Grenadier 4-man Squad: A thing of the past.

I understand where you are coming from, but wasn't there a whole discussion before about 4 man squads as well? Wouldn't it be better to separate these topics? I think we might be near a consensus on this topic, and it would be a shame if we dispel that consensus by spinning the topic in an entirely different direction.

Since we are already having the discussion regardless of the oversight of decision makers anyway, I think we might as well be as organized as possible in our debates.

I agree, just there are so many alternate suggestions to the original proposal that would justify multiple new threads, all correlating in terms of a holistic balance. Some of the strategists will maybe read this, pass it to whoever has a say in it or open a separate thread if they find it valid.

My conclusion to OP is that there are probably better ways to address the issue than adding a squad member but I'm not even sure if the majority agrees to that.

Opps I derailed the thread into weapon slot discussion. So sorry. I have other ideas to fix weapon racks, that don't involve limiting to one weapon pickup at a time; I don't think making them single purchases is a good idea. But that is a discussion for another thread.

Squad spread mirrored to tommies, LMGs limit to 1, there, infantry engagements fixed and balanced without crippling any faction in the process with silly suggestions that don't have a chance to appear outside of mods.

On topic: Fix squad spacing, fix USF mortar, work from there to see if they need any more changes.

RIP 1919s, nobody would pick them over 2 BARs anymore, and now Brits will be trying to steal a MG42 from Grens than buy their Brens... you gotta compensate those weapons if you want to make them single slot purchases!

I doubt M1919A6s would be useless, BARs need to be doubled to hope to compete with LMGs (and for a long while, didn't until Rifles got more RA from vet 3). M1919A6s are basically a clone of LMG42s and Rifles still have better vet than Grens, so Rifles with a single M1919A6 should still reliably beat LMG42 Grens with equal vet, just wouldn't schrekt them anymore.

I doubt M1919A6s would be useless, BARs need to be doubled to hope to compete with LMGs (and for a long while, didn't until Rifles got more RA from vet 3). M1919A6s are basically a clone of LMG42s and Rifles still have better vet than Grens, so Rifles with a single M1919A6 should still reliably beat LMG42 Grens with equal vet, just wouldn't schrekt them anymore.

Ok, I think I need to make another thread for this.

Ok, I think I need to make another thread for this.

Sowwy :-<

Sowwy :-<

No Problem

Updated link for the double weapon upgrade thread: https://www.coh2.org/topic/56416/opinions-about-double-weapon-upgrades/page/1#post_id567978

I doubt M1919A6s would be useless, BARs need to be doubled to hope to compete with LMGs (and for a long while, didn't until Rifles got more RA from vet 3). M1919A6s are basically a clone of LMG42s and Rifles still have better vet than Grens, so Rifles with a single M1919A6 should still reliably beat LMG42 Grens with equal vet, just wouldn't schrekt them anymore.

Pretty sure the LMG42 is better than 1919s but I might be wrong, if people think paying more for a better performance is wrong then I don't even know anymore, often I like double BAR more because you can chase and keep moving while LMG you need to stand still and can get hit hard by indirect fire.

So I haven't commented in a while. I looked through several of these posts but not all... This is what I gather. People mostly agree that Grens need greater survivability. But that this could be done with other methods like spacing.

I disagree with that statement. I think mainline infantry needs 5 men: for recrewing, for staying in the fight, for handling attacks from snipers, etc.

Not saying this is the only and last change grens and mainline infantry/mortars/double LMG etc need. But I do think grens need 5 men. It was set up like that early on for some weird asymmetrical balance between Soviet and Ostheer and it just doesn't work in a 5 faction environment. There's no nostalgia there. CoH1 had a different combat system so it's really hard to compare. I just don't see the nostalgia argument holding any weight.

And I'm no Axis fanboy. I'm a big time allied player but I sometimes venture into the dark side (usually when I'm playing in team games with randoms). I just know from playing the other factions that Grens feel super fragile and have much less utility than the other frontline infantry.

Pretty sure the LMG42 is better than 1919s but I might be wrong, if people think paying more for a better performance is wrong then I don't even know anymore, often I like double BAR more because you can chase and keep moving while LMG you need to stand still and can get hit hard by indirect fire.

has o.10/o.o1 more dps but rifle are 1 more men soo is fair

has o.10/o.o1 more dps but rifle are 1 more men soo is fair

Pretty sure the LMG42 is better than 1919s but I might be wrong, if people think paying more for a better performance is wrong then I don't even know anymore, often I like double BAR more because you can chase and keep moving while LMG you need to stand still and can get hit hard by indirect fire.

I made another thread for the double weapon discussion:
EDIT: previous link didn't work. This one does:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/56419/opinions-about-double-weapon-racks

has o.10/o.o1 more dps but rifle are 1 more men soo is fair

Really?
I've always felt the LMG42 outperforms the 1919 unless you double up.

Really?
I've always felt the LMG42 outperforms the 1919 unless you double up.

The DPS of the two squads is basically equal with the weapons (Grens' will be up by 0.5 DPS, definitely not enough to surely win), which is still to the Rifles' advantage with an extra model. Doubt Grens' 6% smaller target size is enough to compensate for that. Grens' vet 2 accuracy might be better enough for the edge at that vet (not actually sure, though), but there's definitely no chance at vet 3.

The DPS of the two squads is basically equal with the weapons (Grens' will be up by 0.5 DPS, definitely not enough to surely win), which is still to the Rifles' advantage with an extra model. Doubt Grens' 6% smaller target size is enough to compensate for that. Grens' vet 2 accuracy might be better enough for the edge at that vet (not actually sure, though), but there's definitely no chance at vet 3.

Well then, I guess LMGs having 2 slots would be fine then, with the small price adjustment I did in the infantry rebalance thread.

compare M1919A6 and Lmg42
long range acc Lmg42 lower than M1919A6
but Rate of fire Lmg42 outmatch M1919A6
dmg M1919 is 5 Lmg42 is 4

why nerf Some acc of dmg is not opinions ?
Example m1919A6 long acc 48% if try lower to 40-42% it ok ?

compare M1919A6 and Lmg42
long range acc Lmg42 lower than M1919A6
but Rate of fire Lmg42 outmatch M1919A6
dmg M1919 is 5 Lmg42 is 4

why nerf Some acc of dmg is not opinions ?
Example m1919A6 long acc 48% if try lower to 40-42% it ok ?

just citing the accuracy and rof does nothing when you don't have the calculated dps value.

check my signature. you will note that the calculated dps for the m1919a6 and lmg42 are nearly identically.

oh i see good data but
base DPS without vet and target size calculated is vet bouns problem now

Grens are fine.

Remember, ostheer is a defensive faction!

Since the original factions are stuck in the ''Ostheer defend, soviet attack!'' mentality, I see no grounds to change this.

but not anymore since WFA release

Grens are fine.

Remember, ostheer is a defensive faction!

Since the original factions are stuck in the ''Ostheer defend, soviet attack!'' mentality, I see no grounds to change this.

Wait did you just necro a thread you disagreed with to say that you disagreed with it. That's like punching a bee hive because you dislike bee stings.