Conscript weapon upgrade

In an attempt to get away from the HTD commander, I've been trying some of the others to mix it up. My problem, though, is that conscripts are worthless as actual infantry in the mid to late game. HTD gives them great survivability (probably too great), while the weapon upgrade gives them pretty good dps. Unfortunately, aside from picking that one commander, you don't get either of those options. Molotovs are near useless against decent players, which basically leaves conscripts as a "throw AT grenades at vehicles" platform. All while attempting to not die instantly to massed PGs and Grenadiers with LMGs.

So my balance suggestion is to move the weapon upgrade from a doctrinal ability to a global one. Make it require Vet 1 or building the T3/T4 building (either, not limited to just one). Increase the munition cost, maybe to 40. Then rebalance the HTD commander and throw another ability in there (with a HTD nerf because right now it's just too good against most players).

This would allow conscripts to have some AI value in the late game and give us incentive to pick something besides the "no brainer" commander that gives us HTD, better weapons, arty, and guards.

Interesting point about Cons firepower viability lategame in comparison to Grens with LMGs.

I think a better way to address this though, rather than a global PPSH upgrade which would (perhaps unduly) encourage Con spam, is by doing something about Penals.

They are not worthless, they are only worthless while their commanders are worthless idiots

I haven't picked a different Soviet doctrine for the past few weeks. Global upgrade would be sweet, but it should be 60 munitions, IMO.

Also, you have to also take inconsideration that cons are tier zero units. I don't think you should be able to expect them to go into late game.

Right now, HTD is insane when you think about. A 240 man power, tier 0 unit can 1v1 and win against pgrans, assuming they're not naded.

Can I get a second on Penals needing attention?

Can I get a second on Penals needing attention?

On a rare occasion I agree with Nullist, Soviet "Superior Infantry" (Penals) is anything but superior. The only viable late game soviet infantry is doctrinal and is a choice between guards or shocks.

Penals are great, they're just horribly overshadowed by how cost efficient Conscripts are. They put out nearly the same damage as PzGrens with more models and more abilities(They still do have the fire-on-the-move accuracy penalty, unlike PzGrens). They're just much more focused on handling infantry, which is probably why they're not used so much. They have no soft-AV which means that there's no point spamming them when the German is bringing out tanks.

They are not worthless, they are only worthless while their commanders are worthless idiots

Ok, so maybe "worthless" was too strong of a word. They certainly have their value. It also depends on the mode... I play 1v1 and 2v2, and conscripts are definitely more valuable into the late game in 1v1. But still, every other weapon upgrade is global (that I know of), so why is the conscript one doctrinal?

I don't really think that it would encourage conscript spam any more than we have now, since conscripts will still have their weaknesses... it just gives them a little boost in value at a muni cost. Once they nerf HTD, conscripts will be even less valuable than they are now.

But I'm fine with buffing penals instead, as Nullist suggested. Basically here's the situation I want to avoid... where German infantry is only counterable with doctrinal units. It takes me back to the old CoH: OF days where riflemen couldn't stand against the hordes of G43 wielding PG blobs, and it took Rangers to come in as a call in to pick up the slack against standard infantry. That's retarded. I don't want to see it happen here.

To be honest I'm not sure why they dropped the pragma of "rifle good up close, gren good at range" that worked so well. Especially with true sight, conscripts really could shine if their base close range effectiveness was increased and they became potent flankers. Oorah might need to be slightly tweaked, maybe moved to vet1 or something.

I was pretty sad when it was confirmed that grens and cons were identically balanced.

that grens and cons were identically balanced.

Actually Gren have a higher dps than conscript at close range.