Infantry rebalance needed

Relic should push axis and allied infantry closer to each other, as they buffed allied TDs to balance tank game.

Right now allied infantries way better.

Soviets the new penals provide a new opening, where you can reach T70 or T34/85 way faster. Guards (especially with veterancy) are so accurate, sometimes it feels like they would snipe infantry. IS and Riflemen with terminator vet and double LMGs can melt down any axis infantry unit.

WM is crying for elite infantry. Pgrens are not bad, but they cannot be compared to allied late game infantry performance. How could they, when they dont have any weapon upgrade (i wouldnt call G43 as an upgrade for them). So for WM, either reintroduce KCH as an infantry that can FUNCTION in late game, or provide optional double LMG upgrade for Pgrens as it was in CoH1 (either schrecks or LMGs).

As for OKW, i dont know why is it so hard to fix Obersoldaten. Just look at how they perform without their weapon upgrade and find a reasonable price that reflects their performance. The only axis faction that actually HAS an elite infantry unit, and its plain garbage. They are walking shell-magnets, randomly explodes and overpriced as hell. Must be fixed.

Either this or rebalance the whole double LMG and WFA veterancy madness..

We don't need any buffs to axis infantry.

All what needs to be done is to forbid picking 2 LMGs by regular infantry. If you find one on the field, sure, but not from racks.

Only Guards should have 2 LMGs (since they act like 1 LMG) and Paratroopers as they are elite (curently there is no reason to pick Paras LMG over Rifles LMG, damn Rifles are even stronger than Paras :/ )

Obers really need some work, without weapon upgrade they are more like brits IS.

Obers really need some work, without weapon upgrade they are more like brits IS.

Obers squad without upgrade have long range DPS ~ 14
LMG42 has DPS 9,2
So...

Allies have the strongest infantery in cost/ efficent
brits and usf can pick 2 weapon upgrades...so the can choose per squad between very good vs infatery or tanks....or good vs both.

german tanks was nerfed...plus the allies get buffed anti tank tools (Su / pershing/ piats / firefly / t10)

as axis player u need much more micro, more combine arms, tactic, luck and much more skill to play vs alli player.

exspacilly in 2v2...u need bad enemys.

Allies have the strongest infantery in cost/ efficent
brits and usf can pick 2 weapon upgrades...so the can choose per squad between very good vs infatery or tanks....or good vs both.

german tanks was nerfed...plus the allies get buffed anti tank tools (Su / pershing/ piats / firefly / t10)

as axis player u need much more micro, more combine arms, tactic, luck and much more skill to play vs alli player.

exspacilly in 2v2...u need bad enemys.

You don't look like someone who plays AT, so here you go, your huge imbalance:

Allies have the strongest infantery in cost/ efficent
brits and usf can pick 2 weapon upgrades...so the can choose per squad between very good vs infatery or tanks....or good vs both.

german tanks was nerfed...plus the allies get buffed anti tank tools (Su / pershing/ piats / firefly / t10)

as axis player u need much more micro, more combine arms, tactic, luck and much more skill to play vs alli player.

exspacilly in 2v2...u need bad enemys.

Sorry to say that but according to your player card, most problems you face don't have source in inbalance but somewhere between chair an keyboard.

Even with OP Allies (USF) you have 2v2 ratio 0.313

Love how there are 2 individuals who instantly jump on anyone that tries to talk reason about the blatant balance issues.

Love how there are 2 individuals who instantly jump on anyone that tries to talk reason about the blatant balance issues.

Tries to talk reason?

Did you read his posts? I went through them. Since post 1 he only whines how allies are OP.
I have even watched his replay, told him what he did wrong. Have you? Have you spent time to watch his replays and review it?
I have. I also have told him what he did wrong and he still whines how allies are OP.

So if they are so OP why he has 0.313 ratio?

Whines left and right since post 1 in balance section without smallest attempt of trying to visit strategy section. If that's "reason" then good for you.

So stop saying bullshit.

You don't look like someone who plays AT, so here you go, your huge imbalance:

The chart is much less meaningful than you would like it to be:

https://www.coh2.org/news/55039/coh2chart-and-its-worth

Anybody got any intel on the win/pick ratios of the current tourney?

Relic should push axis and allied infantry closer to each other, as they buffed allied TDs to balance tank game.

Right now allied infantries way better.

Soviets the new penals provide a new opening, where you can reach T70 or T34/85 way faster. Guards (especially with veterancy) are so accurate, sometimes it feels like they would snipe infantry. IS and Riflemen with terminator vet and double LMGs can melt down any axis infantry unit.

WM is crying for elite infantry. Pgrens are not bad, but they cannot be compared to allied late game infantry performance. How could they, when they dont have any weapon upgrade (i wouldnt call G43 as an upgrade for them). So for WM, either reintroduce KCH as an infantry that can FUNCTION in late game, or provide optional double LMG upgrade for Pgrens as it was in CoH1 (either schrecks or LMGs).

As for OKW, i dont know why is it so hard to fix Obersoldaten. Just look at how they perform without their weapon upgrade and find a reasonable price that reflects their performance. The only axis faction that actually HAS an elite infantry unit, and its plain garbage. They are walking shell-magnets, randomly explodes and overpriced as hell. Must be fixed.

Either this or rebalance the whole double LMG and WFA veterancy madness..

I agree that infantry units could use some adjustment but your proposed solutions would lead to roughly the same post but from an "Allies UP" perspective.

First, Panzergrenadiers are extremely potent. Each of their MP44s are roughly equal to a BAR before range 25 and they are more durable per model than either Infantry Sections or Riflemen at any veterancy level. They also have better offensive veterancy than either IS or RM and an LMG upgrade would allow them to completely dominate Allied infantry. The only thing Panzergrenadiers need is a different vet 1 ability.

Second, LMG-type weapons (BARs, M1919A6, Brens, Vickers Ks, LMG34/42s, etc.) should take up two weapon slots instead of their current one. This places a cap on the level of anti-infantry firepower by preventing dual-LMG squads even if a weapon is dropped. Some weapons may need to be adjusted (the Bren/Vickers K, for instance) to be worth their cost, of course.

Thirdly, Obersoldaten DPS, durability and cost should be slightly reduced and the Schwerer Panzer Headquarters (without an active flak gun) should be cheaper, with an upgrade to enable building of the Panzer IV and Panther and another to activate the flak gun. This would make Obersoldaten much less overpowering and ensure that they see more play while fitting with the reduced total DPS of Allied infantry.

Lastly, Penal Battalions and engineering units in general could do with a few changes but one of the greatest infantry balance issues are Royal Engineers. Here's a list of changes:

- Reduce or remove vet 3 reinforcement cost reduction
- Add an out-of-cover penalty for Royal Engineers using Brens/Vickers Ks
- Remove the bonus Vickers K from the Heavy Engineer upgrade
- Make the Mobile Assault Regiment flamethrower take up a weapon slot
- Make all minesweepers take up a weapon slot

Would you like a 5-man, triple-LMG (or LMG and two PIATs, etc.) and flamethrower equipped squad with better received accuracy than Panzergrenadiers and two armour? Would you like that squad to be the fastest repair unit in the game? Would you like that squad to eventually completely remove any need to use the more micro-heavy mainline infantry of your faction? Relic has a deal for you!

Allies have the strongest infantery in cost/ efficent
brits and usf can pick 2 weapon upgrades...so the can choose per squad between very good vs infatery or tanks....or good vs both.

german tanks was nerfed...plus the allies get buffed anti tank tools (Su / pershing/ piats / firefly / t10)

as axis player u need much more micro, more combine arms, tactic, luck and much more skill to play vs alli player.

exspacilly in 2v2...u need bad enemys.

If you'd like to get a better grasp on unit stats, I'll link a few sites below. I've always found that your argument is better received when backed up with stats.

- Firesparks' DPS Spreadsheet

- Cruzz's DPS Calculator

- Unit/Weapon Stats

- Unit veterancy guide

You'll want to download the modding tools to have the full picture of course but these should be enough for a basic argument.

solution : can upgrade 1 lmg x squad apart elite squad (cans still pick up weapon on the ground)
ober cost to 360 mp reinforce to 36 moved to md hq lmg 34 upgrade unlock at tier 4

or nerf received accuracy across the board for all inf unit

First, Panzergrenadiers are extremely potent. Each of their MP44s are roughly equal to a BAR before range 25 and they are more durable per model than either Infantry Sections or Riflemen at any veterancy level. They also have better offensive veterancy than either IS or RM and an LMG upgrade would allow them to completely dominate Allied infantry. The only thing Panzergrenadiers need is a different vet 1 ability.

Pgrens are great, but they are not as good as you paint them. They are very potent at mid and close range, but if allied infantry gets double upgrade and vet, they cannot keep up with them. An optional dobule LMG (locked behind T3 or T4) could make them as Obersoldatens should always been.

Second, LMG-type weapons (BARs, M1919A6, Brens, Vickers Ks, LMG34/42s, etc.) should take up two weapon slots instead of their current one. This places a cap on the level of anti-infantry firepower by preventing dual-LMG squads even if a weapon is dropped. Some weapons may need to be adjusted (the Bren/Vickers K, for instance) to be worth their cost, of course.

Ofcourse a direct limit to the number of LMGs could do the trick as-well. If there are no double LMGs, the buff i have mentioned above is not needed ofcourse.

Thirdly, Obersoldaten DPS, durability and cost should be slightly reduced and the Schwerer Panzer Headquarters (without an active flak gun) should be cheaper, with an upgrade to enable building of the Panzer IV and Panther and another to activate the flak gun. This would make Obersoldaten much less overpowering and ensure that they see more play while fitting with the reduced total DPS of Allied infantry.

Its not bad, but i would argue with the DPS reduction. The stock squad is already overpriced.. no one would ever try to use them without LMG. If you reduce their overall performance, OKW would end up a late game Riflemen squad. Except real riflemen already have like 7-10 minute advantage in veterancy. Also reducing the cost for the FlakHQ would be a bit risky imo.

Obers squad without upgrade have long range DPS ~ 14
LMG42 has DPS 9,2
So...

Units:

http://www.stat.coh2.hu/squad.php?filename=tommy_squad_mp [tommies]

http://www.stat.coh2.hu/squad.php?filename=obersoldaten_squad_mp [obers]

Weapons:

tommies
http://www.stat.coh2.hu/weapon.php?filename=tommy_lee_enfield_rifle_mp [lee enfield]

obers
http://www.stat.coh2.hu/weapon.php?filename=obersoldaten_mg34_lmg_moving_no_prone_mp [mg34]

http://www.stat.coh2.hu/weapon.php?filename=waffen_wlite_kar_98k_rifle_mp [98k]

Ober have super long build and reinforce time and higher pop for better weapons, is it worth it? Other stats are pretty much identical to tommies.

Obers in my expierence are pretty rare units, because they are not cost effective, I think bigger problem is long reinforce and build time.

See how you attack me for no reason but not agreeing with your point of view? That is why I am trying to say. You and another individual are simply budging your heads against anyone that doesn't have the same view as you. This isn't productive. Your suggestions made in this thread are fine and I agree with them, although I don't always agree with the points you make. Just change the attitude man, it doesn't help the game or the community..

See how you attack me for no reason but not agreeing with your point of view? That is why I am trying to say. You and another individual are simply budging your heads against anyone that doesn't have the same view as you. This isn't productive. Your suggestions made in this thread are fine and I agree with them, although I don't always agree with the points you make. Just change the attitude man, it doesn't help the game or the community..

But there is nothing to agree/disagree, there is nothing to discuss since he is not trying to post with reason.

I went through his posts, helped him with replay so I know what I'm talking about in terms of his reason. You probably saw one post here and said that he tries to talk with reason, while he is not.
Nothing to agree or disagree - just pure facts

From my point of view, the solution is easy. Make the 5 core infantry the same: 5-men squad, dealing the same damage with rifles, same accuracy and RA. Maybe cons could be 6-men squad.