments there. The big challenge with such a strat is getting enough kills for the CPs while also conserving fuel. Sometimes it is worthwhile to build t4 for the map control, CP boost and flexibility it offers. The problem with breakthrough doc is as soon as your opponents see those pfus they'll adopt a strategy to counter it. If they are US or UKF they will make heavy use of LMG infantry which will outmatch your pfus in most instances.

Seems like a bit of a meme strategy. I get where you're coming from, i.e. viewing Pfus as a better investment than volks, but there are a few problems I see specific to this strategy.

• 2 kubels seems a dubious investment, they will die sooner or later, if the opponent has some kind of scout car then they won't last long at all. Why not make 1 volks squad and 1 kubel.
  
• Pfus are mostly better than volks but they have some drawbacks, being their inferior snare, their harder time getting vet (since volks can usually get vet1-2 against easy early game targets, plus the snare is a big boost), and their larger munitions burden.
  
• You are relying very heavily on your teammate to do the heavy lifting for most of the game. It's a big ask for them to supply early game suppression/long-range combat, mid-game map control, mid-late t3 vehicles.
  

Getting to 2cp shouldn't be too hard, using sturm pios aggressively in combination with building obstacles, deploying/upgrading HQ trucks etc. should get you there.

After the early game it's just standard 2v2 Breakthrough stat, no big comments there. The big challenge with such a strat is getting enough kills for the CPs while also conserving fuel. Sometimes it is worthwhile to build t4 for the map control, CP boost and flexibility it offers. The problem with breakthrough doc is as soon as your opponents see those pfus they'll adopt a strategy to counter it. If they are US or UKF they will make heavy use of LMG infantry which will outmatch your pfus in most instances.

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  VS

  ★★ §Royal Weapon§ ★★ Fuzzeh!

  Lacostel Nicolae Ceausescu

  Trying out No-Volk Strategy: Fail to blobs

  by: William Christensen map: Road to Kharkov

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I have't got a chance to face USF or UKF but I got a chance against Sov, and in the replay here, it's not that hard to hold out against them (I even push them out hard early game with 2 Kubels) but I see the problem that you have mentioned: Panzerfusilliers vet up slower, which make them them inferior to vet 3 Penal (In this case, a horde of 4 Penal squads ). I thought in theory, Panzerfusilliers should be better than Volks (Being 6-man and good long-range with 3 G43s upgrade) but the vetting up is what make them scale weaker than Volks. If only they vet up around the same speed as Volks, this strategy would work gloriously (AT least against Soviet), especially since I think Panzerfusilliers would deal with Penals better than Volks.‎

Another problem here is the intense micromanagement the 2 kubels require. I barely can micromanage 1! 2 seems almost impossible to me... I would lose them very soon.

I also saw some players to start with a kubel (for quick capping and avoiding battles)and then 2 more Sturmpioneers to have them as a blob of 3 total sturms. These 3 wiped 1-2 conscripts easily so you are not falling behind so much. But this is a matter of how good u micromanage them and how risky is the opponent not to retreat early his conscripts under sturm fire...

Another problem here is the intense micromanagement the 2 kubels require. I barely can micromanage 1! 2 seems almost impossible to me... I would lose them very soon.

I also saw some players to start with a kubel (for quick capping and avoiding battles)and then 2 more Sturmpioneers to have them as a blob of 3 total sturms. These 3 wiped 1-2 conscripts easily so you are not falling behind so much. But this is a matter of how good u micromanage them and how risky is the opponent not to retreat early his conscripts under sturm fire...

Going 3 Sturm would work if the battle happens in an urban area, in my opinion. Sure when charging through with 12 StG44s, literally no squad can handle that. However, to pull out 3 Sturm squads and turn into a group, it would take quite some time, consider the fact that 1 Sturm squad cost 300 MP and rather expensive to reinforce (30 MP per model). It would work well if you can set up ambush, but to be safe, 2 would work just fine. Also, 2 Kubels are not that hard to micro, especially in open area, just keep them firing at max range (They deal more damage at further range for some reason) and slowly backing away when they get uncomfortably close. 2 Kubels would usually drop Rifleman and Conscript models like flies.

I also rarely see people (Including myself) do this but with 2 Kubels, you can away destroy 1 at your base by yourself and scavenge it for 5 fuels which basically one-third of the fuel needed to open field medics. One extra reason to go 2 Kubels, I guess . ‎

Sturms are ok, but they suffer from diminishing marginal utility. It's too much to constantly charge at the enemy with. Sturms also become vet dependent very fast as more elite infantry hits the feild. Also you were kind of a dick. I still don't understand the increased utility of two scout cars over one when you could get volks.

Replays coming over the weekend.

Sturms are ok, but they suffer from diminishing marginal utility. It's too much to constantly charge at the enemy with. Sturms also become vet dependent very fast as more elite infantry hits the feild. Also you were kind of a dick. I still don't understand the increased utility of two scout cars over one when you could get volks.

Replays coming over the weekend.

Well, now look back, this kinda is a meme strategy, but I just want to try out what I once heard: A guy came up with the idea of No-Volk strat, but he never tell how. I even heard he went 4 Kubels, not 2. I already try to torn down the memeness of that strategy and try to make it a thing. But again, the future of this tactic is very much uncertain.

P/s: Anyways, thank you for willing to help me. I don't hate Volks (I love them actually... in a non-sexual way) but i'm just trying to see can OKW works out without heavily rely on normal 3 Volks build, and i'm being serious about this!‎

Well, now look back, this kinda is a meme strategy, but I just want to try out what I once heard: A guy came up with the idea of No-Volk strat, but he never tell how. I even heard he went 4 Kubels, not 2. I already try to torn down the memeness of that strategy and try to make it a thing. But again, the future of this tactic is very much uncertain.

P/s: Anyways, thank you for willing to help me. I don't hate Volks (I love them actually... in a non-sexual way) but i'm just trying to see can OKW works out without heavily rely on normal 3 Volks build, and i'm being serious about this!‎

So... do you still want a replay?

So... do you still want a replay?

Yes, I do. Still want to see a way to try out Volk-limited strategy.

although i used this strat a long time ago right now is possible to do but mostly in team game
btw right now is useless to build volks cause: 1 they have overlapping role with pf and early game they consume mp and reinforce cost kubel are better to flank mg and generally to harass the enemy line when they are useless i just bait enemy behind my front line and it get destroyed there for 5 fuel
btw i would suggest to build an officer for sturm and luch as first LV then get 1 stuka 1 puma ans anthoer stuka
and wait for jagd tiger with 2 SP 2 PF 1 mg 2 stuka 1/2 puma luch (both are 8 popcap) and jagtiger yuo have 100 pop cap if you fell safe for ai and have a vet 2 mg 34 get 2 puma instaed of luch

Against us and brit its possible.
But i think u should go firt to HQ med to heal and then direct to puma.
There no need to brig puma to the battlefield when every usf player take a stuart

I think u can hold 1 or 2 minutes without the puma.

I see 3 panzerfuzilier a better option and 2 raketten

Why wouldn't you want to volks? they're freaking op at all ranges lmao

Why wouldn't you want to volks? they're freaking op at all ranges lmao

I'll get you a replay one of these days.