How do you counter 222s with Penal/Guards? And LMG Grens?

I'm trying this strat lately where opening up with a conscript then 2-3 Penals and going 2 Guards into T-70. The thing is 222s are really hard to deal with, it's fine when i get my T-70 but until then i bleed a lot of MP trying to kill it. I just try avoid it until i get the T-70 but 222 can go around map denying harassments. That's the first issue.


Second one is that when i do survive until late game LMG Grens just wreck penals, I thought about a sniper to deal with this and maybe that's the answer but again the 222s just don't let it survive to late game. Every time i get a sniper to bleed him early, double 222s can just kill it and run away while guards can't even kill a 222.


So any ideas about how to deal with this?

TBH I've only used that strategy a few times, so I don't know much about how to do it perfectly. I think Barton has been doing it a lot so you could check out replays of that if you want.

I think in that mid-game stage you kind of need to play a little more conservatively till the t70 hits. Like, keep the guards together and only go for 2 vps + resources. The more you spread out, the more mp you bleed without getting any trades bc they don't lose mp since they're doing damage with 222s. Also, lay down mines. Set up flanks, etc.

If you want to play with a sniper, it's usually a good idea to have it playing around a mine so that if a sc gives chase it'll get fucked on your territory and you can finish. Or just have some guards around it at all times.

IDK about lmg grens, I usually don't have much of a problem bc guards usually match up well especially with dps. Maybe backtech to t2 late game for mgs and at guns? Conscripts definitely don't do well against lmg grens as well. Make sure to throw down some demos.

T3476s are pretty strong vs infantry after their buff and they're pretty low cost, so it might be worth getting those or a katy out depending on how they play.

Generally I think T2 is much safer against Ostheer since a fast 251 + 222 can be pretty nasty. I think AT Partisans pretty much hard counter 222's and since you go with a single Conscript just make sure you tech early AT nades to snare the 222 when you pop out of a garrison. Lately I have been struggling much more against 251 flamer rushes just before I get my Guards out. If you go Partisans, don't be afraid to got T2 to get Maxim's to support your Penals against the LMG Grens and Panzergrenadiers. LMG Grens are really only superior to Penals at max range. What maps do you tend to veto as Soviets?

Generally I think T2 is much safer against Ostheer since a fast 251 + 222 can be pretty nasty. I think AT Partisans pretty much hard counter 222's and since you go with a single Conscript just make sure you tech early AT nades to snare the 222 when you pop out of a garrison. Lately I have been struggling much more against 251 flamer rushes just before I get my Guards out. If you go Partisans, don't be afraid to got T2 to get Maxim's to support your Penals against the LMG Grens and Panzergrenadiers. LMG Grens are really only superior to Penals at max range. What maps do you tend to veto as Soviets?

I tend to veto Minsk,Kharkov,Semos Summer and Lost Glider, but then again you always get the same maps such as Crossing,Langres,Kholodny. And LMG grens are superior to penals even on mid range so with penals you're not gonna able to get them out of green cover/garrisons. And going AT partisans just for 1 222, will destroy your late game unless you tech with all that fuel...

And LMG grens are superior to penals even on mid range so with penals you're not gonna able to get them out of green cover/garrisons. And going AT partisans just for 1 222, will destroy your late game unless you tech with all that fuel...

+1
but partisans choice looks best since playing with t3476-shit in late is better than playing with 1 ATG vs 3 222/251.

"I think in that mid-game stage you kind of need to play a little more conservatively till the t70 hits."

- when 222, 444 or luch come rape your ass there is no such thing as conservative play. axis will just push you out of map or bleed you like mad. guard get kitted and are expensively bleeding.

"[...]only go for 2 vps + resources."

-how to even hold 2 vp and not bleed like crazy. ligh vehicule move faster than guard and have the initiative.

"Also, lay down mines. Set up flanks, etc."

-guard build usualy prevent using mines cuz burn alot ammos (wich aren't reliable anyway but can work out of luck). maybe it doens't if guard do not use nade ? set up flank doesn't help much against vehicule, if guard run toward vehicule then vehicule and infantry focus guard and force a retreat and possibly wipe (cuz flanking).

"If you want to play with a sniper, it's usually a good idea to have it playing around a mine so that if a sc gives chase it'll get fucked on your territory and you can finish. Or just have some guards around it at all times."

- no sniper if okw play a commander with spawn squad (and they have a lot of those). playing around mine doesn't hurt but vehicule will most likely passby it without even knowing. guard guarding sniper sound realiable tho, dat one is a good tip.

"Make sure to throw down some demos."

-Again ammo problem, maybe if your not using any ammo doctrine.

"T3476s are pretty strong vs infantry after their buff and they're pretty low cost, so it might be worth getting those or a katy out depending on how they play."

-t3476 is good ai but worse than a guard vs tank. once you get one they have a p4. t3476 and guard usually can't win massive assault (guard being pushed back by infantry and such). katy is cool but somewhat inconsistant if the ennemy do not spam closeby teamweapons or blob. plus katy need protection (depending of map)

" I think AT Partisans pretty much hard counter 222's"

- did it the other day. pop atpartisan near - throw atnade (which is kinda costly if you go penals) - damaged engine 222 roll faster than atpartisan (they aim-walk-aim-walk but do not shoot due to animation being slow). there is chance map wont favor partisan choice. also if vehicule stay on houses free side of map... atpartisan aren't fit to run forward thru infantry either (Pgran style).

I ain't there to bitch, i want truth to stop gettin ass-spanked xD

I'm trying this strat lately where opening up with a conscript then 2-3 Penals and going 2 Guards into T-70. The thing is 222s are really hard to deal with, it's fine when i get my T-70 but until then i bleed a lot of MP trying to kill it. I just try avoid it until i get the T-70 but 222 can go around map denying harassments. That's the first issue.


Second one is that when i do survive until late game LMG Grens just wreck penals, I thought about a sniper to deal with this and maybe that's the answer but again the 222s just don't let it survive to late game. Every time i get a sniper to bleed him early, double 222s can just kill it and run away while guards can't even kill a 222.


So any ideas about how to deal with this?

Can you upload a replay? I'm actually looking for advice on how to deal with Guards+Sniper combo as Wehr, lol. The sniper picks off grens pretty fast, and 3 man squad does not stick around for a while. I tried attacking his sniper with 222, but he always has a Guard squad nearby, never retreats the sniper, always moves them away to make sure the guards are between the 222 and the sniper. The guards dont move, just drain the health of the 222 until i cant risk sticking around any longer. Maybe 444 is different, but then you got to keep 2 Guards nearby i guess.

The other problem is that it feels like there is A LOT of rng variance with 222s and Gaurds. Ive seen my 222 miss all rounds in 3 consecutive volleys against guards. I have also seen Guards' ptrs hit dirt for a bit and then all of the sudden both ptrs shots landed and my 3 man gren squad fell apart into kibbles and bits.

Anyway, we are in different leagues - but thats my experience.

In my Opinon, mines are SU best friends :3. Mine key points early specialy where his 222 will come try to predict and to plan ahead where to catch him and close pocket. Penals+Guards are awsome combo. 3 Guards when vet up and upgraded will reck everyone. So use penals to harash and push as much to get those points to spawn them. Also SU76 is great tool. you get 3 Su76 ( they are cheap as fck) you have penals to go first than you have guards to follow and you have su76 to support against vehicles or to barage area against infantry.

Don't get DP-28s on Guards until you need the AI. They come with the PTRS and Button is not what it used to be. The munitions are most likely better spent elsewhere when resource use is critical.

Also never chase 222s with guards. PTRS have a 1 second aim time. They will never be able to stop and aim for long enough. However, if you hold them still they will be more effective at preventing a 222 from rushing a sniper or something.

Guards are a preventative measure, a deterrent if you will, not hunter-killers.

I think your problem is opening with T1 rather than T2.

The 222 is essentially the counter to T1 starts (penals and snipers)

To be competent in the mid-late game all you really need is 1-2 penal with a flamer on it and conscripts to meatshield.



Now that you have more conscripts you can AT nade, and support your at gun better. If you pre-made the AT gun expecting 222's but don't see any, oh well you can still barrage MG's and destroy cover or recap points with it