Idea: OKW - The second Ostheer

Why cant volks pick up weapons after upgrade? Its retarded

I survived the point with make OKW oshteer again

I surived the point with cheap forward retreat point


BUT GIVING VOLKS 60 MG34 UPGRADE WAS TOO MUCH EVEN FOR ME

IM SORRY BUT NO FOR ME FORGET IT

Haha

I survived the point with make OKW oshteer again

I surived the point with cheap forward retreat point


BUT GIVING VOLKS 60 MG34 UPGRADE WAS TOO MUCH EVEN FOR ME

IM SORRY BUT NO FOR ME FORGET IT

You should survive the point of updating your English as well.

It's really not bad at all. Punctuation is all that's off actually.

Not to mention I doubt English is his first language being Slovakian and all.

And by the way, the lmg34 is powerful as crap. Giving it to volks would be the stock equivalent of rifles with m1919s.

It's really not bad at all. Punctuation is all that's off actually.

Not to mention I doubt English is his first language being Slovakian and all.

And by the way, the lmg34 is powerful as crap. Giving it to volks would be the stock equivalent of rifles with m1919s.

I thought the LMG 34 is supposed to be weaker than LMG 42? I mean, historically, it is... Oh wait, what am I thinking! This is CoH2! 

If anyone can show me the stats of LMG 34 and m1919, LMG 42, I would love to rethink my suggestion. The reason I suggest Volk get LMG 34 since I give Ober double Schreck (According to change 5) and I want to give Volks something that will help them in long-range fight and the only thing I can think off that OKW has non-doc is the LMG 34. I was thinking of giving them 2 G43s but those are just for Panzerfusilliers only.‎

I thought the LMG 34 is supposed to be weaker than LMG 42? I mean, historically, it is... Oh wait, what am I thinking! This is CoH2! 

If anyone can show me the stats of LMG 34 and m1919, LMG 42, I would love to rethink my suggestion. The reason I suggest Volk get LMG 34 since I give Ober double Schreck and I want to give Volks something that will help them in long-range fight and the only thing I can think off that OKW has non-doc is the LMG 34. I was thinking of giving them 2 G43s but those are just for Panzerfusilliers only.‎

The lmg34 has about 50% more dps than the lmg42. It would be insanely broken on volks.

Cruzz's dps calculator is pretty accurate, I think. https://2bba94de3a7287a91f367636aefa4ab1a57e0d78-www.googledrive.com/host/0B7gwy65JLbSRUW4ySm0tRnB5azA#

A version equivalent to DP-28s would probably work though.

The lmg34 has about 50% more dps than the lmg42. It would be insanely broken on volks.

Cruzz's dps calculator is pretty accurate, I think. https://2bba94de3a7287a91f367636aefa4ab1a57e0d78-www.googledrive.com/host/0B7gwy65JLbSRUW4ySm0tRnB5azA#

Oh......
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So... LMG 42? ... or 2 G43s then? ... Do we have anything else helps at long-range for Axis? I mean, again, StG44s upgrade is an overall buff for Volk, but it just seem kinda contradict to the Volks' theme: Give a long-range unit 2 medium-to-close-range weapons.

Why cant volks pick up weapons after upgrade? Its retarded

Also, this. Sometimes Bazookas and Bars just lying around, calling me to pick them up, but why Volks can't! It makes me feel like i'm an assh*le who consider Allies weapon to be too crap to pick up.

OKW could work as is. It's just that Relic is still making design-changes this late into the game's release cycle and it's important to constantly tweak for balance if you make such drastic changes. It's clear OKW is underpowered right now. They made daring design decisions; they just need to follow up and balance the faction.

You should survive the point of updating your English as well.

Not all of us are native speakers

Well I do play Ostheer, but the faction just seems too fragile. Their concept and the faction as a whole are great, but too fragile for me to actually handle them. ‎

If the problem is Ostheer, then fix Ostheer. You don't go off and revamp some other faction with it's own independent design system into it's ideal image. You just end up ruining a second faction while ignoring the first factions' issues.

If the problem is Ostheer, then fix Ostheer. You don't go off and revamp some other faction with it's own independent design system into it's ideal image. You just end up ruining a second faction while ignoring the first factions' issues.

I didn't say Ostheer is the problem. Ostheer's unit compositions in tiers/tech structures are very much standard (With the exception of the lack of light vehicles). The problem here is actually OKW in their unit compositions. For example:‎

- Right now, Obers are "too little too late" when being bought since it's too late into the game and buying them would just not that efficient. Meanwhile, as Ostheer, you can buy a pair of them, make them AT infantry later on while still have an AI-power impact earlier on since they come right after BP1.

- Sturmpioneers are carrying too many duties: engineer, mine-clearing/building-clearing (doctrinal flamethrower) and AT infantry. Meanwhile, Ostheer's pioneer concentrate on engineer and mine-clearing/building-clearing (non-doc) only since Panzergrenadiers already play the AT role.

- As OKW, going either Tier 2 (Med HQ) or Tier 3 (Mec HQ) would be very risky due to the disadvantages being too huge, in my opinion: Go Med, you risk being overwhelmed by LVs while go Mec, you risk your infantries' field presence and preservation (You will have to pay quite a lot of MU for Sturm's med packs, which consider long term would bleed your MU dry). Meanwhile, Ostheer teching just very standard: Go both Tier 1 and Tier 2 then you can either go Tier 3 and wait for Tier 4 since Tier 1 and 2 already provide you with enough equipments to fight (AT weapon, Elite AI/AT infantry, mobile reinforement platform). The problems Ostheer has would just be no FRP and their units being fragile. That's it! The rest are fine.‎

The main reason why I propose these changes is because I want OKW to have a more standard and less risky teching just by changing some role and unit positions in the tiers/tech buildings. Right now, they seems to be facing the highest risk and being most vulnerable when teching up, in my opinion.‎

Not all of us are native speakers

That's your excuse? I learned English from Cartoon Network, Games and Movies, not my teachers at school or at my kindergarden, so I have to thank those 3 along with the great wide Internet for the level of my English today.

If you want to improve, you can, question is if you have the desire for it, like I said the great wide internet provides a plethora of options.

Plus you're a streamer, right? The better you know English the better people will understand what you're saying. Sadly the world doesn't speak Serbian.

That's your excuse? I learned English from Cartoon Network, Games and Movies, not my teachers at school or at my kindergarden, so I have to thank those 3 along with the great wide Internet for the level of my English today.

If you want to improve, you can, question is if you have the desire for it, like I said the great wide internet provides a plethora of options.

Plus you're a streamer, right? The better you know English the better people will understand what you're saying. Sadly the world doesn't speak Serbian.

I´m not streamer actually.

And yes I learnt my native language from catoons movies and family too, you know XD

Btw I´m also reading books in english, but uderstanding english and actually speaking is a lot difference thing

I didn't say Ostheer is the problem. Ostheer's unit compositions in tiers/tech structures are very much standard (With the exception of the lack of light vehicles). The problem here is actually OKW in their unit compositions.

No, the problem is you want OKW to be like Ostheer, rather than just making Ostheer be the sort of Axis faction you desire. That is either the problem with the Axis faction, or your problem with how they work and how you want them to. OKW design might not be perfect or god forbid non-standard, but that's a fundamental difference to playing that faction that not only I like about it, but sort of the reason why it was made and sold to players like me in the first place- it's not like Ostheer.

The main reason why I propose these changes is because I want OKW to have a more standard and less risky teching just by changing some role and unit positions in the tiers/tech buildings. Right now, they seems to be facing the highest risk and being most vulnerable when teching up, in my opinion.‎

And I am pretty sure that I'm not the only one that doesn't like the idea of buying an Axis faction only to have it changed to work just like another Axis faction. I believe the entire (selling) point of OKW is to not be like Ostheer.

What you want is to make an Ostheer that does not have fragile squads and does not lack light tanks. Seeing as OKW has both of what you want and just lack the tech design of the former, it's no surprise what you're trying to do.

You're also not going to solve the teching issue assuming it is an issue, by simply making the units swapped about an changed to operate like Ostheer equivalents. That's like saying your truck's engine problems will be solved if only you made it look and sound like a racecar.
While I agree that their teching structure has highest risk and vulnerabilities relative to other factions, I believe that is the point of HQ trucks. If you want to reduce risk and vulnerabilities, then perhaps the better way is to simply buff undeployed HQ trucks?

You're also not going to solve the teching issue assuming it is an issue, by simply making the units swapped about an changed to operate like Ostheer equivalents. That's like saying your truck's engine problems will be solved if only you made it look and sound like a racecar.
While I agree that their teching structure has highest risk and vulnerabilities relative to other factions, I believe that is the point of HQ trucks. If you want to reduce risk and vulnerabilities, then perhaps the better way is to simply buff undeployed HQ trucks?

OK, the Ostheer thing, just put it aside. Just put it aside for a moment, ok?
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OK? Good, now let's just talk about the changes I proposed. So if you play OKW, you will have 2 choices: either go Med HQ or Mec HQ (Go both would be suicide so scratch that, ya?)

If you go Med HQ, you will be better at preserving your units and field presence. However, you have literally no good AT units and no vehicles field presence: Raketens just for ambushing and only work well in pair while Sturms is mostly use as mine-clearing since upgrade them with Schreck would be too risky; the Flak HQ is also too risky to buy since it's too costly and perform well only to infantry. Agree? So that's why I proposed change 5 which is move Ober to Med HQ and give them double Schrecks (Simutaneously remove Schreck from Sturm and give them non-doc flamethrower so they are better at clearing building while removes Volks' incendiary grenade and give Volks old grenade back) and buff the Flak HQ according to change 6. This way, you'll have a more reliable/mobile AT unit than actually can be specialized in it, rather than Sturm doing all the hard work.

If you go Mec HQ, you will have a chance in dictating the LVs warfare: early Luchs, Puma and Stuka. However, what about your infantries' field presence? Without the FRP from the Med HQ and the medics to heal your troops, you will be having quite a rough time in maintaining them on the front. Also, the Stuka in this tier seems rather odd. You can get it earlier than any other factions while forcing those who went Med HQ to back tech to the tier that good at mid-game just for the Stuka (after getting Schwerer). Therefore, to help these two problems, I add in the SdKfz 251 half-track to help OKW maintaining their infantries on the front while moving the Stuka to tier 4 so it come by the same time as other factions' mobile arty while allow players that go Med can still gain access to it without having to back tech (All according to change 8).

There, you see, I moved some units, I changed some roles to help OKW picking tiers more effectively. By doing like above, you won't get annihilate by LVs rush tactic or any of those other cheesy tactics that exploiting OKW's "vulnerability" ("vulnerabilities" here are the lack of tools to be able to deal with different threats, which lead to them being overrun by cheesy tactics, NOT the truck structures' survivabilities).
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OK, now imagine the unit compositions inside all tech structures. Just imagine what units are inside different tech trucks... Seems similar to something?... That's it! It seems similar to the Ostheer's unit compositions in tech buildings!
And that, my friend, is why I named it the second Ostheer.
‎
Probably the similarities seem quite lackluster which lead to all of these "misconfusions". My apologies. I wasn't truly think of the name when I wrote the post so sorry...‎

I would agree, especially when you consider that USF in comparison gets three free units- the officer squads that allow for map presence as well as unique abilities; OKW for their part used to get "free" abilities but only once their trucks were deployed; and the immobility and locality of these abilities (which aren't unique in themselves either- they are basically the idle passive versions of Sturmpioniers repair and medkits). This also means that USF players by virtue of teching to T4 and getting Major "for free" also gets FRP for free.
Now of coures you can say they are only free the first time you tech up, but that's the same excuse for the OKW trucks, but unlike officer squads, an OKW player absolutely needs HQ trucks up and running; they don't require 0 Fuel when you deploy a T4 for the second time.

If it costs something as well as requiring teching up first to actually get, it's not free. It's as free as a tank that comes with pintle MG already.

USF officers and their abilities are "free" but OKW AA on its truck is not free.

¿?

USF officers and their abilities are "free" but OKW AA on its truck is not free.

¿?

Dude? I think you're in the wrong post. I mean, we aren't talking about the Schwerer and the USF's officers here.‎

If you go Med HQ, you will be better at preserving your units and field presence. However, you have literally no good AT units and no vehicles field presence...
If you go Mec HQ, you will have a chance in dictating the LVs warfare: early Luchs, Puma and Stuka.

I believe the infantry support/ light vehicle warfare already happens with current OKW setup. In fact the original OKW makeup, where Volksgrenadiers can upgrade to panzerschrecks, worked too well that they gave it to Sturmpioniers as a nerf; prior to the current design, OKW were basically the blobschrecks of the game; now USF with their Riflemen blobs are the new A-move norm.
I don't see how giving Sturmpioniers flamers and Obersoldaten panzerschrecks to mimic Pioniers and Panzergrenadiers respectively changes anything. Ostheer's unit design and teching work well because you got good capabilities balanced out by small squads. What you have here are good capabilities but no longer with the fragile squad drawback. Specifically, Panzergrenadiers are not backed up by5-man squad mainline infantry; Osttruppen squads are great help due to their larger squad size. Now imagine if Ostheer had 5-man Grenadiers. Got it? Good, because I just demonstrated to you that you might as well just change Ostheer itself to get your ideal faction, AND also demonstrated how much more (over)powerful they would be under this change.

OK, now imagine the unit compositions inside all tech structures. Just imagine what units are inside different tech trucks... Seems similar to something?... That's it! It seems similar to the Ostheer's unit compositions in tech buildings!
And that, my friend, is why I named it the second Ostheer.

3. Volksgrenadiers: Replace 2 StG44s package LMG 42 or 2 G43s.‎

And here we delve into the problems with changing OKW units and affecting their doctrines: This change makes Volks the same as Panzerfusiliers from Breakthrough Doctrine. Also by proxy, the change for Obersolaten as AT infantry is countered by their upgrade to infrared StG44s via Spec Ops doctrine. The OKW commander design alone makes turning OKW into Ostheer clone nearly impossible to work.
If you want a closer Ostheer infantry style meta you can just give 2x Schecks to Volks as T2 unlock at like 120-150 munitions, have it compete with literally every munitions upgrade/ ability, locks out the StG44 upgrade and allow a more versatile Volks build order. There, we just turned Volks into Grenadiers + Panzergrenadiers without reshuffling anything. If you want a Grenadiers and Panzergrenadiers setup, you merely train 2x Volks squads and give them different upgrades. Seeing as you're going to be needing multiple Volks squads since the alternative is T4 or a more expensive builder unit, you might as well just give the versatile options to the most common OKW squad in the game.
In regards to Obersoldaten, like any squad in the current game version they will spawn out of their respective tier building. This means that at T2 (and presumably at lowered cost) they can pop up at the front lines wherever T2 is set up, presenting a big problem to balance. At least through T4, their arrival is rather late to the party, and their high cost prohibits them from being a common sight in any match.
Which leads me to my last (or actually first) point: the biggest difference OKW's tech structure from Ostheer's is the HQ trucks themselves, which despite being the primary foundation of the faction design and thus their teching structure, you deliberately avoid to address. Unlike Ostheer, a major strategic factor in OKW's success/ failure is preserving OKW trucks. Here there are two linked yet separate issues: first, OKW trucks can and are encouraged to be deployed outside the HQ sector to provide close benefits to your army- by doing so they risk being destroyed and therefore lost to enemy action, which deprives the player from building units.

Given how the OKW is designed and what it's intended design goals are, making he units operate like Ostheer won't work. This ultimately is what makes making them a Ostheer clone a dumb idea. If you want to solve this problem you simply have to think outside the proverbial design bubbles that most Ostheer fans need to get out of.

That's your excuse? I learned English from Cartoon Network, Games and Movies, not my teachers at school or at my kindergarden, so I have to thank those 3 along with the great wide Internet for the level of my English today.

If you want to improve, you can, question is if you have the desire for it, like I said the great wide internet provides a plethora of options.

Plus you're a streamer, right? The better you know English the better people will understand what you're saying. Sadly the world doesn't speak Serbian.

You shouldn't criticize someone's English if your posts also have a number of errors. Don't shit on Hector.

On topic - OP, I think you had the exact same idea as Relic.